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ralphinal
Guest
So what do you call the pontificating you do towards Catholcs?I agree with Kung; I won’t give God a theology lesson when I stand before His judgment seat.
I only give theology lessons to Calvinists
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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Reformed
Guest
But the chain of salvation is never broken in Romans 8. It seems we are making a distinction between the elect and non-elect. Would you agree that God will save only the elect. And those who apostate and die show themselves to be the non-elect?
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, [7] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - rom 8
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
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TriuneUnity
Guest
Pontificating…but don’t worry, it’s not infallibleSo what do you call the pontificating you do towards Catholcs?
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TriuneUnity
Guest
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Reformed
Guest
I was on the Roman Road and took that detour at the fork on the road.I believe in biblical and Lutheran theology. I’m not going to worry whether that lines up with Roman Catholicism or not. My viewpoints do not revolve around being as non-Roman Catholic as possible. If they’re right about falling away from the faith, then kudos to them. You believing in the Trinity must mean you’re on the Roman road
Do you see the two guys who are wearing the armor of God? Well, they took the same detour that I did.http://brickfields.org.uk/images_proof/roman7.jpg
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TriuneUnity
Guest
You should’ve made a right toward Wittenberg…those left’s take a hard turn to Geneva. It’s kind of a “limited” option hahaI was on the Roman Road and took that detour at the fork on the road.
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Reformed
Guest
LOL…that’s okay because the Wittenberg and Geneva roads merge later on down that narrow road. Guess who’s in the center? And look who’s at the bottom?
http://www.americanvision.org/images/reformers.jpg
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sandusky
Guest
As evidence, but without the atonement?—not so.
ISTM that it’s your opinion that only you can look to the atonement for salvation; is that correct?
And they’re whitewashed tombs; they’re atheists.
The atonement saves without faith? Eternally? How?
They certainly summon spirits, as the scripture states.
Nothing they’re not already aware of. :tiphat:
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Reformed
Guest
I’m the wild boar on the top. I think the bottom guy with the nice smile is a follower of Luther.**Thank you for posting your portrait Reformed. I must say you have good teeth, very good. do you bite?
When are you going to answer Michel’s question?**
Who’s Michel? (just kidding)
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TriuneUnity
Guest
But is looking at the atonement enough to demonstrate election?
Yes.
True; and they can’t use it as evidence of anything. Switch that scenario to a reprobate who has deluded himself into thinking he is saved because he is outwardly performing good works. You can see, then, that works are no means of determining one’s standing with God.
The person must believe the message. The person’s believing has nothing to do with the grounds of their salvation. It is passive.
Christ’s work is objectively true because the reality of God’s verdict takes place completely in the realm of God, entirely apart from man’s involvement. Man has nothing to do with it, and man’s subjective perception or opinion does not change it. There are two causes for man’s salvation: (1) the grace of God and (2) the merits of Jesus Christ. Neither of these two causes has anything to do with the participation of sinful human beings. Both causes exist completely in God’s sphere.
From the cross Jesus said “It is finished” (John 19:30). What is finished is his life of active obedience, his passion and suffering, all his work of bearing and atoning for the sin of the world. This truth of Jesus’ completed work stands as an objective truth, whether a human being believes it or not. There is nothing that any human being can do to change what happened outside Jerusalem nearly 2,000 years ago. No doubt or disbelief can change the fact that the lifeless Lord Jesus Christ came back to life on Easter Sunday and left behind an empty tomb. Jesus’ triumphal cry from the cross, “It is finished,” stands forever as the objective declaration that Christ’s work of salvation is complete.
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sandusky
Guest
That begs the question: Is looking at, or doing anything enough to demonstrate election, or any true belief if you don’t believe in election?
Neither is a rigidly strict theology a determiner of one’s standing with God. At some point, the rubber of your theology must meet the road and be put to a practical test.
You cannot discount the experiential aspect of faith.How do you practically demonstrate faith in the atonement? Put the way you’ve been putting it, do you even need to demonstrate your faith?
OK
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but what purpose does it serve if no one believes it?
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TriuneUnity
Guest
No; Christ is the mirror of our election.
Absolutely.
Demonstrating faith is natural to possessing faith. It is like water to a fish in that it is naturally done.
What would be the point of entertaining such a hypothetical? Since God determines whom the elect are, it was part of the plan of redemption that someone would believe the message.
The subjective (faith) aspect of salvation is not the grounds of our justification. It is receiving that which is already objectively true.
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Cinette
Guest
***The blind leading the blind!
***
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Cinette
Guest
Cazayoux of course - remember that question you have been avoiding?I’m the wild boar on the top. I think the bottom guy with the nice smile is a follower of Luther.
***Am I being a thorn in your side?
***
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cazayoux
Guest
Cinette … thank you for the help in not letting him slide on these questions…
FOR REFORMED
CAZAYOUX posed a question to you more than once and I have been looking out for your response. You are either avoiding the question or you are unable to do so. Which is it?
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
michel
:bowdown: Please answer :bowdown2:
FOR REFORMED
CAZAYOUX posed a question to you more than once and I have been looking out for your response. You are either avoiding the question or you are unable to do so. Which is it?
- Can God give power to others?
- What does Jesus mean when he tells them what to do regarding sins?
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
michel
:bowdown: Please answer :bowdown2:
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Reformed
Guest
Here is the uniform testimony of those infamous Protestant Reformers:***The blind leading the blind!
John 9:25 (edited)
They answered, “… One thing we do know, that though we were blind, now we see through the light of the Scriptures.”
http://www.americanvision.org/images/reformers.jpg
“We are on that narrow road and not on the Roman Road.”
http://brickfields.org.uk/images_proof/roman7.jpg
The Whole Armor of God
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak. - Eph 6
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cazayoux
Guest
Those pesky conditionals and commands keep showing up…
The Whole Armor of God
Eph 6
Finally, **be strong **in the Lord and in the strength of his might. **Put on **the whole armor of God, that you *may *be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore **take up **the whole armor of God, that *you may be able *to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, **having fastened **on the belt of truth, **and having put **on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, **having put on **the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances **take up **the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and **take the **helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, **praying at all times **in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words *may *be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.
The question, as is usually the case in our conversations, HOW do we put on the armor of God?
This passage explains what we must DO, and what is POSSIBLE (not guaranteed).
michel
The Whole Armor of God
Eph 6
Finally, **be strong **in the Lord and in the strength of his might. **Put on **the whole armor of God, that you *may *be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore **take up **the whole armor of God, that *you may be able *to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, **having fastened **on the belt of truth, **and having put **on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, **having put on **the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances **take up **the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and **take the **helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, **praying at all times **in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words *may *be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.
The question, as is usually the case in our conversations, HOW do we put on the armor of God?
This passage explains what we must DO, and what is POSSIBLE (not guaranteed).
michel
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Reformed
Guest
We must do through whom?
I Am the True Vine (Jesus Christ)
15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, [1] for the servant [2] does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.
- John 15
3:1 Finally, my brothers, [1] rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you is no trouble to me and is safe for you.
2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God [2] and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, [3] blameless. 7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Straining Toward the Goal
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.
Phil 3
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cazayoux
Guest
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sandusky
Guest
The mirror?
But it’s only valid in those who have faith in the atonement, and not for those who must “look inward” or to their works for assurance of their standing with God?
That’s why I said perhaps I’m misunderstanding.
Of course they’re not, but they are a valid means of assurance; Christ and the apostles cited objective and experiential (subjective) guidelines for assurance.
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