There should be a war...

[St_Francis]

…I know I made myself look like an idiot saying that, but seriously. I have read multiple books on the topic, one of them even the writings of a soldier, and neither lacked realism. Also, with the video game thing I did not mean to imply that I am brave enough to “be a hero”, but I have learned from it at least that a soldier’s skill has little to do with his odds of survival. Also, if I may ask, how do you know so much about war? Do you have multiple uncles in the army, one of whom even died in it? I do.

Members of my families on both sides fought in every war of the 20th century, several of whom I am old enough to have grown up having around. One side of my family is European, the other side long-time US military.

Despite that, when I was young, I was more like you… age brings more understanding not only of war itself but of the effects outside the warzone–the damage to families and society as well as those who leave…

As long as the “fighting” remains on the non-violent plane, we should keep it there. Possibly part of my opinions on the matter come from believing that having God on one’s side is much more helpful than even having a war!

I believe that you are right: we are not fighting hard enough. Where I go wrong is which type of warfare we should engage in. I think we are not praying enough, fasting enough, and that we should be using spiritual weapons rather than relying on our puny man-made weapons.

And there have been battles over the centuries which were won because of the power of prayer, like the battle of Lepanto.

 

[mikekle]

So what is it exactly that you’re suggesting be done, and be specific, because as I’ve read it these last four pages you’re suggesting a war, and most people understand war to involve at least one of the belligerents being a state of some sort. If you are not suggesting we form militias and overthrow the US government, then who exactly are we supposed to wage war against?

I dont think he is talking about overthrowing the govt in anyway, just trying to stop the legalized murder that is going on in this country, this is only 1 issue out of 1000s.

I saw in one of the above posts, it was suggested to win over those who are doing evil, its best to try and win over their hearts and minds…Id like to see how that method would have turned out in the american revolution! Even the constitution says the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots, so people fighting to the death for what they believe in IS part of the american way, if we look back at history, we can see evidence of this many times.

The pro-life camp has tried for years and years to win over hearts and minds to no avail, so what comes next? It all comes down to what people believe in and what they are willing to fight for, this generation has shown it is not willing to fight, maybe the generation you are coming up in will though.

 

[WildCatholic]

I will say, that even though i’m against abortion violent, I wish we would get more active with our tactics and do things like sit ins and blocking entrances. Stuff the hippies did back in the day. Thats as far as i would go

 

[St_Francis]

I will say, that even though i’m against abortion violent, I wish we would get more active with our tactics and do things like sit ins and blocking entrances. Stuff the hippies did back in the day. Thats as far as i would go

Shelbe Steele wrote a book called White Guilt, which explains that the reason those hippie tactics worked was that those in charge saw some truth (real or imagined) in their accusations.

These tactics would not work against the supporters of abortion, who are the intellectual descendants of the ones who used it in the 1960s.

 

[GKC]

I dont think he is talking about overthrowing the govt in anyway, just trying to stop the legalized murder that is going on in this country, this is only 1 issue out of 1000s.

I saw in one of the above posts, it was suggested to win over those who are doing evil, its best to try and win over their hearts and minds…Id like to see how that method would have turned out in the american revolution! Even the constitution says the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots, so people fighting to the death for what they believe in IS part of the american way, if we look back at history, we can see evidence of this many times.

The pro-life camp has tried for years and years to win over hearts and minds to no avail, so what comes next? It all comes down to what people believe in and what they are willing to fight for, this generation has shown it is not willing to fight, maybe the generation you are coming up in will though.

The blood quote is Jefferson, but not from the constitution. It was from a letter: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure”. Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787.

GKC

 

[Skadi]

While I do oppose abortion, I have to say as a non-Christian I doubt I would join such a movement if it was directly lead by Church figures. I believe in separation of church and state and quite frankly I do not trust (mostly protestant) Christian churches with power. If by some miracle they were victorious they wouldnt stop at abortion. Gay marriage gone, Sodomy laws reinstated, and if evangelicals came to power even worse, possibly bans on alcohol, extramarital sex, and other things the government has no right to stop us from doing. If a Christian revolution took over this country I honestly believe they would do whatever in their power they could to infringe apon my right to freedom of religion.

 

[sent_by_God]

St Francis:

They don’t care about killing babies; you think they’d cavil at shotting random pro-lifers if they felt pro-lifers were randomly attacking them?

Most of them don’t know they’re killing babies.

mikekle:

I dont think he is talking about overthrowing the govt in anyway, just trying to stop the legalized murder that is going on in this country, this is only 1 issue out of 1000s.

I saw in one of the above posts, it was suggested to win over those who are doing evil, its best to try and win over their hearts and minds…Id like to see how that method would have turned out in the american revolution! Even the constitution says the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots, so people fighting to the death for what they believe in IS part of the american way, if we look back at history, we can see evidence of this many times.

The pro-life camp has tried for years and years to win over hearts and minds to no avail, so what comes next? It all comes down to what people believe in and what they are willing to fight for, this generation has shown it is not willing to fight, maybe the generation you are coming up in will though.

Thank you

Skadi:

While I do oppose abortion, I have to say as a non-Christian I doubt I would join such a movement if it was directly lead by Church figures. I believe in separation of church and state and quite frankly I do not trust (mostly protestant) Christian churches with power. If by some miracle they were victorious they wouldnt stop at abortion. Gay marriage gone, Sodomy laws reinstated, and if evangelicals came to power even worse, possibly bans on alcohol, extramarital sex, and other things the government has no right to stop us from doing. If a Christian revolution took over this country I honestly believe they would do whatever in their power they could to infringe apon my right to freedom of religion.

• If a revolution were to occur, I don’t think it would be mainly Christian.
• We don’t have religious freedom now, so it would hardly be a step backward if evangelicals took over.

 

[mikekle]

While I do oppose abortion, I have to say as a non-Christian I doubt I would join such a movement if it was directly lead by Church figures. I believe in separation of church and state and quite frankly I do not trust (mostly protestant) Christian churches with power. If by some miracle they were victorious they wouldnt stop at abortion. Gay marriage gone, Sodomy laws reinstated, and if evangelicals came to power even worse, possibly bans on alcohol, extramarital sex, and other things the government has no right to stop us from doing. If a Christian revolution took over this country I honestly believe they would do whatever in their power they could to infringe apon my right to freedom of religion.

Not to change the subject, but alcohol should most definitely be banned!! Talk to any ER staff and ask about all the problems caused by alcohol, yet at the same time, our leaders and law enforcement tell us this is the very reason street drugs are made illegal, to protect the public safety and health, so why does alcohol get a free pass? after all, everything can be used in moderation, I know many people who use Heroin in moderation and function just like anyone else, go to work, have families, etc. IMO, the only reason alcohol is still legal, is because the big tax dollars it brings in and the large companies that produce and distribute it, they have alot of sway on politicians.

 

[St_Francis]

Most of them don’t know they’re killing babies.

While many of those who get abortions may have fallen for their lies, most of the advocates know this; some come right out and admit it and say it doesn’t matter.

]

 

[WildCatholic]

Not to change the subject, but alcohol should most definitely be banned!! Talk to any ER staff and ask about all the problems caused by alcohol, yet at the same time, our leaders and law enforcement tell us this is the very reason street drugs are made illegal, to protect the public safety and health, so why does alcohol get a free pass? after all, everything can be used in moderation, I know many people who use Heroin in moderation and function just like anyone else, go to work, have families, etc. IMO, the only reason alcohol is still legal, is because the big tax dollars it brings in and the large companies that produce and distribute it, they have alot of sway on politicians.

Em we tried banning it. Haven’t you heard of prohibition. Everything was just grand during that time. No one drank any alcohol and all our problems just went away until that evil son of a gun FDR repealed it. now were a nation of drunks Yes alcohol makes a lot of money, but it shouldn’t be taken away. Don’t get me wrong, i don’t think drugs should be legal, but people usually know how to use alcohol. Hard drugs are a different story.

 

[mikekle]

Em we tried banning it. Haven’t you heard of prohibition. Everything was just grand during that time. No one drank any alcohol and all our problems just went away until that evil son of a gun FDR repealed it. now were a nation of drunks Yes alcohol makes a lot of money, but it shouldn’t be taken away. Don’t get me wrong, i don’t think drugs should be legal, but people usually know how to use alcohol. Hard drugs are a different story.

Yep, I know all about prohibition, it didnt work, makes me wonder why they are trying the same exact thing with street drugs…?

You are 100% wrong about peoples use of street drugs compared to alcohol, actually more people abuse alcohol on a daily basis, which results in arrests, ER visits, or other problems for society, This tells me the majority do not know how to use alcohol properly, however with street drugs, many people functioning in society use them every day, and are still able to drive to work, do their job, maintain their lives, etc. ANYTHING can be used in moderation, to say street drugs are not… is foolish.

I have posted new studies, done at a many universities, that show alcohol is actually more dangerous than Heroin. NBC news reported these results too. I find it very odd, with all these studies on alcohol, all the problems it causes for law enforcement, ER staff, etc NOTHING is being suggested, as far as new restrictions, regulations on its use??? IMO, they need to focus more on the substance that is causing the problems, and today, it appears to be alcohol, but with large companies behind them, this usually trumps public safety and health.

I have sent many messages to the US attorney general, KY state attorney general over the past couple years, asking them why nothing is being done about alcohol, yet they go after street drugs like they are the plague, as of today, NO ONE has answered me yet, not 1 single reply!

In my educated guess, its the large alcohol producers stopping any laws against their money maker, plus all the drug money, which is in the billions each year, goes untaxed, this is probably the real reason they go after drugs and dealers

 

[tenderlynew]

I dont think he is talking about overthrowing the govt in anyway, just trying to stop the legalized murder that is going on in this country, this is only 1 issue out of 1000s.

The pro-life camp has tried for years and years to win over hearts and minds to no avail, so what comes next? It all comes down to what people believe in and what they are willing to fight for, this generation has shown it is not willing to fight, maybe the generation you are coming up in will though.

Also

But I don’t think it is 1 issue out of 1000s. Human life, the quality of human life for all of us, is at stake every day. Right now we have a Black president and this is important for the culture of descendants of unjust slavery and all its fallout in the degradation of black folks and others of color in our society. Unfortunately I have been very ill for a very long time and am not up on the current status of the issues, but last I remember, (before being thrown in a hospital after writing a letter insulting Mr. Obama in order to try to make a point about his anticipated pro-abortion legislation prior to his first taking office, this was foolish, I want to say, but this makes me angry, what about freedom of speech, but, then again, what about the real pain of blacks men and women through long sensitivity engendered by the atrocity of racial prejudice.)

So, in perspective, a war* is *being fought right now on ONE other very important human rights issue in this country, the treatment of black Americans. I was called “racist” here for saying that a black president is good for blacks, huh? That’s just a little too touchy.

But Mr. Obama brings many issues to the table, including Pro-Life vs Pro-Abortion, in a way which…puts the war going on for him, a black man in the office of President of the United States, for the first time, with the associated differences in personality and character type, that come from America’s black nation, in contrast to typical personality and character types associated with the white nation–I believe it is a war for him just to go to the Oval Room every day and stand up for anything at all, as it has been a war for a black woman, for instance, to simply go to the Post Office in an all-white town in Florida, something I watched go down.

Mr. Obama, God willing, will join the ranks of past Presidents and continue in the role of putting racial equality up their in the American Seraphim (pls excuse, I don’t know if this metaphor is proper.)

But there will be work to be done to redefine order in the wake of his two terms, and I pray, with all my heart, mind, and soul, that a part of this is in some fashion to undo the harm he has done to the progr3ess that was being made in the Pro-Life movement, as far as I understood it, prior to his taking office (President Bush instituted some courageous initiatives…Obama’s casually repealing them was the subject of the letter for which I got beamed.​

Black men and women suffered and organized for a long time to accomplish this coup. (400 years) Maybe white American Christians have had it too easy for too long…

 

[tenderlynew]

While I do oppose abortion, I have to say as a non-Christian I doubt I would join such a movement if it was directly lead by Church figures. I believe in separation of church and state and quite frankly I do not trust (mostly protestant) Christian churches with power. If by some miracle they were victorious they wouldnt stop at abortion. Gay marriage gone, Sodomy laws reinstated, and if evangelicals came to power even worse, possibly bans on alcohol, extramarital sex, and other things the government has no right to stop us from doing. If a Christian revolution took over this country I honestly believe they would do whatever in their power they could to infringe apon my right to freedom of religion.

The movement doesn’t have to be directly led by church figures. Just by all those concerned for the vitality and continuance of our society. There should be laws against gay marriage, sodomy, fornication, and even masturbation. The current sexual profligacy in our society is leading to its decay. Masturbation is like nicotine…leads to worse things, including, directly and implicitly, pornography and the degradation of both women and men. Laws against fornication would go a long way towards ending abortion, for example.

America became about the bottom dollar, and sex sells, as they used to say in the 70’s and 80’s, before things got so bad as they are today.

So we got beamed by Muslim fanatics.

 

[sent_by_God]

As far as I can see, the objections you have raised are as follows:

• No one would fight the war.
• The military is too powerful.
• Chances of success are too low.
• I’m not personally a war expert. (What does this have to do with anything?)
• Christian leaders would be bad.
• Shooting abortionists & such won’t stop abortion.
• The apostles didn’t kill roman soldiers.
• Pro-lifers would be persecuted.

To #7: Why does it matter what some ancient people did? We’re all moral absolutists (right?), so the events of the past shouldn’t change our obligations.
To #5: I don’t think many Christians would be participating.
To #6: Yes, it will. It will send a message. It will scare people out of the profession.
To #8: Who says? From the fact that everyone in this country is so hostile to my view of this issue, I infer that we are rather a violence-phobic nation and would not kill random followers of a worldview just because some people who share that view are being violent.
To #1: How many of us do we really need? Since I’m not suggesting a pitched battle, rebel numbers wouldn’t be that big of a deal.
To #2: Again, it wouldn’t be a pitched battle, so the military probably wouldn’t be shooting us.
To #3: So what? First, why should this matter? Second, even if we don’t change the laws, we will get our message across. The spell of fear it would cause would save so many babies, it would be worth whatever was lost in the process.

 

[CitrusNa]

sent by God: Muslim extremists attack and kill in order to prove their point. Do you think that approach has been very successful? Do you see American culture conforming itself to be more acceptable to radical Islam? What makes you think your version of that same violence and bloodshed would meet greater success?

Attacking people is a fantastic way to make them hate everything you’re about.

 

[St_Francis]

As far as I can see, the objections you have raised are as follows:

• No one would fight the war.
• The military is too powerful.
• Chances of success are too low.
• I’m not personally a war expert. (What does this have to do with anything?)
• Christian leaders would be bad.
• Shooting abortionists & such won’t stop abortion.
• The apostles didn’t kill roman soldiers.
• Pro-lifers would be persecuted.

To #7: Why does it matter what some ancient people did? We’re all moral absolutists (right?), so the events of the past shouldn’t change our obligations.
To #5: I don’t think many Christians would be participating.
To #6: Yes, it will. It will send a message. It will scare people out of the profession.
To #8: Who says? From the fact that everyone in this country is so hostile to my view of this issue, I infer that we are rather a violence-phobic nation and would not kill random followers of a worldview just because some people who share that view are being violent.
To #1: How many of us do we really need? Since I’m not suggesting a pitched battle, rebel numbers wouldn’t be that big of a deal.
To #2: Again, it wouldn’t be a pitched battle, so the military probably wouldn’t be shooting us.
To #3: So what?

So what if there is a low probability of success? Considering that you are talking about a high probability of people’s dying, what is the point if there is not a high probability of success? In this case, your action would be disproportionate: loss of life to achieve little or nothing.

First, why should this matter?

It matters because there is a serious loss of social order with either war or violent civil conflict. Thus, there must be proportionate reasons for people to engage in these actions. If there is little prospect of success, then all you have done is add to the carnage.

Second, even if we don’t change the laws, we will get our message across.

Your message being… don’t kill people?

The spell of fear it would cause would save so many babies, it would be worth whatever was lost in the process.

The likelihood of this sort of action’s even saving babies’ lives is very low. Nothing gins the “progressives” up like apparent harm on the part of their enemies.

We touched upon the hippies and all that before. Guess what? The reason what they did worked is the quality of their opponents. Those opponents were able to see that yes, prejudice against blacks was wrong, that making things difficult for women was wring, etc. They felt guilt because they saw it was wrong.

The thing about those who led the sit-ins and what-have-you is that they do not have that sense of right and wrong. Philosphically, they are moral relativists and everything they do which might in and of itself be considered wrong is justified by the action’s being committed in the service of their great cause.

*I lived through that time. *I have seen them in action for almost 50 years. What you are planning would not work one iota because their thinking is that they are RIGHT and we are EVIL. They have no boundaries to what they are willing to do; we have moral boundaries that we are willing to follow.

 

[mikekle]

sent by God: Muslim extremists attack and kill in order to prove their point. Do you think that approach has been very successful? Do you see American culture conforming itself to be more acceptable to radical Islam? What makes you think your version of that same violence and bloodshed would meet greater success?

Attacking people is a fantastic way to make them hate everything you’re about.

Good point, however the muslim extremists are winning over those that control the media.

 

[tenderlynew]

St_Francis:
I have seen them in action for almost 50 years. What you are planning would not work one iota because their thinking is that they are RIGHT and we are EVIL. They have no boundaries to what they are willing to do; we have moral boundaries that we are willing to follow.

A distressing thing to reflect upon, but I understand you to be right about this.

I say, leave it to the next generation, post-Obama (who will be president next tho?) to fight a legal battle, a political battle, taking some lessons from the black civil rights movement in understanding how to “change things” for a just cause in this mixed up society.

 

[tenderlynew]

I believe that the young will be so severely impacted, in the quality of their lives, by the immorality passed down through, or from, the liberalism of the 60’s and 70’s, that they will rise up to do this. I pray it.

Sent by God, be among these young people! I admire your zeal and find in it the hope that I have expressed.

 

[Cruciferi]

Unfortunately, or fortunately, there will definitely be another world war in the very near future. I expect it to be within four years. If you’re itching for a fight, you’ll definitely be in for one soon.