There's not enough about Mary

[Caesar]

I think your question is too broad to be answered well. Is there an acceptable number of Catholics that would satisfy you if they downplay it, and how can you measure it?

I don’t believe that Montfort’s writings are official church teaching; I seem to recall that these sorts of devotions are optional for Catholics, and for good reason. You seem to imply all Catholics should be very highly Marian - whatever that means. Do you think all Catholics should say the Rosary daily? What would be a satisfactory level of Marian devotion to you?

I believe that every Catholic who is commited to their faith ought to have great reverance for the Blessed Mother, and put this into practice in what ways they deem to be best. However, it is well known that the Rosary is a most powerful prayer, and one especialy praised and reccomended by the Church and Our Lady herself, so I most definately believe that this is the greatest devotion to the Blessed Virgin and one that should be prayed frequently by all the faithful.

I think you will agree that Marian devotion among Protestants is much less than among Catholics or Orthodox, and less than it was several hundred years ago. Perhaps Protestants may have some valid critiques of Marian theology that you should consider. Perhaps that critique is shared by some Catholics. The Catholic church is not uniform on this matter, after all.

Protestants deny the Marian dogmas and have a very low view of the Blessed Mother in comparison to the Church. But what should their opinions matter here?

As for protestant (and some “Catholic”) criticisms of the Blessed Virgin, I prefer to remain close to the constant teachings of the Church and the reccomendations of innumerable Popes and Saints that devotion to the Blessed Virgin the best way to grow in our spiritual relationship with Christ.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Does anyone else here agree that reverance to the Blessed Virgin Mary is way too downplayed by many Catholics today?

I am currently reading* True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin* by St. Louis De Montfort (particularly praised by Pope John Paul II). St. Louis teaches us that our relationship with the Virgin Mary is essential in our relationship with Christ. Yet devotion to Our Lady is much too downplayed today, mostly out of fear of offending protestants.

I think this is true. When the salvation or damnation of my soul is at stake, I don’t care if I offend others by being pious and devout.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Family history is interesting

Agreed. Sounds unlikely that we’re related.

… Hey Charlie! Your name sounds familiar - maybe we have met or are related? (I have some cousins with the same last name). Do you go to Our Lady of Lebanon in Harris Park? What village are you from (if from Lebanon?) My grandparents are from Blouza.

My mother is from Blouza! Such a tiny and remote villiage. We could be related.

I think I better send you a private message.

 

[Michael_Howard]

I think your question is too broad to be answered well. Is there an acceptable number of Catholics that would satisfy you if they downplay it, and how can you measure it?

I don’t believe that Montfort’s writings are official church teaching; I seem to recall that these sorts of devotions are optional for Catholics, and for good reason. You seem to imply all Catholics should be very highly Marian - whatever that means. Do you think all Catholics should say the Rosary daily? What would be a satisfactory level of Marian devotion to you?

I think you will agree that Marian devotion among Protestants is much less than among Catholics or Orthodox, and less than it was several hundred years ago. Perhaps Protestants may have some valid critiques of Marian theology that you should consider. Perhaps that critique is shared by some Catholics. The Catholic church is not uniform on this matter, after all.

I think the Reformers took seriously the fact of the 4th commandment, to honor thy father and mother which in the Hebrew literally means to *“glorify” *thy father and mother. If we are to give such great honor to our earthly parents how much more honor and glory did Christ give to His own Mother?

Why else would this have been a tradition in the Davidic Kingdom to make ones mother the queen, give her a throne and office? Perhaps they to took the commandment seriously to “glorify” their mothers unlike many Protestants who cannot seem to even call the Mother of our Lord “blessed” but would like to simply forget her altogether. Remember, when we see her in the scriptures she is the humble handmaiden of the Lord, she was to remain hidden as a humble dsiciple just as *Esther was hidden until God raised her up to save her people. *

So Proestants, please demonstrate to me from scripture why Mary is not worthy of honor and glory being the Mother of our Lord based on the 4th commandment. Those who dishonor the Mother of our Lord will be dishonored by Christ Himself. It’s one thing to not understand her role and question the teachings on Mary, it’s quite another thing to speak of her in a irreverant manner that dishonors her.

 

[Cari]

Perhaps they to took the commandment seriously to “glorify” their mothers unlike many Protestants who cannot seem to even call the Mother of our Lord “blessed” but would like to simply forget her altogether.

No, no. They trot her out at Christmas Eve candle services.
If not for that one mention a year, this convert would have never heard of our Lady. Maybe I’d have grown up thinking that Jesus was some sort of test tube baby?

 

[rr1213]

So Proestants, please demonstrate to me from scripture why Mary is not worthy of honor and glory being the Mother of our Lord based on the 4th commandment. Those who dishonor the Mother of our Lord will be dishonored by Christ Himself. It’s one thing to not understand her role and question the teachings on Mary, it’s quite another thing to speak of her in a irreverant manner that dishonors her.

There is no justification whatsoever for dishonoring Mary. She is a saint and the Mother of God. Her submission to the will of God as expressed in the Magnificat is amazing and worth of emulation. Moreover, if this were not enough, it would also be UNWISE to DISHONOR Mary, the mother of Our Lord.

Nonetheless, this does not mean that Catholic doctrine as to the Marian Dogmas or Catholic practice regarding the veneration of Mary is necessarily correct. They are separate issues.

You know how you all get sick and tired of hearing how “Catholics worship Mary”? Well, likewise, many Protestants get sick and tired of Catholics saying that Protestants “dishonor Mary” just because we do not accept the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, Queen of Heaven, veneration, etc.

 

[Michael_Howard]

There is no justification whatsoever for dishonoring Mary. She is a saint and the Mother of God. Her submission to the will of God as expressed in the Magnificat is amazing and worth of emulation. Moreover, if this were not enough, it would also be UNWISE to DISHONOR Mary, the mother of Our Lord.

Nonetheless, this does not mean that Catholic doctrine as to the Marian Dogmas or Catholic practice regarding the veneration of Mary is necessarily correct. They are separate issues.

You know how you all get sick and tired of hearing how “Catholics worship Mary”? Well, likewise, many Protestants get sick and tired of Catholics saying that Protestants “dishonor Mary” just because we do not accept the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, Queen of Heaven, veneration, etc.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply and I agree with the first part of your response. What I would like you to consider is this: scripture does make it very clear in the OT that it was a common practice/ tradtion for kings in the Davidic line to raise their mother to a place of honor and make her the Queen taking seriously the commandment to honor or “glorify” their mother.

This was a real office and the Queen Mother had much influence and power, this can be demonstrated by Scripture. Now, if earthly kings rasied their mother to the status of ‘Queen Mother’ (some of them less than godly) why would one assume that Jesus would do less? if Jesus raises us up, glorifies us, seats us in heavenly places, how much more His own Mother?

 

[Le_Cracquere]

I think this is true. When the salvation or damnation of my soul is at stake, I don’t care if I offend others by being pious and devout.

Quite right, as far as that goes. However, this presumes that one’s stance towards Mary is an issue on which the salvation or damnation of one’s soul depends. Is insufficient devotion to the Virgin, then, a damnable offence? If so, can Protestants be blamed for thinking that some Catholics’ estimations of her have passed a tad beyond the ordinate?

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply and I agree with the first part of your response. What I would like you to consider is this: scripture does make it very clear in the OT that it was a common practice/ tradtion for kings in the Davidic line to raise their mother to a place of honor and make her the Queen taking seriously the commandment to honor or “glorify” their mother.

This was a real office and the Queen Mother had much influence and power, this can be demonstrated by Scripture. Now, if earthly kings rasied their mother to the status of ‘Queen Mother’ (some of them less than godly) why would one assume that Jesus would do less? if Jesus raises us up, glorifies us, seats us in heavenly places, how much more His own Mother?

Good point. “To more than an ordinary degree” would be my answer, but precisely how much more is still an open question for many of us. As the previous poster argued, though, such uncertainty doesn’t amount to the disrespect or lack of affection toward our Lord’s mother of which some Catholics have accused us.

 

[promethius95945]

Perhaps you should be.

Mt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

Lu 17:2 "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

1Co 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

If Protestants are separated brethren, and you cause your brother to be offended, you have a problem.

it was, of course, a joke. however, there is something to be said here too… Did Jesus stop preaching just because His words offended the high priests, nor should catholics stop defending the faith because others are offended by truth. we not personally offend, i’ll grant you that, but niether should we shirk from speaking hard truths.