There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

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mikeledes said:
While the center of Christianity is the person and work of Christ, we believe that Christ did establish a visible Church.

God Bless,
Michael
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I can agree with that statement. But even our definition of the visible church contradicts with each other. After the Council of Trent, the Roman Catholic Church is no longer part of that visible church since through her dogma, she rejected the biblical gospel with Trent.
 
REFORMED …

Since you do not regard the Catholic Church as true, let’s step back and look at the bible.

Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to men.
Is this power from Jesus fulfilled in your church?

michel
 
Reformed said:
I can agree with that statement. But even our definition of the visible church contradicts with each other. After the Council of Trent, the Roman Catholic Church is no longer part of that visible church since through her dogma, she rejected the biblical gospel with Trent.
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Was she ever part of the visible Church, considering that what was upheld in Trent was basically what the Church always taught?

God Bless,
Michael
 
cazayoux said:
REFORMED …

Since you do not regard the Catholic Church as true, let’s step back and look at the bible.

Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to men.
Is this power from Jesus fulfilled in your church?

michel
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Please see and answer post 369.
 
Reformed said:
After the Council of Trent, the Roman Catholic Church is no longer part of that visible church since through her dogma, she rejected the biblical gospel with Trent.
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So do I take this statement to mean that up until Trent, you DO regard the Catholic Church as the church that Jesus founded?

michel
 
cazayoux said:
So do I take this statement to mean that up until Trent, you DO regard the Catholic Church as the church that Jesus founded?

michel
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The church that Jesus founded goes way before His incarnation and includes the remnant in the Old Testament. Consider Abraham.
 
TriuneUnity said:
If I no longer believe in said promises.
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Okay. Loss of faith in Lutheranism is not just caused by a formal and explict renunciation of Christ (“I no longer believe in Christ”), but is also caused by grave sin. How do you know that, after committing grave sin, you have regained the gift of faith?

God Bless,
Michael
 
cazayoux said:
The biblical Jesus Christ IS the key and he founded a visible church.
That church IS still here today, as Jesus promised it would be.

Again, if you were basing your faith on Jesus, you would answer my questions regarding the faith you practice today and if it includes Jesus giving power to men to forgive sins.
If Jesus is your foundation, then why doesn’t your faith do as He prescribed?

Jesus set up a way for men to forgive sins.

The church Jesus founded would recognize this.
Does yours?

michel
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Jesus did much more than set up a way for men to forgive sins. Christ actually accomplished salvation in His incarnation. Men’s participation is the proclamation and preaching of the gospel of God’s grace about His Son. The Holy Spirit does the work in men to hear the gospel effectually through regeneration. So, where does the Catholic Priest come into play in this senario? Consider the Scriptures before turning to the teachings of Rome.

The Light of the Gospel

4:1 Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, [1] we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants [2] for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor
 
Reformed said:
Jesus did much more than set up a way for men to forgive sins. Christ actually accomplished salvation in His incarnation. Men’s participation is the proclamation and preaching of the gospel of God’s grace about His Son. The Holy Spirit does the work in men to hear the gospel effectually through regeneration. So, where does the Catholic Priest come into play in this senario?
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🙂 … and still no answer to the actual question.

***Jesus ***set up a way for men to forgive sins.

The church Jesus founded would recognize this.
Does yours?

michel
 
mikeledes said:
Okay. Loss of faith in Lutheranism is not just caused by a formal and explict renunciation of Christ (“I no longer believe in Christ”), but is also caused by grave sin. How do you know that, after committing grave sin, you have regained the gift of faith?

God Bless,
Michael
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By remembering that I am baptized and that Christ has already paid for my sin.
 
Reformed said:
The church that Jesus founded goes way before His incarnation and includes the remnant in the Old Testament. Consider Abraham.
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Actually, since we believe in scripture, we can see Jesus saying he WILL found a church… as in … he hadn’t yet.

Matt 16:18
[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock **I ***will *****build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

michel
 
cazayoux said:
Actually, since we believe in scripture, we can see Jesus saying he WILL found a church… as in … he hadn’t yet.

Matt 16:18
[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock **I ***will *****build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

michel
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Matthew 16 is not a Roman Catholic proof text for the catholic position. Build your Faith upon God being the rock, and not on a mere man.

Psalm 18:2
The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalm 18:31
For who is God, but the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?—
 
Reformed, you have an issue with answering direct questions.
You sidestep and divert, duck and weave.

Below is a repost of #99, which you have not yet answered.

Please do not point me to another post of yours which also does not answer either question.
Just answer these two questions.
PLEASE.
Originally Posted by **Reformed **
Yes, Scripture bears testimony that only God can forgive sins. We as Christians have the ministry of reconcilation which points to the Gospel of Grace of Jesus Christ (2 Cor 5). But we only proclaim the great good news of God, and God is the one who forgive sins alone.
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  1. Do you deny God the power to give power to others?
    The apostles cast out demons as proof.
  2. So what IS Jesus telling the apostles to do? What does Jesus mean when he tells them what to do regarding sins?
John 20:21-23
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

michel
 
cazayoux said:
Reformed, you have an issue with answering direct questions.
You sidestep and divert, duck and weave.

Below is a repost of #99, which you have not yet answered.

Please do not point me to another post of yours which also does not answer either question.
Just answer these two questions.
PLEASE.
  1. Do you deny God the power to give power to others?
    The apostles cast out demons as proof.
  2. So what IS Jesus telling the apostles to do? What does Jesus mean when he tells them what to do regarding sins?
John 20:21-23
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

michel
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http://www.lovesanimals.com/images/animals/monkey/funny_monkey.jpg

Have a great day!
 
Reformed said:
Matthew 16 is not a Roman Catholic proof text for the catholic position. Build your Faith upon God being the rock, and not on a mere man.
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NOT the question at hand.
You are sidestepping again.

You said:
The church that Jesus founded goes way before His incarnation and includes the remnant in the Old Testament. Consider Abraham.

I showed Matt 16:18 to highlight that which is bold, underlined.

Matt 16:18
[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

We can discuss who or what the rock is in another thread.
Addess the underlinced text in light of your previous statement.

michel
 
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