They just don't get it!

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Marilena

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My husband had a Catechism lesson last night with Father. We were talking about Jesus giving the apostles the power to forgive sins.

Why don’t they get it? Jw’s claim that Christ is not God right? if that is the case, then how can an angel give the apostles the power to forgive sins? Jesus can and did give them the power to forgive sins because He is God.

Angels cannot forgive sins, nor can an angel resurrect the dead, heal the lame, cure the blind, so on. Christ can. ( they claim that God gave Him the power to do so ) They do agree however, that angels cannot forgive sins, or grant everlasting life, or judge anyone. So, if Jesus is truly Micheal the Archangel, how can He do any of this? Another point, one of you posters please look up the scripture in the NT where it states that Christ would under His own power be raised from the dead. Since they claim He is not God, how can He under His own power, be raised from the dead?

They don’t get it… Jesus is God. Why would God need to give Christ power to forgive sins and heal people and raise the dead? According to them, for God’s glory.

They are tough nuts to crack. I told them, take a look at the scriptures, Matt 4:10 Jude 9… they still don’t get it. sighhhhhhh… let’s have some of you posters show the scriptures in Acts where Christ gave the apostles the power to forgive sins, and please show the scripture where He says what you bind on earth, you bind in heaven, and what you loose on earth, you loose in heaven. show us the scripture please.

I will continue to pray that at least one of them finally gets it!
CHRIST IS GOD.
 
Note, iam not sure if it states it in Acts, but here is one from John: ( although i did think it stated it in Acts )

John 20:
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.

23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
 
19 On the evening of that first day of the week,
when the doors were locked, where the
disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus
came and stood in their midst and said to
them, "Peace be with you."
20 When he had said this, he showed them his
hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced
when they saw the Lord.
21 (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be
with you. As the Father has sent me,
so I send you."
22 And when he had said this, he breathed
on them and said to them, "Receive
the holy Spirit.
23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven
them, and whose sins you retain are
retained." Jn 20:19-23

When I speak about Jesus passing on His power because God gave Him the power to forgive sins I like to put up these verses from 19 and not just from verse 22.

It’s important that your husband (and all Protestants) know that Jesus was ONLY talking to the apostles who were in that room. No one else was in there. So if there is someone else that claims that they can forgive sins, they would be lying unless they can trace their succession all the way back to Jesus via the Apostles. Another important thing here to know is that Jesus did send “humans” to forgive sins. Yes Priests can forgive sins because Jesus gave them the power to do so! :yup:

They also have to know that Jesus says that God has sent Him and now He is sending these apostles (Priests who were actually Bishops) and giving them power to forgive sins as they received the Holy Spirit from Jesus’ own breath.
 
Marilena said:
Why don’t they get it? Jw’s claim that Christ is not God right? if that is the case, then how can an angel give the apostles the power to forgive sins? Jesus can and did give them the power to forgive sins because He is God.
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It seems your husband really needs to know specifically verse 21 where Jesus says, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” Jesus did send someone to forgive sins. But protestants seem to overlook this. They say, I go straight to Jesus as if we don’t. I guess they would need to understand the Sacrament of Confession.

Here is a quote from my post in a Confession thread. These are Jesus’ words to Sister Faustina. I know Protestants don’t have to believe this private revelation but this is the best way to describe it as I do not have better words than Jesus does when he describes Confession and how it is Him that is really there in the Confessional.
AlegreFe said:
When you go to confession, to this fountain
of My mercy, the blood and water which came
forth from my heart always flow down upon
your soul and ennoble it. Every time you go
to confession, immerse yourself entirely in My
mercy, with great trust so that I may pour the
bounty of My grace upon your soul. When you
approach the confessional, know this, that I
Myself am waiting there for you. I am only hidden
by the priest, but I Myself act in your soul. Here
the misery of the soul meets the God of Mercy.
Tell souls that from this Fount of Mercy souls
draw graces solely with the vessel of trust.
If their trust is great, there is no limit to my
generosity. The torrents of grace inundate humble
souls. The proud remain always in poverty and
misery, because my grace turns away from them
to humble souls. (1602)
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Allegra,.

i think your confusing something. this post is about jw’s not getting the fact that Jesus is God. Its not about my husband or his Catechism. i was only relating the point he had learned in his Catechism about Jesus giving the disciples the power to forgive sins. Not that my husband didn’t get it because he does.

this post has nothing to do with my husband.
 
13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea
Philippi he asked his disciples, “Who do people
say that the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist,
others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of
the prophets.”
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that
I am?"
16 Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the
Messiah, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are
you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and
blood has not revealed this to you, but
my heavenly Father.
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church, and
the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail
against it.
19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of
heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be
bound in heaven; and whatever you loose
on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 16:13-19

We have to remember here that Jesus spoke in Aramaic and in that language Peter is Kepha which actually means Rock. So Jesus changed Simon’s name to Kepha which is Rock. So it would sound better to say that Jesus said, "You are Rock and upon this Rock I will build My Church."

So our new rock is Pope Benedict XVI! And I am glad to be on Peter’s boat!! I have no intention on throwing a small raft overboard and getting in that small tiny raft in the great big ocean. That raft might eventually sink in that great big ocean and I don’t want to sink. I am staying with Peter to spite Judas.
 
Marilena said:
Allegra
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http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Laughing.gif I’m not an alergy medicine. It’s “Alegre” which means “Happy” in Spanish; but you can call me Sandy. 👍 🙂
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Marilena:
i think your confusing something. this post is about jw’s not getting the fact that Jesus is God. Its not about my husband or his Catechism. i was only relating the point he had learned in his Catechism about Jesus giving the disciples the power to forgive sins. Not that my husband didn’t get it because he does.
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I was actually confusing the fact that your husband might be a jw but I guess he’s not. So why mention your husband then? :confused: I don’t get it.

But I was not confusing the fact that they don’t think that Jesus is God. I am aware that they think He is St. Michael the Archangel come back or something.

But those verses at least say that God did send Jesus to forgive sins and then in turn Jesus did send these apostles to forgive sins making it possible for all priests to forgive sins because these priests were ordained by Bishops who laid hands on them and these Bishops can trace their laying on of hands back to these apostles who got their power from Jesus who got His power from God. whew…
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Marilena:
this post has nothing to do with my husband.
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Nothing at all? Then why did you mention him in your OP? :confused:

But I do understand that now. 👍 sorry. :o
 
1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth. John 1:1-2, 14

Who do the jw’s think that this Word became Flesh is? Do they actually think that it’s St. Michael?
 
AlegreFe said:
1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth. John 1:1-2, 14

Who do the jw’s think that this Word became Flesh is? Do they actually think that it’s St. Michael?
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yes they do.
 
AlegreFe said:
Who do the jw’s think that this Word became Flesh is? Do they actually think that it’s St. Michael?
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They believe he’s both Michael the archangel and the Word that became flesh.

For Michael the archangel they assume Michael is Jesus… just take a look at this:
“War broke out in heaven: Michael [Christ in heavenly power] and his angels battled with the dragon [Satan], and the dragon and its angels [the demons] battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”—Revelation 12:7-9.
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I got this from here and scroll down to “Another Factor”.

For the Word becoming Flesh just remember that their bible says:
John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
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Our Bible says:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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Our Bible says he was God, and the NWT says it was a god…

They really don’t know who Jesus is…!! :mad:
 
yessisan said:
They believe he’s both Michael the archangel and the Word that became flesh.
For Michael the archangel they assume Michael is Jesus… just take a look at this:
I got this from here and scroll down to “Another Factor”.
Our Bible says he was God, and the NWT says it was a god…
They really don’t know who Jesus is…!! :mad:
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:whacky: I can understand how this would drive anyone nuts. I know some JW’s but they moved away. They were really nice people though. Too bad all that niceness will not get them into Heaven unless God really has Mercy on them. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Dontknow3.gif
 
I Just got the most weird news flash. I am going to start a thread, but I was nervous doing it since that thread about is there too many Jw threads.

This is just mind blowing to me, but may help you see how they not only dont get it, but they have some realllllly weird ideas about some realllly basic things!

I will hope you all will post on my new thread “was it marble or wood?”
 
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