T
tenderlynew
Guest
'cept this one!
- Status
T
tenderlynew
Guest
thank you! I am still recovering from illness but I will come back to this as the issue is painfully close to my heart
J
Jaberwocky
Guest
It is certainly an important issue worth discussing. Do not lose heart. I pray you will get well soon as well! God bless!
T
tenderlynew
Guest
Thank you. Also, something that people hesitate to recognize here (regarding the argument that a baby is paradoxically “saved” by abortion), is that the mother is often harmed desperately by losing her child, often, maybe even always, not knowing what she is doing. It is a difficult subject to approach, as the mother-child bond is so unique, so precious in the Lord’s sight, especially in those fragile moments prior to birth. (tears)
T
tenderlynew
Guest
What I’m saying is, not to overlook the harm to the baby (its gruesome death), but to recognize that mother and child are one in a certain way, and that harm to the baby is harm to the mother; one and the same thing.
So how about legal warfare? Mothers considering abortion should be committed to a psychiatric ward for planning to harm themselves. How 'bout that? This can be documented through the records of such organizations as Project Rachel.
SOMETHING has to be done here, Catholics and other Christians against abortion have backed off, tricked and intimidated by the ploys of moral liberalism in all its dangerous sloth.
“Everything works together for the good for those called according to the purposes of the Lord.” And my …experience…led me to realize I was a Christian when I had been told all my life that I was not but left me in peril and with a block. Sometimes we do battle against evil in whatever way the Lord calls us to do it.
So how about legal warfare? Mothers considering abortion should be committed to a psychiatric ward for planning to harm themselves. How 'bout that? This can be documented through the records of such organizations as Project Rachel.
SOMETHING has to be done here, Catholics and other Christians against abortion have backed off, tricked and intimidated by the ploys of moral liberalism in all its dangerous sloth.
“Everything works together for the good for those called according to the purposes of the Lord.” And my …experience…led me to realize I was a Christian when I had been told all my life that I was not but left me in peril and with a block. Sometimes we do battle against evil in whatever way the Lord calls us to do it.
J
Jaberwocky
Guest
As you said, “something” has to be done. That “something” is to inform the ignorant of the truth that it is indeed a baby and also pray for them that God opens their minds to hear the truth.
T
tenderlynew
Guest
yes let’s reinforce this. I will pray it.
T
tenderlynew
Guest
prayed under “for a return to purity and chastity”, my other post from last night:
Please Lord, help us in our ignorance as a society, to overcome the moral sloth that post-war liberalism of the 60’s and 70’s has brought us to, our slide, our moral decay; bring us back to values of decency and purity, and to overcome the lethargy that encloses, turn back the tide, O Lord, in America today, and in other countries that look to us for an example. Please Lord, of all things, correct the folly of politicians in this state-ist system of ours whose life-training is to please, remembering that (quoting my father quoting a famous French (?) commentator on American society, de Toqueville) “if you give every many a vote he will ultimately vote himself more dollars” and, re the “dumming down” of society (also quoting my father), "democracy caters to the lowest common denominator (which is sexual profligacy?) In light of the life and light of Jesus, Lord, who also catered to the least of us, let democracy in America, contrary to my father’s words, find salvation in the simplicity of the common people, especially the simplest and most beautiful thing of all, a woman pregnant, preferably in wedlock, the “best thing” of the OT as shown again and again, the gift of a child to a woman being among the most precious miracle He bestowed, and He chose to show himself to us in this very same fashion, through the gift of a Child, the most precious life ever known, to a poor, humble, and pure woman, different from all of us…
I only have to think of my pet mouse, who was so glum as we, my son an I, sat with her talking; I knew it was babies she wanted…
Have we all gone mad?
Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou amongst women,
and blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now
and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Also, for my father’s soul, as he is a Catholic who became the toy of fools and thinks he lost his faith when it is still very much there, he only runs from it, thinking himself wise, fooled by intellectuals. And even at 81, and with brain damage from a stroke, he remains an influential intellectual whose letters are frequently published in a local newspaper. For his reconversion to the faith. He is pro-abortion.
Glory be to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
Please Lord, help us in our ignorance as a society, to overcome the moral sloth that post-war liberalism of the 60’s and 70’s has brought us to, our slide, our moral decay; bring us back to values of decency and purity, and to overcome the lethargy that encloses, turn back the tide, O Lord, in America today, and in other countries that look to us for an example. Please Lord, of all things, correct the folly of politicians in this state-ist system of ours whose life-training is to please, remembering that (quoting my father quoting a famous French (?) commentator on American society, de Toqueville) “if you give every many a vote he will ultimately vote himself more dollars” and, re the “dumming down” of society (also quoting my father), "democracy caters to the lowest common denominator (which is sexual profligacy?) In light of the life and light of Jesus, Lord, who also catered to the least of us, let democracy in America, contrary to my father’s words, find salvation in the simplicity of the common people, especially the simplest and most beautiful thing of all, a woman pregnant, preferably in wedlock, the “best thing” of the OT as shown again and again, the gift of a child to a woman being among the most precious miracle He bestowed, and He chose to show himself to us in this very same fashion, through the gift of a Child, the most precious life ever known, to a poor, humble, and pure woman, different from all of us…
I only have to think of my pet mouse, who was so glum as we, my son an I, sat with her talking; I knew it was babies she wanted…
Have we all gone mad?
Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou amongst women,
and blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now
and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Also, for my father’s soul, as he is a Catholic who became the toy of fools and thinks he lost his faith when it is still very much there, he only runs from it, thinking himself wise, fooled by intellectuals. And even at 81, and with brain damage from a stroke, he remains an influential intellectual whose letters are frequently published in a local newspaper. For his reconversion to the faith. He is pro-abortion.
Glory be to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
J
Jaberwocky
Guest
Amen!
S
sent_by_God
Guest
Nooooo! You were not ill! You were full of divine inspiration! How could you just switch sides like that? You betrayed your creator!
When I read the OP, I actually dared to think for a second that I had finally met another Awakened person. But of course, it was just another false hope raiser. Next time I won’t trust so easily.
J
Jaberwocky
Guest
Stop misleading people. She was upset and she has found her answer. Don’t try to lead her astray.
S
St_Francis
Guest
You obviously have no idea what war really means, or maybe you watched MASH re-runs and think that’s what it’s like. War is not like that. There are lots of videos online about what war is like–you won’t get the experience but maybe you will understand a little bit better why war is a very last resort.
C
Contarini
Guest
No, it would be a case where immoral means could not possibly produce the desired end, so certainly the problem is empty in that case. Only in this-worldly goods does it arise.
Edwin
C
Contarini
Guest
No, there wasn’t.
In part (though it was more complicated than that), and it was a tragic mistake. Look at the way racial injustice persisted long after the Civil War.
You have a rather naive idea of how wars start. People don’t say, “here’s a moral issue, let’s have a war about it.”
There are four ways I can see a “war over abortion” starting (from the prolife side):
- Prolife people take up arms and start trying to shut down abortion clinics by force. This would be a great evil.
- The prolife side gains control of the national government, through legal or illegal means, and then uses federal power to try to shut down abortion, and states resist.
- More likely, prolife states try to ban abortion, and the federal government tries to stop them.
- Prolife nations invade the U.S. in order to stop abortion.
Edwin
T
tenderlynew
Guest
I WAS very ill when I put up the post but I ALSO felt that perhaps it may have been inspired, I am a believer in revelation through illness, not only did I take a course on it but also witness (?)I can’t remember the name of the name of the saint who PRAYED for an illness to become closer to HIM.
Please note that, though I backed off for a bit I came back with a new angle, as there is a practical difficulty with traditional warfare in this matter
T
tenderlynew
Guest
My mother-in-law was the wife of a WWII foot soldier and the sister of an RAF fighter pilot who won the DFC for a flight from Germany to England on one wing. Her position? “We need a good war’”
However it is true that the reality of war TODAY (nuclear warfare, chemical weapons, et cetera) makes traditional warfare a scary scenario.
The truth remains that it is likely, I believe,that the press of too many people does lead to and lend to arguments for abortion.
As the daughter of two WWII English children myself, and a child of the Cold War, I am well aware of the horrors of war even then; also, speaking to some of my parents’ older friends, one in particular referred to the “poignancy” of those times. In OT times everybody was always at war.
???
I stick with my assertion that Catholics, other Christians, and those of conscience who oppose abortion, have been “tricked and intimidated” into submission by the pro-liberal, pro-abortionists, and that maybe something proactive could be done, possibly legally; but rest in hope and trust in the Lord NO MATTER WHAT and in the power of prayer, I did pray directly from my soul before posting that prayer.
???
However it is true that the reality of war TODAY (nuclear warfare, chemical weapons, et cetera) makes traditional warfare a scary scenario.
The truth remains that it is likely, I believe,that the press of too many people does lead to and lend to arguments for abortion.
As the daughter of two WWII English children myself, and a child of the Cold War, I am well aware of the horrors of war even then; also, speaking to some of my parents’ older friends, one in particular referred to the “poignancy” of those times. In OT times everybody was always at war.
???
I stick with my assertion that Catholics, other Christians, and those of conscience who oppose abortion, have been “tricked and intimidated” into submission by the pro-liberal, pro-abortionists, and that maybe something proactive could be done, possibly legally; but rest in hope and trust in the Lord NO MATTER WHAT and in the power of prayer, I did pray directly from my soul before posting that prayer.
???
M
mikekle
Guest
You are 100% right, but the problem is, todays church is not willing to go that far in order to fight what they believe in, nor do I believe most of the parish members would be either. They are too concerned with following mans laws.
S
ServantPD
Guest
An oppressive system would be one where people couldn’t decide wheter to live life intensely and die sooner (Hell is simply the place where your soul dies out anyway due to lack of connection with God) or live a mild and full life and not dying at all. One doesn’t feel the same as the other, and one may not feel satisfied with the other. That’s why God allowed us to choose how we live, because He Himself made the choice of creating us, and He’s allowing us to do whatever we please with ourselves.
Now, how in the world is that oppressive?
S
sent_by_God
Guest
Her anger was the most justified anger I’ve ever seen! I’m not misleading anyone!
St Francis:
I know what war means! Don’t think just because I’m 15 I don’t know what I’m talking about! BTW I’ve never heard of MASH.
But one would have been justified.
This is essentially the same as people saying “here’s a moral issue, let’s have a war over it”. And no, it wouldn’t.
I thought that by ill you meant mentally ill. If you were physically ill, that has nothing to do with your moral views.
I realize the “practical difficulty”, but I am not suggesting that we get rifles and march on capital hill. I agree that that would be foolish.
Nothing legal is going to win this war for us. How can you use legal means to defeat an enemy who controls the government?
Also, prayer isn’t supposed to be a weapon on it’s own. I have learned from experience that God doesn’t answer a prayer unless the person who raises it is doing everything within their power to make God’s intervention unnecessary.
I agree, it isn’t. But just because we wouldn’t have many proponents doesn’t justify not trying.
M
mikekle
Guest
Well, I see your point, but if something like this was attempted, the first ‘wave’ would be the local police, most of which carry M16s, if people were able to get past this, then I imagine the city/state would send in national guard troops, and then regular military, so unless our side had some serious backing (financial, strategic, defense, weapons, etc), which the church could more than likely provide all of this, but I doubt we would have the numbers needed to actually defeat military troops, and win.
IMO, our side probably have what it takes to get past and defeat local police and maybe national guard, but nothing more unless the church has some allies.
Plus this sort of thing would not really be a war, more like a coup imo, where if the church won, they would tell the state, federal govt we are not going to allow this to go on and will fight back if it is tried, so we really wouldnt be trying to topple the govt, just fighting to stop one particular thing from taking place.
While we are talking about abortion here, I HIGHLY doubt todays church would be willing to fight like they once did for something they believe in, even if it was something much worse than abortion.For example, in the future, I believe there will be time when all christians and catholics are persecuted for their beliefs, and churchs will likely be forced to close down, even in this scenario, I dont see the church as a whole, fighting back, or doing anything more than fighting in a courtroom LOL. This is sad, especially when you look at the history of the church, at one time, they would fight to the death for what they believed in, and even had their version of ‘special forces troops’!!! (certain parts of the crusaders and knights).
- Status