Sorry for all these questions. I’m trying to understand what Lutheranism believes in this matter and how Lutheran assurance is different from Calvinist assurance. What occurs when an adult is baptized?
Help…what do you mean? Maybe Martin Luther did not reform enough in his lifetime in his undestanding of salvaton by grace alone through faith alone? Are we saved before or after our obdience to be baptized in water?
Amen, mikel.
It is an error to think that just because God uses a means to impart His grace it is a meritorious work and that the gift that is received through those means is not really a gift. Take for example the following verse:
2 Timothy 1:6
6For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
The gift of God is in Timothy through the laying on of Paul’s hands. Does this mean that what Timothy received is not really a gift - even though it is described as such - because he utilized a means (“laying on of hands”) to receive it? Besides, baptismal regeneration was unanimoulsy upheld by all of the Church Fathers ( including Augustine), upheld in the Coucnil of Orange, and was the universal and historic teaching until challenged by John Calvin.
God Bless,
Michael
Everyone who hears the Gospel has the “chance” to respond to, and does in fact respond to the Gospel either negatively or positively.
What isn’t being understood, and by whom?
A person can be justified by delusional faith?
God bless,
Michael
That’s what I’m trying to find out.Not a problem.
Well, the delusional faith wouldn’t be an instrument of justification, but what if the delusioned person at some point had faith… they would be justified…and then fall away.
God bless,
Michael
But isn’t delusional faith delusive?
As an adult, before, when the person is given faith. We are, however, saved continually. You do realize Calvin referred to baptism as a means of grace, yes?
Yes; but who knows if the deluded person did, at some point, believe?
Then everyone is given the gift of faith? Is that part of double predestination? What happens if someone who is not of the elect chooses to follow Christ with all of his being?
Let me ask it this way: do you comprehend 100% of your faith? Can you fully understand everything about God and his plan for salvation and how you fit into it?
No, I am saying that we cannot mix and match the three different “rock” metaphors used in Scripture. Arguing “Peter can’t be the rock because God is the rock” makes no more sense than arguing “Abraham can’t be the rock because God is the rock.” They are three diverse “rock” metaphors. None is inconsistent with either of the others. God is the rock of our salvation, Peter is the rock on which the Church is built, Abraham is the rock from which the Jewish people were hewn. None of those conflict.
Adams sinned.
Also, to refer back to the original context of this discussion:
It is the same with sin. I can justify any sin that I have ever commited, even to the point where it was GOOD for me to do it. We are all good at lying to ourselves about all kinds of things, and sin is one. Our standing with God in general is another.
Who knows if anyone who professes belief truly believes or not?
Buy what if he was baptized in his delusion?
Really, the promise was made to the seed of Abraham. And the church is built on the testimony of Peter as Jesus as the Christ. Please consider Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 in regards to the true Jew.
15Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"[g] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. - Gal 3
We finally agree on something! 