There's Something About Mary....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Singinbeauty
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Singinbeauty

Guest
There is something that has been bothering me ever since I read it and I was hoping that anyone on here would be able to explain it.

***DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a thread that is intended to debate Mary or her position in christianity… I just wanted to point that out. If it goes there it goes there on it’s own. It’s not my intention. 🙂 ** *

Ok so here is an excert from the webpage I was viewing… I am not looking for you to discredit the author, although if you have something substantial about her go ahead and post it but this thread is not about her but about what she says… Anywho…
When Pope John Paul II was shot, while the ambulance was rushing him to the hospital, the Pope was not praying to God or calling on the name of Jesus. He kept saying, over and over: “Mary, my mother!” Polish pilgrims placed a picture of Our Lady of Czestochowa on the throne where the Pope normally sat. People gathered around the picture. Vatican loudspeakers broadcasted the prayers of the rosary. When the Pope recovered, he gave Mary all the glory for saving his life, and he made a pilgrimage to Fatima to publicly thank her.
Click to expand...
This is taken from catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html. Again… I am not here to argue about worshipping Mary but this point stuck with me and I wanted to get your opinion. Please, do not get defensive as I know that this is a VERY sensitive subject. This situation did spark some interest and I wanted to ask your opinions. 🙂
 
HI again SB! 🙂

I looked at the site and that’s a very questionable one to begin with. That lady claims she was a nun, but she knows about diddly squat about the things that she speaks of, much the same way I was when I left the church, so I would not let her be a regular source…

John Paul the Great was very deeply devoted to Our Lady, as are a great many of us, (myself included, being a knight of the Immaculata (Militia Immaculata)

It’s easy for a non-Catholic to get confused about this sort of stuff, especially when it is framed in a biased presentation like the one on that site, but the fact is that JPII and all of us accredit his recovery to God’s intervention through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin as Christianity’s greatest prayer warrior.

I hope that helps, my friend. 😃
Pax tecum,
 
I don’t have a lot to add to what CM said, but one must have an understanding of proper devotion to Mary before they will understand events such as the one SB pointed out.

I see love and humility in such actions personally, but then I have a proper understanding of devotion to Mary. 😉
 
Some Protestants love to take comments about Mary made by Catholics and run with them. But, that is being disingenuous. When Catholics talk about what Mary did for them without mentioning God, they are merely talking in a cultural shorthand which Catholics understand and outsiders may not. We never mean to say that Mary alone saved the Pope nor that she alone works miracles. Everything Mary does is because she is perfectly in sync with the will of God and all her actions are done through the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of God, just as any or our good works are. We don’t think of her as a goddess or a demi-god. She is the greatest of the Saints, but most certainly not divine, although she has full access to God’s divine power, being that she is in heaven with him. 😉
 
This reminds me of something I read in one of James McCarthy’s books. (He’s completely anti-catholic.) Personally, I doubt it’s accuracy. But even if it is true, I don’t think that’s too harmful for a few reasons.
  1. People can make mistakes. Even the Pope.
  2. Giving Mary credit can only glorify God. The Pope asked his Mother for help, she gave it to him. Without Jesus, he wouldn’t have Mary.
  3. If Mary helped him, it would be proper to thank her.
All that to say, Pope John Paul II was a better Christian than most will ever be on earth. I trust his judgement.
 
40.png
Singinbeauty:
There is something that has been bothering me ever since I read it and I was hoping that anyone on here would be able to explain it.

***DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a thread that is intended to debate Mary or her position in christianity… I just wanted to point that out. If it goes there it goes there on it’s own. It’s not my intention. 🙂 ***

Ok so here is an excert from the webpage I was viewing… I am not looking for you to discredit the author, although if you have something substantial about her go ahead and post it but this thread is not about her but about what she says… Anywho…

This is taken from catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html. Again… I am not here to argue about worshipping Mary but this point stuck with me and I wanted to get your opinion. Please, do not get defensive as I know that this is a VERY sensitive subject. This situation did spark some interest and I wanted to ask your opinions. 🙂
Click to expand...
When I was dying of alcoholism, I was convinced in my very sick head and heart that God did not want anything to do with me. I cried out to the Blessed Virgin, asking for help. My obsession to drink was lifted, and I walked into the rooms of AA and have stayed sober since May 4, 1992.

I do not worship Mary. The Holy Trinity is my Higher Power. But I credit Mary for saving my life, in much the same way as I credit the prayers of my earthly, birth mother for saving my life, for without them I would not have found sobriety and not found my way back to the Holy Mother Church.

JPII was devoted to his Lord and Savior’s mother, for he was following Jesus’ instructions and the Traditions of His Bride, the Church by doing so…often times, the child will call to the mother, but that does not mean it loves the Father less.
 
I looked over some of the woman’s articles. She has a lot of short articles on Catholism but she gives no details on herself. What type of nun was she? From what order and how long did she belong? Most converts like to tell their stories, so I am a bit bewildered why she leaves out information on herself.
 
Here is Mary Ann Collins personal story as told by her: seekgod.ca/collins.htm. It is sad, truly sad! She became disillusioned over priests preaching against the reliability of the Bible and accepting the higher criticism. I note that she never seemed to understand that the preaching or teaching of priests does not equal Catholic truth. Plus, she got into a Protestant church that, like many others before her, grabbed her interest with lively music and fellowship and lots of Bible study. Only she really knows how much she truly understood of Catholic teaching before she came under the influence of people like James McCarthy. Apparently though, she has swallowed his version of Catholic teaching whole and without question. I rather doubt she would care to learn that his credentials are suspect, his “research” biased and unprofessional, poor woman.
 
When I sing songs to my daughter or hoist her up and carry her around when she wins a soccer game am I worshipping her? When I cheer her on and say I love her am I worshipping her? When I carry pictures of her in my wallet have pictures of her all over my house am I worshipping her?
I have a song I made up about my daughter, saying she is the captain of the day, and she loves it!

We love our Mother Mary and we express our love for her, God is infinitely more intelligent than us and if we Catholics can understand that we are not worshipping her then He does. People with a bias against the Church love to try and take perceptions to twist to their own intepretation. God knows the heart and knows the difference between us saying I love you to a creature, and I love you to God.

God Bless
Scylla

There are some people who have made some investigations into that ex-nun who never made vows, Here is a thread about her, she seems to be a cross between Jack Chick and Maria Monk.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=69590&highlight=Mary+Collins
 
When the wine ran out at the wedding feast at Cana, Mary brought the matter to Jesus’ attention and he changed water into wine. To whom should the host of the feast be grateful for the extra wine? To Jesus, to Mary, or to both? Both, right? Pope John Paul II was convinced that his life was spared from assassination by God through Mary’s intercession. It makes perfect sense that along with thanking God he would also want to thank Mary.
 
Todd Easton:
When the wine ran out at the wedding feast at Cana, Mary brought the matter to Jesus’ attention and he changed water into wine. To whom should the host of the feast be grateful for the extra wine? To Jesus, to Mary, or to both? Both, right? Pope John Paul II was convinced that his life was spared from assassination by God through Mary’s intercession. It makes perfect sense that along with thanking God he would also want to thank Mary.
Click to expand...
But according to what I have read, on the site I gave and others, the pope did not thank God for healing him, he thanked Mary and left God out of it. At least on the surface… I do not claim to know his heart…
 
40.png
Singinbeauty:
But according to what I have read, on the site I gave and others, the pope did not thank God for healing him, he thanked Mary and left God out of it. At least on the surface… I do not claim to know his heart…
Click to expand...
When a Catholic thanks Mary he does not think he is “leaving God out of it.” He understands perfectly that Mary helped him through the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of God. Your understanding is what is faulty here, not the Catholic’s, dear friend, simply because the Catholic knows what he means, while you do not know what he means.
 
40.png
Della:
When a Catholic thanks Mary he does not think he is “leaving God out of it.” He understands perfectly that Mary helped him through the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of God. Your understanding is what is faulty here, not the Catholic’s, dear friend, simply because the Catholic knows what he means, while you do not know what he means.
Click to expand...
This would by why I said that I did not know his heart… I was just saying what it said to ME and outsider… The thing that still puzzles me is that when he gave his public ‘Thank You’ why was it addressed to Mary and not God? Mary, from what you have told me, just passed along a prayer with him but she didn’t actually heal him. That would be like me thanking my friend who prayed for me for healing me when it actually was God. It’s puzzling to me to say the least.
 
40.png
Singinbeauty:
This would by why I said that I did not know his heart… I was just saying what it said to ME and outsider… The thing that still puzzles me is that when he gave his public ‘Thank You’ why was it addressed to Mary and not God? Mary, from what you have told me, just passed along a prayer with him but she didn’t actually heal him. That would be like me thanking my friend who prayed for me for healing me when it actually was God. It’s puzzling to me to say the least.
Click to expand...
Singing, people have taken a great deal of time to explain to you dulia, hyperdulia, latria (worship). They have also taken the time to explain to you the Catholic concept of the Communion of Saints and how they are actively used by God to execute His plan for us just as He uses people still of this world. They have taken the time to explain how it is proper to express our gratitude to the Saints in Heaven as we would those who do good things here on earth.

But your continued efforts to prove that Catholics worship Mary with total disregard for these well thought out and well-intentioned responses is starting to indicate an agenda. I apologize if I’m reaching a conclusion that is unwarranted but unless there is at least some indications that you are reading and considering what is said, it is futile to debate with one whose mind and heart are closed.
 
“The prayer of a righteous man availeth much” - Jas 5:16

Let’s say that I lose a limb and a righteous person comes and lays hands on me, annoints me with oil, and prays over me. I miraculously grow a new limb. I prayed before the person came, but to no avail. Would it be wrong of me to publicly thank the righteous person for helping me, or give him credit for my healing? Did that person not do something to obtain God’s mercy for me? Wouldn’t I be remiss if I ignored the person who came to my aid, and only gave credit to God?

“I am a servant of Pastor X, because Pastor X healed me!”
…Is this wrong? Let’s assume it is. With that understanding, let us turn to the scriptures:

Acts 28:8
His father was sick in bed, suffering from fever and dysentery. Paul went in to see him and, after prayer, placed his hands on him and healed him.

…wait…WHO healed the man? Paul?!? How un-scriptural of scripture! It should say that GOD healed him…shouldn’t it? I don’t see a mention of God at all in that context!

Acts 5:12
The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade.

…wait…WHO performed the signs? The Apostles?!? Why doesn’t it say that GOD performed the signs?

1 Corinthians 12:28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those **having **gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

…wait…if people can have these gifts, wouldn’t it be proper to acknowledge the people? Could that be done with an *implicit understanding *that all things are grace, and that of God?

Perhaps the my pendulum swung too far…

God Bless,
RyanL
 
Here’s an answer from someone smarter than me:
As for thanking Mary for the Pope’s life, we must remember that we are a family and it pleases God that family members help each other. The source of all power and salvation is in God alone, but through His power, His children can help each other.
Click to expand...
The doctor who saved the Pope’s life did not do it under his own power, it was the power of God who gave him the gifts needed to be able to save the Pope’s life. We do nothing in our own power.
Click to expand...
In this case, for a variety of reasons, the Pope knew that Mary was the one who, through God, (just like the doctor did his thing through God), saved his life. It is proper to thank someone for doing that and the Pope thanks all those who were involved – the body guards, the medical team, Mary, and God.
Click to expand...
saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/Answers/Defending_Faith/p0309120082.html

Also, keep in mind that we are only looking at one woman’s (arguably biased) account of the Pope’s remarks. A daresay the Pope has said a great many things in public than both of us have had time to read. Without having a complete record of everything the Pope has ever said on this event, it is impossible to make enough of a judgement to be disturbed about it.
 
Don’t forget the fact that Mary is also our Mother. To honor her is very appropriate to say the least, and she deserves our thanks; thanks for her “fiat”; thanks for her intercession; thanks for her motherly love.
 
But your continued efforts to prove that Catholics worship Mary with total disregard for these well thought out and well-intentioned responses is starting to indicate an agenda.
Click to expand...
I do not know where you are getting that… as I said in my OP I am not here to prove or disprove Marian Worship. This is just an instance that was concerning me. If I repeat things or seem to beat them on the head maybe I am just not understanding and it needs to be presented in another light…
 
well, JPII did have a great devotion to Mary…

however, when he added the Luminous Mysteries to the
Rosary, not one was really focused on Mary. all 5 of the new
mysteries had to do with Christ’s life, making the Rosary, the devotion most associated with Mary, even more a prayer of
contemplation of Christ’s life…

Luminous Mysteries…
  1. baptism in the river jordan
  2. wedding feast at Cana ( even tho this one does show Mary’s
    influence on Jesus )
  3. proclamation of the kingdom of God
  4. transfiguration of our Lord
  5. the last supper, institution of the Holy Eucharist
what a person feels in his heart, only he and God knows…
what a person is overheard to say, only he and God knows
the meaning of a lot of the time…

but what a person leaves, as a permanent change, is more
proof of where their faith lies… isn’t it James? i’ll show you my
faith by my works?

🙂 (( congratulations again on your upcomming baptism ))
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top