There's something i can't understand

[rand_al_thor_1]

By not being two different things? God is beyond time and space-I don’t think His self-expression to the world should be problematic for Him.

self expression? how did god self express himself to the world?

 

[fhansen]

belief is not the only thing that is required in islam. Righteous deeds are important too. You need both in islam.

So if we are born with a state of seperation from God, what happens to jewish baby that dies or a muslim baby that dies?

Well, how does a baby perform righteous deeds? We trust In God’s love and mercy-we’re taught that He is love-and that He demands more from those who’ve been given more-and less from those who’ve been given less. (Luke 12:48). Only He does the reconciling so He’ll take care of babies.

First of all, the separation from God we speak of should be evident by the behavior of mankind in this world-the New Covenant compels us to take a new look at our own hearts-if we think we’re aligned with God’s will just because we’re obedient to His laws, but our hearts still harbor anger, lust, pride, and ill-will towards our neighbor, then we’re still far from the holiness God desires for us-a holiness only He can give us as we turn to Him after recognizing our inability to love as we should.

 

[fhansen]

self expression? how did god self express himself to the world?

That’s what revelation is all about from the Old Testament through the NT. Jesus is the ultimate revelation of God-“When you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father.” John 14:9

 

[hazcompat]

There is one God. God always was(is). God has lways been aware of Himself. The coeternal self awareness we call Son. When God sees Himself (like in a mirror)
He sees love (God is Love) thisLove we call Holy Spirit. One God. I recommend Saint Thomas Aquinas for a better understanding.

Peace

 

[Timothy17]

But how is that possible. You and i agree that there is One God. Now you say that his revelation to earth is the word. And that the word and God are the same thing. how can two different things be the same thing?

Dear rand al thor,

You’re father is one man. He is your father. But he also has his own father, so he is also a son. If you’re father had a wife, he is also a husband. If your father has a friend, then he is also a friend. And if he had a brother, then he is also a brother.

So you’re father is himself a father, a son, a husband, a brother, and a friend - does that mean he is not one man ? And these people, such as you (his son), his wife, his brother, and his friend(s) - they all know you’re father, but they did not all have the same relationship with your father (obviously ! We have very, very different relationships with our wives, our children, and our friends, and so on : but yet they all still know us).

Now you’re father might have revealed things to you that no one else knows, because you are his son. And because he is your father, you probably know him better than other people do. Those things your father told you about himself is his revelation about himself to you, his son. He probably told you these things by his own self-expression ; that is, by his word and by his example to you.

Now I am using things human to help explain things divine, but it is important to remember that God Himself created humanity, and He also created family (by making Eve and also by instituting marriage), and He did all of this before man first sinned. He did this freely for mankind.

Our human parents are not perfect ; however, they are modeled from (or after) God’s own image. Motherhood and fatherhood were created by God. These are examples of his self-expression (revelation) to man. Our mothers and our fathers are good mothers or fathers when they are like God, because God is the perfect parent, He is the perfect Father.

Now in Christian countries adoption of children is encouraged so that little children can grow up in a safe and loving home, and become themselves one day good parents. When we adopt children, (even though these children are not our biological children, and they come from different parents), we still treat them as our own children. If humans, out of love, are willing to adopt strange children to care for them, then what is preventing God from adopting fallen mankind to be His own children ? If God truly is God, then He can do anything good.

These are difficult things, but this is my way of understanding how we Christians understand God. We view Him as God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit : three persons in perfect relationship to each other, but still one God, one Being. This is the inner life of God that He invites all mankind to share in by becoming a member of His Holy Family, Christ and Mary’s family, the Church.

Pax (Latin for “peace”),
Tim

 

[Dokimas]

humans sin. no doubt about that. but your sin is yours. my sin is mine. you get punished for your own sin. as do i. but to get punished for someone’s else sin is not just

Trying to understand God is like putting the Atlantic ocean into a thimball. It’s hard for our human limited minds. Join the club. Our inability to understand truth does NOT negate it.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

As a muslim we recognise jesus as the messiah unlike the jews. The only difference here is that we do not see jesus as God. God has no sons or daughters. God is eternal and has no beginning or end.

But what does it mean that Jesus is the messiah to a muslim if Jesus is not the one who redeems us?

The original sin goes against the teachings of islam because it means man is born with a hereditary sin for which he’s not responsible and for that he ends up going to hell unless he believes in the blood and sacrifice of jesus. In islam we believe that every man is responsible for his own actions. What Adam and eve did has no bearing on me. Why should God almighty hold me and my family responsible for the actions of adam and eve?
Adam didnt ask for my permission before eating that apple nor did eve.

That is true about actual sin, that it can not be inherit. But Original Sin is not an actual sin, and it is not an actual sin that can be passed on. It is a condition that all mankind have after the fall of Adam and Eve, the propensity to sin. A sin is not such a personal event that it has no bearing on anyone else. So not only does the Fall of Adam and Eve effect us so does the sins of those around us and before us effect us too in some way even if we are not guilty for committing them. Jesus not only wipes away Original Sin but also actual sin too.

All actions a person does positive or negative does affect people around that person. Everybody from Christopher Columbus to Aristotle to anyone else you can think in history has an effect on our lives even today, whether we believe it or not. We might not know exactly who the first man and women were and where they lived, but yes they have an effect on us. Original Sin just is a belief that God created a world without sin or suffering for Original Man, and through disobedience sin and suffering entered the world and the one who could turn the tide of sin and suffering and restore our relationship with God is Jesus Christ.

There are millions of people out there who have no idea who jesus is. Millions died without hearing the word christ. Do they all end up in hell since they never accepted jesus?

Not hearing the word Jesus Christ, you could not say they rejected Him, so they are better off then those who have heard and rejected Him in various ways.

 

[Reuben_J]

rand al thor:

As a muslim we recognise jesus as the messiah unlike the jews. The only difference here is that we do not see jesus as God. God has no sons or daughters. God is eternal and has no beginning or end.

You are the first Muslim that I’ve heard that recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Many discerning Muslims would not commit themselves to say this. I know Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and none would say he is the Messiah. I know he is called Isa Al-masih (spell?) in Islam but it is never explained that he is the Messiah.

Can you give reference from where it says that the Jesus is the Messiah in Islam and what it entails?

 

[dzheremi]

Reuben J: “Al-Masih” means “The Messiah”, so it is kind of self-explanatory as a title. However you are absolutely right that Muslims do not mean what we mean when we say Jesus is the messiah. I once asked here on CAF what Muslims mean when they say Jesus is the messiah and Elwill (I think? It was a while ago) answered this is because Jesus healed the blind man by rubbing mud in his eyes and this “rubbing” action comes from the same M-S-H root as “masih”. So it’s like saying “Jesus is Messiah because he did this specific miracle”, not as we say that Jesus is God incarnate, because of course Muslims believe that is blasphemy.

 

[Sister_Amy]

The more I read posts in this thread, the weirder Christianity starts to seem.

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben J: “Al-Masih” means “The Messiah”, so it is kind of self-explanatory as a title. However you are absolutely right that Muslims do not mean what we mean when we say Jesus is the messiah. I once asked here on CAF what Muslims mean when they say Jesus is the messiah and Elwill (I think? It was a while ago) answered this is because Jesus healed the blind man by rubbing mud in his eyes and this “rubbing” action comes from the same M-S-H root as “masih”. So it’s like saying “Jesus is Messiah because he did this specific miracle”, not as we say that Jesus is God incarnate, because of course Muslims believe that is blasphemy.

Thanks for the clarification.

I’ve asked the OP to provide reference for the Islamic teaching that Jesus is the Messiah other than that he is called one. Even if he concurs (that Messiah means Jesus performing specific miracle), I want to know the reference to this – that he is the Messiah because he performed miracle because the root word indicates so.

 

[dzheremi]

Sister Amy: I generally feel the same whenever I read your posts or the posts of other Muslims about the greatness and perfection of Islam, the miracle of the Qur’an, etc. So I can relate…

Reuben J: That was to the best of my recollection of the conversation. I searched my past posts for reference to it, but couldn’t find it. This was the only time I’d ever heard anything like that, so I don’t know if it is an “official” explanation of any kind. For Muslims’ sake, I kinda hope not.

 

[Monica4316]

As a muslim i find the christian concept of God a bit strange with all due respect. Now the jew and the muslim viewpoint of God is strict monotheism. The only difference between the jew and the muslim is that the jew rejects christ as the messiah whereas the muslim does not.

so this is what bothers me. we are told that christians worship one God. I say i have no problem with that. So i then proceed to dig a bit deeper Now he creates adam and eve. Adam and eve sin by eating the apple. Result sin entered into the world. All of adam’s descendants have this mysterious illness whether they are child or a 80 year old.

So then God then decides the only way to remove this sin is basically go down to earth in a human form, in womb of a woman for 9 months, and undergo the trials and tribulations of normal human being. whether it be eating, drinking or getting circumscied. And then get crucified to remove the sin of adam.

This is really something i can’t get my head around.

Hi,

I hope I’ll be able to explain this correctly…

Jesus’ death redeemed us in several ways. Firstly, keep in mind that this is prophesied in the Old Testament… that the Messiah will die to save us, and that He is Lord. Jesus then shows this and shows that He is God by forgiving sin and calling Himself “I AM” , and saying that He is one with the Father.

Jesus saved us because…

1. He offered Himself as a sacrifice. The Father was looking at the world and it was (is) full of sin… God is just… Jesus is perfect and had never sinned, and offered Himself as a sacrifice, an offering, with which God was pleased. Remember how in the Old Testament, they would offer sacrifices once a year for forgiveness? But these sacrifices were not fully effective and needed to be renewed. Christ is the one eternal sacrifice.
2. He died and took on our human nature, and through dying, destroyed death. So in Him (through baptism, faith, Sacraments, - sharing in His life and grace) we can overcome death also… I mean spiritual eternal death… and also the death of the body, because our bodies will be resurrected one day. This is only because Jesus was resurrected too.

An important aspect of Christianity, a unique aspect really, is that Jesus is not just someone who came and showed us a way. He IS the way. He didn’t just give us a way to get to Heaven… to get there, we need to share in His own life and grace. That is what a lot of Christian theology is based on.

Hope this helps… God bless

 

[Monica4316]

so how can you have a single God when christians believe in three different distinct personalities that are all Gods.

You have the father in heaven. He’s God. You have the son on earth preaching. He’s God as well. And you have the holy spirit. inspiring people on earth. He’s God too. You can say all these three people are the same person when they are different in persoanlities.

When jesus say’s My father is greater than I It clearly shows that he’s referring to a Distinctive God in heavens. If jesus and the father are the same one God, then 'my father is greater than i makes no sense at all.

We believe in one God in three Persons… that is the Trinity. He is still one God. The reason we believe that God is love is because He is more than one Person: and they are all united and love one another, so He is love in His own nature. We can’t really understand the Holy Trinity logically. There have been some analogies… one that I’ve heard is this: imagine the sun… the sun is God the Father, the light is God the Son, and the warmth from the sun is God the Holy Spirit. There are not 3 suns, only one. But light is born from the sun (the Son of the Father), and the warmth comes from both (the Holy Spirit) while originating with the sun (the Father).

As a muslim we recognise jesus as the messiah unlike the jews. The only difference here is that we do not see jesus as God. God has no sons or daughters. God is eternal and has no beginning or end.

We also believe that God is eternal and has no beginning or end. It seems to me that you thinking of this in really human terms… (father, son). Christ is eternally begotten from the Father. He always was, just like the Father. But He has His origin in Him.

The original sin goes against the teachings of islam because it means man is born with a hereditary sin for which he’s not responsible and for that he ends up going to hell unless he believes in the blood and sacrifice of jesus. In islam we believe that every man is responsible for his own actions. What Adam and eve did has no bearing on me. Why should God almighty hold me and my family responsible for the actions of adam and eve?
Adam didnt ask for my permission before eating that apple nor did eve.

it’s not exactly like that… it’s not like we’re “responsible” for Adam’s sin. Rather, we inherited a corrupted nature… one that is weakened by the fall… we don’t naturally love God, and we easily sin. We die and get sick - that is one of the results of original sin.

There are millions of people out there who have no idea who jesus is. Millions died without hearing the word christ. Do they all end up in hell since they never accepted jesus?

the Catholic teaching is that if a person died without ever having heard of Christ, then He will judge them based on how they lived from what they did know… for example, their conscience. It’s harder this way because knowing Christ gives us graces and knowledge that we should follow the conscience. But it’s still possible to be saved this way and God doesn’t judge such people to the same standard. But for those who have heard of Christ, for them it depends on what they do with this knowledge and whether they reject it or not.

God bless

 

[Reuben_J]

The more I read posts in this thread, the weirder Christianity starts to seem.

I don’t see how this comment can be upbuilding to the discussion as it is. If Christianity is weird then that’s because Muslims do not have the proper intellect to understand it and many of them no doubt live until they die do not have the correct understanding of it. This is interesting because it is as if they are programmed not to understand it.

I have my personal opinion about Islam and it may not be flattering and normally I keep it to myself out of respect for Muslim posters here.

I notice too it seems to be a trend that when Muslims cannot answer questions in an inter-faith discussion that they started to become abusive, digress and even violence. Threads on Islam tend to be derailed and many of their posters banned. The comment above does nothing to allay this perception nor the fact that Islam tends to be seen as violence in itself.

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

We believe in one God in three Persons… that is the Trinity. He is still one God. The reason we believe that God is love is because He is more than one Person: and they are all united and love one another, so He is love in His own nature. We can’t really understand the Holy Trinity logically. There have been some analogies… one that I’ve heard is this: imagine the sun… the sun is God the Father, the light is God the Son, and the warmth from the sun is God the Holy Spirit. There are not 3 suns, only one. But light is born from the sun (the Son of the Father), and the warmth comes from both (the Holy Spirit) while originating with the sun (the Father).

**One God in three persons? would’nt that be three seperate Gods then? If jesus is God as you say he is then by definition of mathematics there are three seperate divine beings and not one.

Jesus came down to earth. The father was in the heavens. The son is on earth preaching. Now you tell me The father is God and the son is God. Then you have jesus saying my father is greater than I and my father is greater than all. What we have here is two distinct beings. So how can you say in all honesty than these two seperate beings are both Gods and yet at the same time only the same God. You can either have one God either jesus or the father or you can say two Gods as the father and the son. You can’t say they both Gods and yet are the same. They are not the same. Because the father is different from the son. The son says my father is greater than i.

The son would not never say that if he and the father are the same person.
**
We also believe that God is eternal and has no beginning or end. It seems to me that you thinking of this in really human terms… (father, son). Christ is eternally begotten from the Father. He always was, just like the Father. But He has His origin in Him.

so what does John 3:16 mean when the word begotten is used?

it’s not exactly like that… it’s not like we’re “responsible” for Adam’s sin. Rather, we inherited a corrupted nature… one that is weakened by the fall… we don’t naturally love God, and we easily sin. We die and get sick - that is one of the results of original sin.

**Inherited? that still means we as humans are paying the price for adam’s sin. If adam didnt eat that apple then we as humans would not be corrupt. So in a way it’s still Adam’s fault. **

the Catholic teaching is that if a person died without ever having heard of Christ, then He will judge them based on how they lived from what they did know… for example, their conscience. It’s harder this way because knowing Christ gives us graces and knowledge that we should follow the conscience. But it’s still possible to be saved this way and God doesn’t judge such people to the same standard. But for those who have heard of Christ, for them it depends on what they do with this knowledge and whether they reject it or not.

God bless
**
That’s is very just. I agree with you on that**

comments in black

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

But what does it mean that Jesus is the messiah to a muslim if Jesus is not the one who redeems us?

**In islam the status of jesus is very high. He is the messiah and performed many miracles with God’s permission. He was born from a virgin mother. But he does not redeem anyone. He is messenger chosen by God to show people the truth. Redemption comes from the atonement of one’s own sins. Not through the death of someone else. **

That is true about actual sin, that it can not be inherit. But Original Sin is not an actual sin, and it is not an actual sin that can be passed on. It is a condition that all mankind have after the fall of Adam and Eve, the propensity to sin. A sin is not such a personal event that it has no bearing on anyone else. So not only does the Fall of Adam and Eve effect us so does the sins of those around us and before us effect us too in some way even if we are not guilty for committing them. Jesus not only wipes away Original Sin but also actual sin too.

All actions a person does positive or negative does affect people around that person. Everybody from Christopher Columbus to Aristotle to anyone else you can think in history has an effect on our lives even today, whether we believe it or not. We might not know exactly who the first man and women were and where they lived, but yes they have an effect on us. Original Sin just is a belief that God created a world without sin or suffering for Original Man, and through disobedience sin and suffering entered the world and the one who could turn the tide of sin and suffering and restore our relationship with God is Jesus Christ.

**So let me and you agree for instance that when adam ate that apple. sin entered into the world and all humans have had the propensity to sin. Now let’s be clear. It is man who is the sinner here. So man who has the ability to know the difference between right and wrong is doomed. So God almighty goes down to earth in a form of a man, a man whom you believe is the son of God which really does not make any sense since God can’t be father of himself. So he goes down to earth and experiences everything humans do and sacrifices himself so that the sin is removed or in your case the relationship with God is restored.

Now One has to ask this question.

Why should the personal actions of two people who sinned affect us all? Why should all of us be made to pay the price for adam and eve’s sin? If today i went out and killed someone would you say it was fair if my family also is made responsible for my own actions? Would the police lock up my parents too for my own actions?

Secondly, if a good person dedicated his life to doing good deeds and helping out the needy but didn’t believe in jesus, his reward would be going to hell according to you. That he has done all sorts of good things and never comiited any sins and yet his problem was he didnt see jesus as someone who died for him. Where is the logic in that? If that man stood before God today and said 'God why have you punished me when i never ate from that tree? I have done all sorts of Good things and never did sin during my time on earth.
You could be forgiven for thinking the man has a point.

Consequences for actions done falls on those of the who have done it. If i killed hundreds of people, my actions would affect a lot of people’s lives. But the punishment for killing will fall on me and me alone. That is justice. And God almighty is not just.
**

Not hearing the word Jesus Christ, you could not say they rejected Him, so they are better off then those who have heard and rejected Him in various ways.

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

That’s what revelation is all about from the Old Testament through the NT. Jesus is the ultimate revelation of God-“When you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father.” John 14:9

If that’s the case then why would God Pray to himself when jesus said God why has thou forsaken me? why would Jesus say my father is greater than all? If he is that God in heavens who came down to earth then either there has to be another God jesus was talking about or he’s confused about his own identity.

 

[rand_al_thor_1]

Dear rand al thor,

You’re father is one man. He is your father. But he also has his own father, so he is also a son. If you’re father had a wife, he is also a husband. If your father has a friend, then he is also a friend. And if he had a brother, then he is also a brother.

So you’re father is himself a father, a son, a husband, a brother, and a friend - does that mean he is not one man ?

yes he is only one man but you can’t say i and my father are the same person. Or my father and his father are the same Would you?

And these people, such as you (his son), his wife, his brother, and his friend(s) - they all know you’re father, but they did not all have the same relationship with your father (obviously ! We have very, very different relationships with our wives, our children, and our friends, and so on : but yet they all still know us).

Now you’re father might have revealed things to you that no one else knows, because you are his son. And because he is your father, you probably know him better than other people do. Those things your father told you about himself is his revelation about himself to you, his son. He probably told you these things by his own self-expression ; that is, by his word and by his example to you.

Now I am using things human to help explain things divine, but it is important to remember that God Himself created humanity, and He also created family (by making Eve and also by instituting marriage), and He did all of this before man first sinned. He did this freely for mankind.

Our human parents are not perfect ; however, they are modeled from (or after) God’s own image. Motherhood and fatherhood were created by God. These are examples of his self-expression (revelation) to man. Our mothers and our fathers are good mothers or fathers when they are like God, because God is the perfect parent, He is the perfect Father.

Now in Christian countries adoption of children is encouraged so that little children can grow up in a safe and loving home, and become themselves one day good parents. When we adopt children, (even though these children are not our biological children, and they come from different parents), we still treat them as our own children. If humans, out of love, are willing to adopt strange children to care for them, then what is preventing God from adopting fallen mankind to be His own children ? If God truly is God, then He can do anything good.

These are difficult things, but this is my way of understanding how we Christians understand God. We view Him as God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit : three persons in perfect relationship to each other, but still one God, one Being. This is the inner life of God that He invites all mankind to share in by becoming a member of His Holy Family, Christ and Mary’s family, the Church.

Pax (Latin for “peace”),
Tim

if you say a particular person is the son of God literally then it creates a whole lot of problems and questions. If it’s a metaphor to show the close relationship between that person and God himself then i have no problems with that. If unity of purpose means that one becames a son of God then abraham, noah, jacob are sons of God. I have no problem with that. The moment You say that someone is literally the Son of God then it becames an issue.

 

[dzheremi]

One God in three persons? would’nt that be three seperate Gods then? If jesus is God as you say he is then by definition of mathematics there are three seperate divine beings and not one.

The thing is, Rand al Thor, Jesus is not God “by definition of Mathematics” any more than God the Father is God by definition of Mathematics or the Holy Spirit is God by definition of Mathematics. As a Muslim, do you say that Allah is God “by definition of Mathematics”? I should hope not! We don’t either. The uncreated and undivided Holy Trinity is not a math problem. I hope you’ll agree that God is absolutely above such human things.

Jesus came down to earth. The father was in the heavens. The son is on earth preaching. Now you tell me The father is God and the son is God.

Yes. Jesus is the incarnate Word/Wisdom (“Logos”) of God the Father, who dwelt among us, did the work of the Father, preaching and performing miracles.

Then you have jesus saying my father is greater than I and my father is greater than all. What we have here is two distinct beings.

So what you are saying is that God’s wisdom is separate from Him? We have God somewhere up in the heavens and somewhere else, completely away from Him, His Wisdom? I cannot agree with that. We say that Jesus is the incarnate Word/Wisdom/Logos (“Logos” means both word AND wisdom) because it is through the incarnation that He came to dwell among us, but I ask you: Is God’s wisdom finite or infinite? After God creates one thing is He out of “creative juice” and He cannot create anymore until He replenishes Himself? That would be a strange way to think of God, and very much out of sync with the explanation of God’s creative powers in the Qur’an (from what I remember, God simple says “be!” and it is). So we would say the same of Jesus Christ, who is God at the same time as God the Father exists in the heavens above, because His wisdom, His Word, His Logos is NEVER separate from Him.

In the Qur’an, God says “be!” and it is. In the Holy Bible, God does that too (see Genesis 1:3), but not only that. In the Holy Bible, God sends His “Logos” to dwell among us, by the power of the Holy Spirit (God) the Logos is incarnate and does indeed dwell among us in the person of Jesus Christ. And who is the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is also God. Look at the second verse of the book of Genesis:

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The “spirit of God”. Admittedly, this is not the Holy Trinity in its known fullness, as that cannot be known in full until after the incarnation, but this does show that the ancient writers recognized the Spirit of God. We do as well, and in the incarnation it is that same spirit that comes upon the Holy Virgin St. Mary, who carried Our Savior in her womb.

I am not a theologian by any means, and this is only my own understanding of what I freely admit is beyond full human comprehension. Many theologians have written about the Trinity, and I invite you to read them to come to a better understanding of these subjects which are giving you trouble. The writings of the Church Fathers are widely disseminated, to the point that you can put in “Early Church Fathers”, “Apostolic Fathers”, or “Desert Fathers” into Google and come up with thousands upon thousands of resources.

So how can you say in all honesty than these two seperate beings are both Gods and yet at the same time only the same God.

Firstly, we don’t say “beings”, we say “persons”, mainly to avoid having to explain “hypostasis” to non-Greek speaking Christians. The meaning behind the use of these different terms is highly technical and would require many, many separate threads to fully elucidate. It is sufficient for one thread to say that, as I have tried to explain above, they are not “two separate beings” in the way that you might see a human father and son and say they are obviously separate. This is God we are talking about, not a human being.

You can either have one God either jesus or the father or you can say two Gods as the father and the son. You can’t say they both Gods and yet are the same. They are not the same.

To say that we cannot say that the Holy Trinity IS the One God is to tell God that He is wrong in having revealed Himself to us in a way that you do not accept. This is an affront to God and also horribly rude to the Christian hosts of this website and message board. Please remember that you are not on an Islamic message board and frame your objections accordingly, as a guest here. That said, we can and do indeed say that which you say we cannot say, and we will continue to say it because it is the truth. It is the truth whether everyone believes it or no one believes it, because God exists whether or not anyone understands Him or believes in Him.

Because the father is different from the son. The son says my father is greater than i.

The Father is indeed not the Son, and the Son is indeed not the Father, and the Holy Spirit is indeed not either. This is not a problem; this is the proper relationship of the persons within the Trinity. Once you understand this relationship, it is right and true that the Son should say that the Father is greater than Him, because the Father is the origin of all. Remember, the Son is the Father’s “Logos”, which does not exist separately from Him. They are of one nature/essence, never acting in disconcert, but completely and totally united.