There's something i can't understand

[rand_al_thor_1]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

I trust you believe all the Koran teaches with no problem…

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[RebeccaJ]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

Perhaps if you think of it as a sign of God’s Love.

Peace.

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

I trust you believe all the Koran teaches with no problem…

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

well the quran explains the uniqueness of God in surah 112.

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

This is something one can understand and logical.

But the christian Concept of God is confusing for me.

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

Perhaps if you think of it as a sign of God’s Love.

Peace.

can you explain?

 

[Harland]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

Your question is very good and I understand your quandary. The problem comes from our different understandings of who God is and how He interacts with us and how we interact with Him. Until we are willing to sit down and understand, not necessarily agree but understand, where each other is coming from questions like this will never be answered to your satisfaction. After all Christians have the same kinds of questions of Islam.

Because this is a Catholic Christian site and not a Baptist Christian or Lutheran Christian site for the best official Catholic answer look in the Catachism of the Catholic Church.

 

[1sicht]

OP, nutshell answer for you.

 

[4everjustjesus]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

I think, the basic answer to your question is this: “For God so loved the world, that he gave His only son…” (John 3:16)

St. Paul says that “the wages (consequences) of sin is death…” We believe that Christ payed for our sins…

Does it make a little more sense?

But i totally get your confusion, it’s something that’s hard for us catholics to understand too… God? become man? for little ol’ me? Not only did he become man, he died for something he didn’t do… he died for me… The one and only reason? love

 

[dzheremi]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

With due respect, I think part of the reason you and others might struggle with it is that you are only informed as to one particular view about sin – the Roman Catholic view. (Note: I am not disparaging the view of “original sin” taught by the Catholic Church. I am only saying that there are other views out there to which such characterizations would not be applicable.)

In the Coptic Orthodox Church, in the Liturgy of St. Basil the following is recited as part of the prayer of reconciliation:

“O God the Great and the Eternal, Who formed man in incorruption and death which entered into the world by the envy of the devil, You have destroyed by the lifegiving manifestation of Your Only-Begotten Son, our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ.”

The wording is a little obtuse in the English translation (my copy of the liturgy is the first translated edition, English/Coptic/Arabic, 7/18/1992; perhaps it has improved in subsequent editions, if they exist), but even with the somewhat liberal use of commas instead of full stops (no doubt inherited from the first language of the translators, yanni ) it is clear that God formed man in incorruption, that is to say, in a pure state, and that sin and death entered the world by the envy of the devil (you know, the serpent and all that). The Coptic Orthodox, as all Orthodox that I know of, reject the idea of inheritance of “original sin” (that is, the guilt of the sin, or the actual sin itself), preferring instead to say that there is inherited proclivity towards sin or a sinful nature. For further exposition, please refer to this document: Sin & Atonement

The difference may seem to be splitting hairs, but I think there is a lot to be learned from it. Whereas the “inherited guilt of the sin” sort of understanding that I think is advanced in the RCC (from what I remember of my RCIA classes; apologies in advance if I’ve messed that up, Catholics) lends itself to a penal or legalistic sort of “Christ satisfies the Father’s need for justice” understanding of Christ’s mission, in the East you will find that the victory of the crucifixion is most often expressed in the image of Christ conquering death by the holy cross. As is sung in the resurrection hymn made most famous by Fairuz “Christ has risen from the dead, and by His death, he trampled death, and gave life to those in the graves.”

If you understand it in that way, it might revolutionize the way you see Christ’s mission. Christ conquers death by the holy cross, and humanity is set free to pursue the true meaning of our existence, as God intended: Unending praise, service, and sacrifice to the One who has created all of us. This does not mean that we will never again sin, but we are no longer slaves to death.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

well the quran explains the uniqueness of God in surah 112.

This is something one can understand and logical.

But the christian Concept of God is confusing for me.

This is your belief system…Christians also believe in One God. The First Commandment given to Moses is, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them”.

The abbrieviated version: I am Lord your God you shall have not other gods before me. Not hard to understand at all.

My point is you are accepting your beliefs as a matter of faith…not fact.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[runningdude]

well the quran explains the uniqueness of God in surah 112.

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten

I can accept that it is confusing, and I’ll admit that I’m not familiar enough with Islam to know the context of how this particular verse (“surah 112”) fits within Islam. Hopefully, I can shed some light by addressing why this is confusing. Please excuse me if I say anything that sounds disrespectful, I’m answering in good faith .

Based on this verse alone, I’d say that Catholic’s differ in our belief in the nature of God in that we believe “God the Father”, begat “God the Son”. We believe though that both God the Father and God the Son, as well as God the Holy Spirit are “three persons” in one supreme being, a belief known as the Trinity. This is obviously a belief that conflicts with Islam, where the Koran says that Gods is neither begotten nor begott.

I admit my ignorance here, but I would venture to say the verse in surah 112 was written specifically to address the Christian belief about the nature of God.

From Islam’s perspective (and please correct me if I’m wrong), you would believe God dictated this verse to Mohamed to address what would the Christian “heresy” of God begetting God. By design, Islam seems to specifically make understanding the Christian Trinity difficult.

Basically, I understand why this is a difficult teaching to wrap your head around. It boils down to what the Koran says verses what the Catholic Church says, and only patience and a good sense of humor can help in making sense of the other side’s beliefs.

 

[RebeccaJ]

can you explain?

Read the New Testament. It explains everything.

Peace.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

The Jews during the time of Jesus of Nazareth rejected Him as their long awaited Messiah, they’re are still Jews today that await for a messiah. On the other hand I’m not sure what is meant when muslims talks about Jesus being a “Messiah” since there are certain truths about Jesus Christ missing in islam.

To better understand the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, you have to understand Original Sin. I don’t think islam teaches or recognizes Original Sin. (I don’t know if I can explain it a well as I would like.) Original Sin is not a personal sin, it isn’t a sin a person commits, nor is it a “mysterious illness.” Original Sin more of a condition that all men and women have a tendency to sin, and when tempted they usually do. Adam and Eve were originally created sinless, but still had a trial to go though, (you know the story) God allowed them to eat from any tree in the Garden except from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. (To be honest, the fruit is not mentioned in The Bible as an apple.)

When Adam and Eve disobeyed God their original state changed, they were no longer in the pristine state God created them. Since they offended a God that was only good to them and for no reason, their sin was great, even though it seems like a trifle thing to us now. There were consequences too - sin enters the world, because now all humans have the propensity to sin (because of original sin). And because of it there is a cascading effect, sins get progressively worse. People get further and further away from God, Jesus came into the world to correct all that and restore mankind back to the friendship of God.

 

[Sister_Amy]

A fellow Robert Jordan fan, I see.

 

[Reuben_J]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

Just a short note. It is good you start this thread, if anything, we can only learn about the belief of each other - Christians and Muslims respectively. Eventually you will reach an impasse as we do not have the same definition of many words and issues which have the same words and phrases.

For starter - we believe Muslims reject Jesus as the Messiah.

Now you are going to protest very loudly over this. But from our perspective it is true.

Therefore, first of all you should define Messiah. You’d be surprised that your definition is far way off from what Christians understand it. We cannot move on with a proper discussion with this kind of issue meaningfully if we take for granted that we understand the word in the same way because it is not.

So define how Muslims understand what Messiah is and then you can move from there.

God bless.

 

[Sam_777]

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form

Think of it in this simple form:
“By one person we cast down from Paradise and by one Person we get back there”.

 

[Dokimas]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

It appears you have some misunderstandings or misinformations.

First of all, what makes you think that Adam and Eve ate and apple? The Bible doesn’t say it was an apple. I highly doubt it was an apple.

Second, what makes you think God made up His plan as events unfolded? Is that the way your God does it, or does he know the end from the beginning like the Christian and Jewish God does? The Bible teaches that Jesus was slain FROM the foundation of the world.

Re 13:8 “All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

Make no mistake about it, the Christian God and Jewish God are one in the same. There are many Jews that know Jesus to be the Messiah and God.

Your last paragraph seems correct. It’s God’s brilliant plan to wipe out the effects of human sin by the death of the God/Human.

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

I think, the basic answer to your question is this: “For God so loved the world, that he gave His only son…” (John 3:16)

St. Paul says that “the wages (consequences) of sin is death…” We believe that Christ payed for our sins…

Does it make a little more sense?

But i totally get your confusion, it’s something that’s hard for us catholics to understand too… God? become man? for little ol’ me? Not only did he become man, he died for something he didn’t do… he died for me… The one and only reason? love

but why would God send an innocent man to die for sins he did not commit.Is God powerless to forgive that they only way to get rid of the sin is for someone else to die for it?

 

[edward_george]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

I recommend St. Athanasius’ On the Incarnation. It explains the theology of the Incarnation very clearly and eloquently.

newadvent.org/fathers/2802.htm

-ACEGC

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

This is your belief system…Christians also believe in One God. The First Commandment given to Moses is, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them”.

The abbrieviated version: I am Lord your God you shall have not other gods before me. Not hard to understand at all.

My point is you are accepting your beliefs as a matter of faith…not fact.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

so how can you have a single God when christians believe in three different distinct personalities that are all Gods.

You have the father in heaven. He’s God. You have the son on earth preaching. He’s God as well. And you have the holy spirit. inspiring people on earth. He’s God too. You can say all these three people are the same person when they are different in persoanlities.

When jesus say’s My father is greater than I It clearly shows that he’s referring to a Distinctive God in heavens. If jesus and the father are the same one God, then 'my father is greater than i makes no sense at all.