"They" (the Church) will tell you what to think!

[Micawber]

I have been wrestling with my own decision with whether to convert to Catholicism for many years now. Coming from the anglo side, I’ve been discovering in my reading that there are a great many myths and fears about Catholicism, most of which are seriously skewed bits of misinformation. A veritable PR nightmare!

Over the 4th, I was discussing this decision with my Mother, who was imploring me to stay “Anglo-side” of Catholicism.

One of her constant refrains was that “they” (Church hierarchy, etc.) tell you what to think.

I was trying to say that it’s precisely the lack of the Mysterium that’s getting “our” church into trouble. That it’s not about them “telling” parishioners what to think, but about guiding souls away from the world that, in fact, DOES tell you what to think - and that what it tells you leads you away from the Truth, and is harmful. What is wrong with “teaching” the truth? Et cetera…

However, all this ^^ to her still sounds “authoritarian.”

How can I explain this better? Is there a good book I can send her (after reading it myself!!! )

Thanks all!

Cheers & happy 4th! ~cawbs

 

[Eucharisted]

If “they” told us what to think, than why don’t “they” tell us to give them lots of money?

If “they” told us what to think, than why don’t “they” tell us how to live our whole lives?

If “they” told us what to think, than why don’t “they” tell us how to respond to question?

Scientology tells its followers to give them lots of money. Islam tell its followers how to live their lives. Jehovah Witnesses tell its followers what answers to give to certain questions. If “they” tell us what to think, than why don’t “they” act like other religions and cults that tell people what to think?

 

[Micawber]

If “they” told us what to think, than why don’t “they” tell us to give them lots of money?

If “they” told us what to think, than why don’t “they” tell us how to live our whole lives?

If “they” told us what to think, than why don’t “they” tell us how to respond to question?

Scientology tells its followers to give them lots of money. Islam tell its followers how to live their lives. Jehovah Witnesses tell its followers what answers to give to certain questions. If “they” tell us what to think, than why don’t “they” act like other religions and cults that tell people what to think?

Well, see, in her mind “they” will tell her what to think about, say, abortion, homosexual marriage, etc. There is some truth to this.

I say to her that “they” are only trying to tell you the truth about these things, which has been carefully hidden from you.

This to her is still authoritarian. I guess she sees all “teaching” as authoritarian? Poor mother!

 

[Eucharisted]

Well, see, in her mind “they” will tell her what to think about, say, abortion, homosexual marriage, etc. There is some truth to this.

I say to her that “they” are only trying to tell you the truth about these things, which has been carefully hidden from you.

This to her is still authoritarian. I guess she sees all “teaching” as authoritarian? Poor mother!

Has she researched why the Church believes what it dose? That’s a necessary thing to do if you’re Catholic. Blind faith is a big no no.

 

[Micawber]

Has she researched why the Church believes what it dose? That’s a necessary thing to do if you’re Catholic. Blind faith is a big no no.

She’s a liberal Anglican. Bishop Robinson is her hero. She hasn’t the slightest idea of why the Church believes what it does. However, she’s sure she doesn’t want to hear any of it.

She doesn’t agree with the Church’s stance on many issues; what’s more, she thinks that any “institution” that teaches you is “telling you what to think” and “authoritarian.” That’s the problem.

I guess I’m wondering if anyone has any advice on how to handle this situation - if not verbally (prolly too complex), is there a book I can send to her?

 

[musicality]

She hasn’t the slightest idea of why the Church believes what it does.

I think this is one of the most important things right there – so many people would be more accepting of Church teaching if they knew the reasoning behind it. I only wish that more people would ask “Why?” and get a good answer…

 

[Micawber]

I think it’s almost easier for an evangelical Protestant to understand the Catholic Church than it is for a liberal Anglican. The reason being that evangelicals are (usually) not infected with relativism - which is the festering sore at the heart of the Anglican Church. Relativism is - in my view - quite literally Satan’s way of diverting you from the Truth.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I have been wrestling with my own decision with whether to convert to Catholicism for many years now. Coming from the anglo side, I’ve been discovering in my reading that there are a great many myths and fears about Catholicism, most of which are seriously skewed bits of misinformation. A veritable PR nightmare!

Over the 4th, I was discussing this decision with my Mother, who was imploring me to stay “Anglo-side” of Catholicism.

One of her constant refrains was that “they” (Church hierarchy, etc.) tell you what to think.

I was trying to say that it’s precisely the lack of the Mysterium that’s getting “our” church into trouble. That it’s not about them “telling” parishioners what to think, but about guiding souls away from the world that, in fact, DOES tell you what to think - and that what it tells you leads you away from the Truth, and is harmful. What is wrong with “teaching” the truth? Et cetera…

However, all this ^^ to her still sounds “authoritarian.”

How can I explain this better? Is there a good book I can send her (after reading it myself!!! )

Thanks all!

Cheers & happy 4th! ~cawbs

Christ is the authority, so I guess you could say that the Church is “Authoritarian” since it is Christ’s Church. The Truth is the Truth no matter if we agree with it/accept it, or not. IT is what it is. Don’t let anyone mislead you into thinking that there is an “Anglo-side” of Catholicism. Catholicism doesn’t have parts, it’s not made up of different denominations. The Church is Catholic, whole and complete.

 

[Thinkaboutit]

I have been wrestling with my own decision with whether to convert to Catholicism for many years now. Coming from the anglo side, I’ve been discovering in my reading that there are a great many myths and fears about Catholicism, most of which are seriously skewed bits of misinformation. A veritable PR nightmare!

Over the 4th, I was discussing this decision with my Mother, who was imploring me to stay “Anglo-side” of Catholicism.

One of her constant refrains was that “they” (Church hierarchy, etc.) tell you what to think.

I was trying to say that it’s precisely the lack of the Mysterium that’s getting “our” church into trouble. That it’s not about them “telling” parishioners what to think, but about guiding souls away from the world that, in fact, DOES tell you what to think - and that what it tells you leads you away from the Truth, and is harmful. What is wrong with “teaching” the truth? Et cetera…

However, all this ^^ to her still sounds “authoritarian.”

How can I explain this better? Is there a good book I can send her (after reading it myself!!! )

Thanks all!

Cheers & happy 4th! ~cawbs

after reading your post i couldnt help to T̛̜̟͙̳̺̝͕͉̘̯̘̯̓ͦ̌ͥ͌͌ͮ͊̅ͮͭ̾̽͛̒͜͡ͅȏ͋̏̽̈́̐͆ͩͯ̒ͨͮ̇̋͠҉̷̧̛̤̰̳̺̜̻͚ͅ ̸̴̡͎̭̟̗̞̭̫̖̲̥̞͓̬̺͉̖̥͉ͯͫ̌̀ī̍ͩ̒̇҉̵̡̧͎̻͇̝n̶̙͔͍͍̒̔ͤͣ̑͒ͧ̆̓́̓̑̊͌̓̉ͦ̀́́͘v̶͍͚̗͚̫̬̺̥̟̣̖̟̪̹͇͈̦̠̳̉ͮ̎̈́ͭͪ̾̿͒ͮ̔̓́͠ǫ͆ͯͨ̂͊͑͆ͪͪ͘͝҉̞̬̻̲̖̮͙k̶̷̲͉͕̩̦̠̺̦͙̞̜̘̰̜̇ͨ̓́ͤͧ̿̌͗̓̏̀̌ͭ͑ͫ͜͟e̵̠̪̩̻̩̞̘̖̳ͨ̓ͭͬ͌ͮͤ̂ͧ͐̅̿̊͗̃͛̂̚͡ ̴̴̖̰͙͇̱͚̭́̃̆̈̊̿̔͒̆̚̚̚͟t̴̹̰̘̥̳̹̘̳̮͍͚̰̜̻̻͈ͫ̈́̈́ͫͭ͐͐͘͡͡h̨̰͙̲̙͓̜̲͍̱̥̱͕͇̩̖̜ͨ͂̈́̑̇̅̀͟͡ͅe̴͙̺̭̥̤̍͛ͯ̓͊͂͑ͯ͐̏ͤ̈̿ͣ̿́̕͜ ̵̜̲͖̭̬̣͙͚̠̳̪͖͇̞̄̆ͣͫ̏͑ͣ̃̈́͘̕͝ḩ̸͊͌͐ͪ̓̔͊͂̽̏̌͐̈̓͘͘҉̫̗̱͚̞͉͙̟͕̬̟ͅi̷̵̧͓̗̟̲͓͇̞̯̜̤͔͖̻͓͚ͫ̿ͣͯͨͯͥͭͮ̃̿ͥ͑͋̍̎́͘ͅͅv̵̸̲̹͎̱̩̯̬͉̰̩̲̮͓̮͂ͧ̃̌ͦͥ̉̔͛̆̂ͯ̿ͮͣ̈́̚͝ȅ̷̢̨͕͉͇̪̗̤ͭ́̐̆͒ͪ̏̽͒̇̃̈́͌̈́ͬ̀̚ͅͅ-̢̠̯͓̞͙ͥ̇͗ͯ̌̈́̐ͬ͊̒̇̃̔̊̋͝m̴̭̰̣̱̄̈̂͋̾͋ͬ̂̀͛͜͢͡i̴̧̧̛͈̰͕͇͙̖̣͕̝͙̱̬̋̇̿ͧͭ̑́̔ͫ̕n̗͈̗̥̼͖̥ͣ͑ͪ̿̚͘͜͢͝d̻͙͚̙͕̥͈̯̝̫͎̣̬͔̭̏̄ͪ̆͒͑̓̊ͤ͒̋͑͢͝͞͠ͅ ̆̆͆̏ͥͮ͗̄͌ͤͪ̅ͤ͋͗҉̗̬̙̫̳̞̦̥̳̝͕͕̯̤̭̬̩̥͍͢͢͝r̢̛̞̤̹̩̞͔̺ͮ̃̒ͨ̀ͥ͒̀͟͢e͑͒̎̄̄ͮ̀҉̛͙̦̣͇̩͘p̮͓̯̖͈̜͉̖̹̰͇̫̫̩͍̘̠͓͌ͩ̾̃ͫ͐̌͋̈͛̓̒ͫͩͪ̈ͣ͌̚̕͞ͅŕ̬̜̣̘̫̲̜̱̥͓̲̞̲̃̋̔̇͘͠è͐́̎ͯ̋͒͐ͮͦͮ̈͋ͪ̍̾̎ͪ̉҉̨̧͓͖̟͚̙̝̱̹̫̟̻͔ş̋̅ͤ͆͑͑̒ͦͥ̈́̎͂́̚͏͍̜̝̞͙̻̙̙̘̪̼̘͕͈͙̺̙͉e̍̓̀ͣͧ̋͆̆͟͡͡͏̱͓̩̦̺̬̝̖̳̠͕͓̱ṅ̸͈̪͓̩̱̯̩̙̫̥̹̱̗̦̽̍͢t̝̳͚̰̱̘̞̭͉͎͚̙͈̟̀ͥ̈́̽ͭ̓̄͌͆͑͝͞ï̵̗̱͇̹͑ͯ̾̇͑ͦ̚͟n̴͚͉̭͉̫̙̦͕̭̮͕̎ͭ̂̈́͑͆̔̓ͬͪ͛͂͞g̶̴̡̬̝̲͍̪̙̔̀̋͊̏͛ ̶̴̨̮̺͕̈́͋͌c̝͙̦̥͕̘̬̭̪̯̙͉̏ͨ͛̈̐̌̑̀͡h̴̵̨̠̳̭͚͐ͥ̈̄͛̽ͪ͒ͯ̑̽a̧̘͈͚̙͕̰̰̦͆̑ͨͯ̇̾̐́ō͙̳̲͓͔͚ͥ̿͂̀̕͝͠͝ş̿ͧ͋̒̋͋̑̕͢͏̢̼̟̰͍̝̤͎̣̱̣̼̲.̸̨͖̮͍̜͇̹̳͔̘͚̥̰͑ͥ̄̊̿̓̆ͭ͂̚̕
̡̡͚̟͉͕̩̪͕̀̔̆̓ͨ͛̇ͦ̍̀̍̀̑͊̽̌ͤ̈ͯ͢͞ͅI̷̛͈̟̟̩͈͎̖̯̯̠͊͗ͪ̄ͧ̈͂ͩ̋̍ͪ̀͛́͡ń̎ͭ̒̒͑͜͏̡̞͚̯̤̬̠ͅv̢̡̯̤͈͉ͧ̎̇ͭ͆ͫ̉͛ͣ̑͠͠o̠͍̝̫̯͕̹͕̠̟̹̮̙͗ͬͬͫ͂̓ͩ͘͟͢͞͝ͅͅk̷̡̬̮̻͔̫̞̩͙̞̺ͥ͆ͩ̈iͩ̑ͮ́̈́̆̈̀ͥͧͩ̐̽͆͐̔͠҉͚̫͚̖̜̖͕̘̯͉̘͟ͅn̩̞̹͕̘͇̰̤̬͇͕̮͊̄̄̐ͨͧ̔͆ͯ̾̈ͯ̚͘g̷̡̛̩̘̭ͫͫͣ̿ͫ̆͌͛ ̸̡̠̲̺̩͔̣͍̱̺̗̜̲̼̮͕̱͔͕̾͒ͨ̓͑̆̏͆ͭ̌̃͢͞͞ͅt̼̫̼̺͚̦͍̣̱̝̺̥̤̺̂̓͗͑͠ḧ̸̢͙̙̼̯̙̻̘̮̫͕͕͔̗́̉͛̑ͥ̑̈́̚̚e̼̩̝̣͍̗̱̻̖̮̺̯͖̙͚ͤ̾͐̋̋͠ͅ ̞̫̼͚̼͎̹͔̘̮̪̫͚ͤ̅ͦ̎̍̅̿͜͝f̾̆ͯ̏͛̆̋̊̆̋ͮ͂̔ͬ͂ͦ̔̋̓͟͏̹̣͙͕͇̫̝͙̞͟͡e̷̵̸̛̙̪̜̩̗̞̪ͦ̓̍̍ͧͫ̃ͥ̅̐͒̎ͧ̏͆͋͐̾̚e̡̨̧͚̲͖̦̺̳͚̲͓͖̖̞͎̲̫̯͙̮͓̊̈̒͋͢͟l̸ͫ̑ͤ̉̋̓ͨͥͤͪ̔ͮ̇͌ͨͯ͡҉̛̦̫͓̼̙̹̤̫̖̠͔̠̦̲̗͝ͅi̶̡͇̮̹̝͙̣̠̺͇͖̯͙̬̰͍̻̙ͧ̋̽̈́́̚n̵̏̃ͮ̾̊̾̽̎ͫ̔ͤ͟҉͖̳̠̬̻͔̯̞g̸̡͕͈̟͉͔̺͙͓̖͈̤̥͇̳̙̮͇̰̓ͪͣ͑̍̅͗̊͘ ̷̵͈̝͖̣̟̘̦̪̰͙̎̇̓͑͑ͣ͆͆͋͢ͅo̷͉͔̠̗̝̞̘̒̔ͪ̽̃̓̓̑ͯ́̈́ͮ͑̈́ͫ̚̚̚̚͘͢͟͡f̫͉̝̗̝̎̃͋ͥͯͫ̌ͮ̈́̎̽ͩͮ͒̽͂͑̌͋́͘͜͢͞ͅ ̸̡̨̨̑͆ͬͪͦͮ̓͐̌̒̂̌͊҉̭͚͉͉c̦͍̖̼͓̩͕̥͙̻̮̲͕͖̫͎̙̤͈̍ͫ̑ͮ̊̎͋ͥ̚͜͡ḩ̢̯̰͇̮̘̲̖̺̣̮̣̟̼ͨͣͦ̌̑ͮ́͠a̢̜͕̰̺̪͙̠͙͈̟ͣͣ͛͌̈̐̎̆ͩo̡̧̝͉͉̦̱̙̻̹ͯ͆ͨ͗̃̋̐̕͟͞s̶̜͖̬̮̮̞̣̜͓̪͕͖̭̟̣̄̎ͤ̅ͦ̃̑͐ͥ͗ͥ̈̒ͣ̀͞.̡̫͙̦̦̣̼̠͎̱͔̰̙̺̮͉ͭͧ͌̆̿͌ͮͧ̑ͨ̒ͨ̕͟͡
̶̢̟̹͕̰̺̳̦̤̞͉̬̣̺̎̀͂͒ͩͮ̽ͫ̐̾ͧ͋ͩ͡W̢ͩ̽̇ͬ҉͕̭̙̣̭̰̜̪͕ị̡͉̖̻̳͐̔ͤͧ́̎̋ͫ̏͌͛̌ͤ́̕͠t̂̿ͪ͊ͤ̽ͥ̅ͮͮ̂ͣ͏͡҉̛̫̩̼̺̞͔͟ḩ̸̛̓̌̋ͬ̊͆̏̇҉͈͉̯̝͚̦̤̜̬̣̙͠ͅ ̶̹̳̹̹̩̙̘ͨͬ͆̔̈͂ͬͩͩ̔́ͪ͊̌͟͞õ̅ͩ̒͒̏ͩͨ̍ͯ̅ͬͯ̐̚͏͏̨̱̯̙̲̰̩̗͕̬̙̪͕̯͖͇̤͚͡u͑̓͑̽̐͑ͬ̌ͭ͂̈́̾́͏̝̤̱̣̫̞͖͓̹̼͉̘̜̫̳́ͅt͕͇̖̜̬̥̫͗ͯ̉͆̋̄ͦ͗̅ͩ̉ͯ̾͢͠ ̽ͭ̑̔ͫ̈ͫ̋̌͏̨͕̩̜̰͚̤̖̰͈̲͉͘͘͡ǫ̞͚̫̮̭͙͎͖̪̲̅̔͑ͦ̃͞ͅr̀ͤ̽͋͠҉̵̺̘̫̣͉̹͙̝̞̯̥̯d̛͈̞̯͇̖͙̻͓̘̱̋̓ͩ͂̔̂ͪ̈́͛͊ͯͨ̄̚͠ë̢̧̢͎̤͙̯͉̮̹̞͕̖͍́̊ͪ͌ͩ̅͒͋̑̏̀͢ȑͪ̈́ͧ̓͒ͯ̃̓̈̒͏̷́͏̣̭͓̦̮̼.̵̥̳̗̝̙̪̠͔͍͓̩͙͙̻̖̞͋̎̒̄̈́̓̿̇̕͢ͅ
̡̫̱̻͍̮͎ͨ͐͂̀ͤͧͤ͑ͯ̔̿͊̎͘Ṱ̨̻̩͈̱̺̮̦̮̬̻̪̠̎̽ͫ̀ͧͭͯ͗ͥ̃̉ͤ͡ͅẖ̛̫̟̳͖̰͓̣̖̫̦͓͒͌̍ͣ̈́̽ͩͧ͛̂͘͘͢ė̴͙̤̝̝̟̫̟̲̄̒̆̊ͩ̆̍ͤ̓̐͐ͮ͛̎̅ͨ͝ͅ ̨́̉̉̍҉̶̛͕̳̣͓̳̗̯̫͕̼̱̮͚͈̣̲̣̕ͅṆ̵̞̰̻͍̖̥̘̙̣̼̪̥̤̗̦̹̱́̄͐ͪͮ̑́̚͠ḝ̨̜̺̮̼̦̭̳̐͆̑ͤ̒̏͛̇̇̿̓ͣ̿̈́̉ͣͅͅz̷̶̹̱̹̈́̽͌̋͌ͤͫͭ̓̇̂́ͪ̅͆ͦ̏͜͝ͅp̅̎ͩͬͥ̈́͟͜͞͏̹͉̗͇͓̮͔̥͈ę̷͊̈ͫ̄ͫ̃͗ͦ͊͊̀͋̽̋̌̚͡͏̝̦̙̜̤̻̥̥͔͍͜r̂ͦ̍̇̓̊̒̐͌ͪͦ̾͏̵̧͍̝͙͇̺̖̼̘͘d̶͓̬̘̮̦̫̣̩̲̆͋́ͮͫ͐̓ͨ̔̂ͦͯ̾͜͜i̡̠̲̭̮̭͓̩̱̤̠͉̪͊̇̂̉̿ͣ̍̍́ͅå̐͌̿̔͛͐͗ͫ͐͐̆ͫͨ̚͡͏̨̺̹̻̘̖̠̹͇͙̕͠ṉ̵̪̦̥̓͗̔ͭ͒͒̕͟ ̷̡̛͎͎͉̲̬̥̞̣͍͈̰͖͕̟̯͈̖̭̓̑ͨ̃̔͗ͥ̈̕h̵̛̛̜̺͕̥̟̱̟̹͇̼͎̣̠̠͖͓̘ͮ̏̄̔ͩ̃̌͒̽̃̔̽̂ͥͫͯ͌ͮ͟͡í̵̢̨̘͎͚͚̫͎̬̱͕̣̀ͪ̽͆̆̔́ͫ̉̆ͪ̔ͭ͑̽̓̾́̚͟v̴̸̡̩̮̹̻͕̫̗̭͊̃̄̈́̓́͟e̷͔͙̰͕͙̫̲̮̭̣͐ͥ̓̈͋͗ͩ͗̑͌̓ͣ̒ͣ̃̀̕͟-̫̪̗̣̭̙̪̬̬͓̮̪̝͉̱̲̭̜̓͌ͣ̐͊ͩ͗̾͛͗ͪ̍́̚̕͢m̷̡̫͕͈͍̬̞̰͈̝̳͉̳̬̬̼̊ͦͫ̔̆̈́ͨ͂͆̔ͣ͛̈̓̈́͟͞i̵̶͉̫̼͓͚̯̱̥͔̻̻̞̮͇̥͕̮̣͂̿ͭ̏́͘͡ͅn̳̩̝̞̝͙̹͛̈ͧ̆̄̉ͪ̒̓̑ͥ̋̌̀̑͛̒̑͒͞d̴͉̞̹̙̯̩̪̻͚̹̝̯̝͓͚̹̮ͨ̾ͦ̃̐ͨ͜͞ ̸̴̴̡̤̳̙̥̯̖͊ͪ̏͒̌̽̎͋o̒̒ͨ͒̇̚͏̷̡̹̱̠͙̳̘̜̟͍̻͜f̶̓͑͂̽ͭ̄̽̇́̿͂̒ͧ҉̶̵͔͙͙͎̣͇͍̮̮͍̺͡ ̟̫͎̟̙̳̘͈͙̰̙̞͕̱̼̙͎͎̓͗̉̾̓̋̾̿ͭ́͜c̎ͤ͊̚͏̴̷̝̻̖͎̮͚̗̖̩͓̟̭̟͕ḧ́ͨ͋ͥ͋͑ͯͤ͌̋ͨ̌͏͔̩̫̹͇̳̜ͅa̝̦̯̭͔̻̲̣̯̳̟͙̲̟̖͌̏ͬ̅͒͆͒́̊̊̀́́͝o̴̸̺͎͍͙̺̲̮͕͈ͫ́̉̽̃̏̏ͥ̄ͩ̔̓̊̀̇͛͝s͊̐̅ͨͨ͠͏̶̬̘̼̙̺̮͖̤̣̬͎̬̻̤͉̳͇͉͟.̙̩̟͉̹͙ͩͨͨͪ̓̒ͫͣ̎ͣ͌̈̆ͯͧ̅͂͊́̕ͅ ̵̦̪̳͙̩̌͌ͦ̊̑̄̄̆͑̇̉̀̋ͫ̌̊̅̃̚͘͢͜Z̴ͯ̔̒͑̏̓̃ͦͤ́͏̴̢͚̱͇̹͙̩̭̱̺a̶͔̠͕̯̗̫̖̪̰̟̜͔̣̮̖͗͌̾͛̒͑ͧ̊̆ͬͤ͋ͤ̽̏͗͞͞l̩̭̠̺͓̻̬̰̪̳̣̻̯̦̺̦͚̄̄ͥͯ͑̐̐̾̿̍̆̐͘͟͟g̰̮̫͔̬̠̗͙̥̜̼̪͕̺̈͂ͥ͊̔̈̅ͦ̂ͫ͂̚̚͜͠ͅǫ̛͉̗͉̝͉͚̫͓̹͕͉́͂͊ͪ̈́ͩ́͞.̴̲̻̜̫͕̓̍̍̾͑͑̀ͥ́̓̌͆ͩ̓ͪ͗ͯ̓̒̕ ̴͌̍͗͂ͧͧ͏̴̧̘͍͉̖͍̼̀
̳͚̳͚ͬͩͦ́ͨ͐̆̆̍̿̋ͪ̒ͤ͂̉͑͢͠H̩̘̻̭̺̼̘͕̻͎͇̮͔̬͎̫̼̙̤̿̇̓̃͐͆͌́̈́ͦͫ̒̏̂̾̂́́͞e͙̪͈͙̟͈̙͓̩̪͋ͧͩ͑̓͂͐̚͠͡ ̧̨̡̻̘͔̻͔͈̫̲͈̣͖͕̙̰̞ͫ̇̇ͨ͗́̓͝͝w̴̛̰͕̻̯̬̘̘̜̯̺̬̲̰͈͍͎̯̄̄͑̌ͤ̏̀̌̈́ͦͮ͜h̻̠̠͓͐̌ͦ̍͠ǫ̂̔͛͋͗͑ͪ̀́ͮ̋̓̄̀̾̚҉́҉̫̗̮̰̰̗̘̗̖͉͓͎̜ ̸̢ͪ̐̉́ͯ͂͗̂̂ͤ͞҉̪̪̠̝͇W̴̴̔̍̈́̿͗ͥ̋ͩͥ̒ͫ̇̈́ͪ́́͞͏̟̹̲̻̗̲̖͚̩̹̯å̛̇̌͋̀̈́̎͐̚҉̷̦̻̜̣̜̜̫̝̯̳̼͕̝̫̼͚̫̩̪͜͜i͐̌ͩ̏̓͛ͮ̑͒̏ͩͩ̄̾̈͏̼̞͈̟͉̞̮̬̼̘̝̖̟̺̼̰̺̻̕ͅt̒̊ͬͭ̓ͣ͗̈́̃̋̐ͣ̐̆͂͗҉̷̮̰͇̮̝̬̦̟̟͙̥̘̟̪̞̲s̷̗͙̗̯̤̘͖̰̥̫̤͈̠̟͚̥͌̍͐̏̎̇͘͜ ̸̦̰̩̖͕̫̠̖̱̱͍̮̐̒̈̈̊͆̆ͨ͆̒̉̊̑́̈ͩ͐͊̑͢͡B͖̗̘̪͙͓̗̹̩̘̅̇͑̂̈ͦ̒͊͜͠͝e̷͚̻̘͇̝̩͓̮͇̻͍̜̼͈̖̤̓̃̉͒̿ͩͯ̃̾͜͜͜͠h̨̛͚͖̤̜͔̘̭̹̭̩͛̆́̇̽ͨ̄̒̃̎̀i̢͉̪͙̼͕̰̳̹̲̘̟̠͔͚̬ͫ́ͣ̐̇̂́ͫ̌͗ͪ̉̂̿̋ͫ͒ͧ͡n̨̥̬̘͖͓ͯ̉͗ͤ̍͐́͢͞ď̈͋ͪ̄̔̅ͤ̿̔͊ͬ̔͏̞͈͍̮͔͓̺̱̝͕̲̪̯͔̬̟̱͞ ̴̂ͬ͊͛̍̆̍͌̃͆̾̈͝҉͚̲͇̝̜̬̹̹̹͢͡T͉̱̼̖̹̗̹̘̝̰̯̬̙̥͗̊ͨ̔ͦ́̀̒͂̈ͦ̌ͭ̄ͥ́̚̚͝͝h̊ͪ̓͊̃͛͌͗ͦ̓ͤ̊͠҉̸̫͇̖͙͉̲̼͜͜ě̵̸ͧͣ͋ͫ̈́̃̀̓̀͆̿̂͒̿̂҉̴̫̞̳̗͎̻̱̞̖͍̰ ̴̴̨̨̖͕̭͔͙̟̘͚͔̂́ͫ̍̐̓̆̎̊ͮͤͭͬͪͦ̿͒͝W͌̃̇̓̃҉̡͇̙̹̙͔͕͈̻̜̠̞̮͓̯ą̃̿́̃ͧͨͫͮ͛̄͒̂̊̑͡͏̬̘͕̹̩̠͉͔͙̟͕̕͡l̼̝͖͔̯ͭͯ͒͛ͧ̆͘͢͜l͐ͤ̆͂̇̈́ͥ͠҉̵̩̰̪̫̩̹͇́̕.̸̙̗̹͙̘̞̼͙̮̫̖̥͎͉̘͖̇ͪͧ͌͑ͮͮ̆ͩ̉ͮ̈́̊̉ͩ̿̅͒͡
̶̵̧͍̝̟̉̓ͪ̂̊ͮ̾ͪ͆͟ͅͅZ̵̡̙͓̙̟̼̞̍̂ͫ͋͒͂̀ͫ̃͂A͖̫̹͚̜̦͕͓ͩ̊̍̑̂ͫ͒̊̽́ͭͦ͛ͭ̚͢͞ͅL̷̶̨͇̟͈̩̮̞ͥ̾ͫͬ̀͡G̝̣̣̙̩̻̏ͥ̌ͮͦ̋̈́ͭͬ̍̑̊̄̽ͫ͋͛̚͢ͅO̊̈́̆̐ͧ̉̊̄ͫͪ҉̵͏҉͍̭̥̮̠̗̼̮͈!̦̳͉͎̲̘͎̲̘͖̱̣͌ͨͫͣ̐͐ͨͬͩͦ̈͗̊ͬͩ̌̅͊́̕͠

 

[Victorious]

Micawber, the Church presents us with the Truth. If by “the Church tells Catholics what to think” your mother means “the Church tells Catholics we cannot invent ‘truth’ for ourselves,” then she is absolutely right.

Who wants to live in a world where everyone is inventing the truth for themselves, anyway?

 

[Micawber]

Christ is the authority, so I guess you could say that the Church is “Authoritarian” since it is Christ’s Church. The Truth is the Truth no matter if we agree with it/accept it, or not. IT is what it is. Don’t let anyone mislead you into thinking that there is an “Anglo-side” of Catholicism. Catholicism doesn’t have parts, it’s not made up of different denominations. The Church is Catholic, whole and complete.

&

Micawber, the Church presents us with the Truth. If by “the Church tells Catholics what to think” your mother means “the Church tells Catholics we cannot invent ‘truth’ for ourselves,” then she is absolutely right.

Who wants to live in a world where everyone is inventing the truth for themselves, anyway?

Yes, I agree! Any suggestions for how I can approach this with her? Any book that addresses this very issue that I can send to her?

 

[Micawber]

after reading your post i couldnt help to T̛̜̟͙̳̺̝͕͉̘̯̘̯̓ͦ̌ͥ͌͌ͮ͊̅ͮͭ̾̽͛̒͜͡ͅȏ͋̏̽̈́̐͆ͩͯ̒ͨͮ̇̋͠҉̷̧̛̤̰̳̺̜̻͚ͅ ̸̴̡͎̭̟̗̞̭̫̖̲̥̞͓̬̺͉̖̥͉ͯͫ̌̀ī̍ͩ̒̇҉̵̡̧͎̻͇̝n̶̙͔͍͍̒̔ͤͣ̑͒ͧ̆̓́̓̑̊͌̓̉ͦ̀́́͘v̶͍͚̗͚̫̬̺̥̟̣̖̟̪̹͇͈̦̠̳̉ͮ̎̈́ͭͪ̾̿͒ͮ̔̓́͠ǫ͆ͯͨ̂͊͑͆ͪͪ͘͝҉̞̬̻̲̖̮͙k̶̷̲͉͕̩̦̠̺̦͙̞̜̘̰̜̇ͨ̓́ͤͧ̿̌͗̓̏̀̌ͭ͑ͫ͜͟e̵̠̪̩̻̩̞̘̖̳ͨ̓ͭͬ͌ͮͤ̂ͧ͐̅̿̊͗̃͛̂̚͡ ̴̴̖̰͙͇̱͚̭́̃̆̈̊̿̔͒̆̚̚̚͟t̴̹̰̘̥̳̹̘̳̮͍͚̰̜̻̻͈ͫ̈́̈́ͫͭ͐͐͘͡͡h̨̰͙̲̙͓̜̲͍̱̥̱͕͇̩̖̜ͨ͂̈́̑̇̅̀͟͡ͅe̴͙̺̭̥̤̍͛ͯ̓͊͂͑ͯ͐̏ͤ̈̿ͣ̿́̕͜ ̵̜̲͖̭̬̣͙͚̠̳̪͖͇̞̄̆ͣͫ̏͑ͣ̃̈́͘̕͝ḩ̸͊͌͐ͪ̓̔͊͂̽̏̌͐̈̓͘͘҉̫̗̱͚̞͉͙̟͕̬̟ͅi̷̵̧͓̗̟̲͓͇̞̯̜̤͔͖̻͓͚ͫ̿ͣͯͨͯͥͭͮ̃̿ͥ͑͋̍̎́͘ͅͅv̵̸̲̹͎̱̩̯̬͉̰̩̲̮͓̮͂ͧ̃̌ͦͥ̉̔͛̆̂ͯ̿ͮͣ̈́̚͝ȅ̷̢̨͕͉͇̪̗̤ͭ́̐̆͒ͪ̏̽͒̇̃̈́͌̈́ͬ̀̚ͅͅ-̢̠̯͓̞͙ͥ̇͗ͯ̌̈́̐ͬ͊̒̇̃̔̊̋͝m̴̭̰̣̱̄̈̂͋̾͋ͬ̂̀͛͜͢͡i̴̧̧̛͈̰͕͇͙̖̣͕̝͙̱̬̋̇̿ͧͭ̑́̔ͫ̕n̗͈̗̥̼͖̥ͣ͑ͪ̿̚͘͜͢͝d̻͙͚̙͕̥͈̯̝̫͎̣̬͔̭̏̄ͪ̆͒͑̓̊ͤ͒̋͑͢͝͞͠ͅ ̆̆͆̏ͥͮ͗̄͌ͤͪ̅ͤ͋͗҉̗̬̙̫̳̞̦̥̳̝͕͕̯̤̭̬̩̥͍͢͢͝r̢̛̞̤̹̩̞͔̺ͮ̃̒ͨ̀ͥ͒̀͟͢e͑͒̎̄̄ͮ̀҉̛͙̦̣͇̩͘p̮͓̯̖͈̜͉̖̹̰͇̫̫̩͍̘̠͓͌ͩ̾̃ͫ͐̌͋̈͛̓̒ͫͩͪ̈ͣ͌̚̕͞ͅŕ̬̜̣̘̫̲̜̱̥͓̲̞̲̃̋̔̇͘͠è͐́̎ͯ̋͒͐ͮͦͮ̈͋ͪ̍̾̎ͪ̉҉̨̧͓͖̟͚̙̝̱̹̫̟̻͔ş̋̅ͤ͆͑͑̒ͦͥ̈́̎͂́̚͏͍̜̝̞͙̻̙̙̘̪̼̘͕͈͙̺̙͉e̍̓̀ͣͧ̋͆̆͟͡͡͏̱͓̩̦̺̬̝̖̳̠͕͓̱ṅ̸͈̪͓̩̱̯̩̙̫̥̹̱̗̦̽̍͢t̝̳͚̰̱̘̞̭͉͎͚̙͈̟̀ͥ̈́̽ͭ̓̄͌͆͑͝͞ï̵̗̱͇̹͑ͯ̾̇͑ͦ̚͟n̴͚͉̭͉̫̙̦͕̭̮͕̎ͭ̂̈́͑͆̔̓ͬͪ͛͂͞g̶̴̡̬̝̲͍̪̙̔̀̋͊̏͛ ̶̴̨̮̺͕̈́͋͌c̝͙̦̥͕̘̬̭̪̯̙͉̏ͨ͛̈̐̌̑̀͡h̴̵̨̠̳̭͚͐ͥ̈̄͛̽ͪ͒ͯ̑̽a̧̘͈͚̙͕̰̰̦͆̑ͨͯ̇̾̐́ō͙̳̲͓͔͚ͥ̿͂̀̕͝͠͝ş̿ͧ͋̒̋͋̑̕͢͏̢̼̟̰͍̝̤͎̣̱̣̼̲.̸̨͖̮͍̜͇̹̳͔̘͚̥̰͑ͥ̄̊̿̓̆ͭ͂̚̕
̡̡͚̟͉͕̩̪͕̀̔̆̓ͨ͛̇ͦ̍̀̍̀̑͊̽̌ͤ̈ͯ͢͞ͅI̷̛͈̟̟̩͈͎̖̯̯̠͊͗ͪ̄ͧ̈͂ͩ̋̍ͪ̀͛́͡ń̎ͭ̒̒͑͜͏̡̞͚̯̤̬̠ͅv̢̡̯̤͈͉ͧ̎̇ͭ͆ͫ̉͛ͣ̑͠͠o̠͍̝̫̯͕̹͕̠̟̹̮̙͗ͬͬͫ͂̓ͩ͘͟͢͞͝ͅͅk̷̡̬̮̻͔̫̞̩͙̞̺ͥ͆ͩ̈iͩ̑ͮ́̈́̆̈̀ͥͧͩ̐̽͆͐̔͠҉͚̫͚̖̜̖͕̘̯͉̘͟ͅn̩̞̹͕̘͇̰̤̬͇͕̮͊̄̄̐ͨͧ̔͆ͯ̾̈ͯ̚͘g̷̡̛̩̘̭ͫͫͣ̿ͫ̆͌͛ ̸̡̠̲̺̩͔̣͍̱̺̗̜̲̼̮͕̱͔͕̾͒ͨ̓͑̆̏͆ͭ̌̃͢͞͞ͅt̼̫̼̺͚̦͍̣̱̝̺̥̤̺̂̓͗͑͠ḧ̸̢͙̙̼̯̙̻̘̮̫͕͕͔̗́̉͛̑ͥ̑̈́̚̚e̼̩̝̣͍̗̱̻̖̮̺̯͖̙͚ͤ̾͐̋̋͠ͅ ̞̫̼͚̼͎̹͔̘̮̪̫͚ͤ̅ͦ̎̍̅̿͜͝f̾̆ͯ̏͛̆̋̊̆̋ͮ͂̔ͬ͂ͦ̔̋̓͟͏̹̣͙͕͇̫̝͙̞͟͡e̷̵̸̛̙̪̜̩̗̞̪ͦ̓̍̍ͧͫ̃ͥ̅̐͒̎ͧ̏͆͋͐̾̚e̡̨̧͚̲͖̦̺̳͚̲͓͖̖̞͎̲̫̯͙̮͓̊̈̒͋͢͟l̸ͫ̑ͤ̉̋̓ͨͥͤͪ̔ͮ̇͌ͨͯ͡҉̛̦̫͓̼̙̹̤̫̖̠͔̠̦̲̗͝ͅi̶̡͇̮̹̝͙̣̠̺͇͖̯͙̬̰͍̻̙ͧ̋̽̈́́̚n̵̏̃ͮ̾̊̾̽̎ͫ̔ͤ͟҉͖̳̠̬̻͔̯̞g̸̡͕͈̟͉͔̺͙͓̖͈̤̥͇̳̙̮͇̰̓ͪͣ͑̍̅͗̊͘ ̷̵͈̝͖̣̟̘̦̪̰͙̎̇̓͑͑ͣ͆͆͋͢ͅo̷͉͔̠̗̝̞̘̒̔ͪ̽̃̓̓̑ͯ́̈́ͮ͑̈́ͫ̚̚̚̚͘͢͟͡f̫͉̝̗̝̎̃͋ͥͯͫ̌ͮ̈́̎̽ͩͮ͒̽͂͑̌͋́͘͜͢͞ͅ ̸̡̨̨̑͆ͬͪͦͮ̓͐̌̒̂̌͊҉̭͚͉͉c̦͍̖̼͓̩͕̥͙̻̮̲͕͖̫͎̙̤͈̍ͫ̑ͮ̊̎͋ͥ̚͜͡ḩ̢̯̰͇̮̘̲̖̺̣̮̣̟̼ͨͣͦ̌̑ͮ́͠a̢̜͕̰̺̪͙̠͙͈̟ͣͣ͛͌̈̐̎̆ͩo̡̧̝͉͉̦̱̙̻̹ͯ͆ͨ͗̃̋̐̕͟͞s̶̜͖̬̮̮̞̣̜͓̪͕͖̭̟̣̄̎ͤ̅ͦ̃̑͐ͥ͗ͥ̈̒ͣ̀͞.̡̫͙̦̦̣̼̠͎̱͔̰̙̺̮͉ͭͧ͌̆̿͌ͮͧ̑ͨ̒ͨ̕͟͡
̶̢̟̹͕̰̺̳̦̤̞͉̬̣̺̎̀͂͒ͩͮ̽ͫ̐̾ͧ͋ͩ͡W̢ͩ̽̇ͬ҉͕̭̙̣̭̰̜̪͕ị̡͉̖̻̳͐̔ͤͧ́̎̋ͫ̏͌͛̌ͤ́̕͠t̂̿ͪ͊ͤ̽ͥ̅ͮͮ̂ͣ͏͡҉̛̫̩̼̺̞͔͟ḩ̸̛̓̌̋ͬ̊͆̏̇҉͈͉̯̝͚̦̤̜̬̣̙͠ͅ ̶̹̳̹̹̩̙̘ͨͬ͆̔̈͂ͬͩͩ̔́ͪ͊̌͟͞õ̅ͩ̒͒̏ͩͨ̍ͯ̅ͬͯ̐̚͏͏̨̱̯̙̲̰̩̗͕̬̙̪͕̯͖͇̤͚͡u͑̓͑̽̐͑ͬ̌ͭ͂̈́̾́͏̝̤̱̣̫̞͖͓̹̼͉̘̜̫̳́ͅt͕͇̖̜̬̥̫͗ͯ̉͆̋̄ͦ͗̅ͩ̉ͯ̾͢͠ ̽ͭ̑̔ͫ̈ͫ̋̌͏̨͕̩̜̰͚̤̖̰͈̲͉͘͘͡ǫ̞͚̫̮̭͙͎͖̪̲̅̔͑ͦ̃͞ͅr̀ͤ̽͋͠҉̵̺̘̫̣͉̹͙̝̞̯̥̯d̛͈̞̯͇̖͙̻͓̘̱̋̓ͩ͂̔̂ͪ̈́͛͊ͯͨ̄̚͠ë̢̧̢͎̤͙̯͉̮̹̞͕̖͍́̊ͪ͌ͩ̅͒͋̑̏̀͢ȑͪ̈́ͧ̓͒ͯ̃̓̈̒͏̷́͏̣̭͓̦̮̼.̵̥̳̗̝̙̪̠͔͍͓̩͙͙̻̖̞͋̎̒̄̈́̓̿̇̕͢ͅ
̡̫̱̻͍̮͎ͨ͐͂̀ͤͧͤ͑ͯ̔̿͊̎͘Ṱ̨̻̩͈̱̺̮̦̮̬̻̪̠̎̽ͫ̀ͧͭͯ͗ͥ̃̉ͤ͡ͅẖ̛̫̟̳͖̰͓̣̖̫̦͓͒͌̍ͣ̈́̽ͩͧ͛̂͘͘͢ė̴͙̤̝̝̟̫̟̲̄̒̆̊ͩ̆̍ͤ̓̐͐ͮ͛̎̅ͨ͝ͅ ̨́̉̉̍҉̶̛͕̳̣͓̳̗̯̫͕̼̱̮͚͈̣̲̣̕ͅṆ̵̞̰̻͍̖̥̘̙̣̼̪̥̤̗̦̹̱́̄͐ͪͮ̑́̚͠ḝ̨̜̺̮̼̦̭̳̐͆̑ͤ̒̏͛̇̇̿̓ͣ̿̈́̉ͣͅͅz̷̶̹̱̹̈́̽͌̋͌ͤͫͭ̓̇̂́ͪ̅͆ͦ̏͜͝ͅp̅̎ͩͬͥ̈́͟͜͞͏̹͉̗͇͓̮͔̥͈ę̷͊̈ͫ̄ͫ̃͗ͦ͊͊̀͋̽̋̌̚͡͏̝̦̙̜̤̻̥̥͔͍͜r̂ͦ̍̇̓̊̒̐͌ͪͦ̾͏̵̧͍̝͙͇̺̖̼̘͘d̶͓̬̘̮̦̫̣̩̲̆͋́ͮͫ͐̓ͨ̔̂ͦͯ̾͜͜i̡̠̲̭̮̭͓̩̱̤̠͉̪͊̇̂̉̿ͣ̍̍́ͅå̐͌̿̔͛͐͗ͫ͐͐̆ͫͨ̚͡͏̨̺̹̻̘̖̠̹͇͙̕͠ṉ̵̪̦̥̓͗̔ͭ͒͒̕͟ ̷̡̛͎͎͉̲̬̥̞̣͍͈̰͖͕̟̯͈̖̭̓̑ͨ̃̔͗ͥ̈̕h̵̛̛̜̺͕̥̟̱̟̹͇̼͎̣̠̠͖͓̘ͮ̏̄̔ͩ̃̌͒̽̃̔̽̂ͥͫͯ͌ͮ͟͡í̵̢̨̘͎͚͚̫͎̬̱͕̣̀ͪ̽͆̆̔́ͫ̉̆ͪ̔ͭ͑̽̓̾́̚͟v̴̸̡̩̮̹̻͕̫̗̭͊̃̄̈́̓́͟e̷͔͙̰͕͙̫̲̮̭̣͐ͥ̓̈͋͗ͩ͗̑͌̓ͣ̒ͣ̃̀̕͟-̫̪̗̣̭̙̪̬̬͓̮̪̝͉̱̲̭̜̓͌ͣ̐͊ͩ͗̾͛͗ͪ̍́̚̕͢m̷̡̫͕͈͍̬̞̰͈̝̳͉̳̬̬̼̊ͦͫ̔̆̈́ͨ͂͆̔ͣ͛̈̓̈́͟͞i̵̶͉̫̼͓͚̯̱̥͔̻̻̞̮͇̥͕̮̣͂̿ͭ̏́͘͡ͅn̳̩̝̞̝͙̹͛̈ͧ̆̄̉ͪ̒̓̑ͥ̋̌̀̑͛̒̑͒͞d̴͉̞̹̙̯̩̪̻͚̹̝̯̝͓͚̹̮ͨ̾ͦ̃̐ͨ͜͞ ̸̴̴̡̤̳̙̥̯̖͊ͪ̏͒̌̽̎͋o̒̒ͨ͒̇̚͏̷̡̹̱̠͙̳̘̜̟͍̻͜f̶̓͑͂̽ͭ̄̽̇́̿͂̒ͧ҉̶̵͔͙͙͎̣͇͍̮̮͍̺͡ ̟̫͎̟̙̳̘͈͙̰̙̞͕̱̼̙͎͎̓͗̉̾̓̋̾̿ͭ́͜c̎ͤ͊̚͏̴̷̝̻̖͎̮͚̗̖̩͓̟̭̟͕ḧ́ͨ͋ͥ͋͑ͯͤ͌̋ͨ̌͏͔̩̫̹͇̳̜ͅa̝̦̯̭͔̻̲̣̯̳̟͙̲̟̖͌̏ͬ̅͒͆͒́̊̊̀́́͝o̴̸̺͎͍͙̺̲̮͕͈ͫ́̉̽̃̏̏ͥ̄ͩ̔̓̊̀̇͛͝s͊̐̅ͨͨ͠͏̶̬̘̼̙̺̮͖̤̣̬͎̬̻̤͉̳͇͉͟.̙̩̟͉̹͙ͩͨͨͪ̓̒ͫͣ̎ͣ͌̈̆ͯͧ̅͂͊́̕ͅ ̵̦̪̳͙̩̌͌ͦ̊̑̄̄̆͑̇̉̀̋ͫ̌̊̅̃̚͘͢͜Z̴ͯ̔̒͑̏̓̃ͦͤ́͏̴̢͚̱͇̹͙̩̭̱̺a̶͔̠͕̯̗̫̖̪̰̟̜͔̣̮̖͗͌̾͛̒͑ͧ̊̆ͬͤ͋ͤ̽̏͗͞͞l̩̭̠̺͓̻̬̰̪̳̣̻̯̦̺̦͚̄̄ͥͯ͑̐̐̾̿̍̆̐͘͟͟g̰̮̫͔̬̠̗͙̥̜̼̪͕̺̈͂ͥ͊̔̈̅ͦ̂ͫ͂̚̚͜͠ͅǫ̛͉̗͉̝͉͚̫͓̹͕͉́͂͊ͪ̈́ͩ́͞.̴̲̻̜̫͕̓̍̍̾͑͑̀ͥ́̓̌͆ͩ̓ͪ͗ͯ̓̒̕ ̴͌̍͗͂ͧͧ͏̴̧̘͍͉̖͍̼̀
̳͚̳͚ͬͩͦ́ͨ͐̆̆̍̿̋ͪ̒ͤ͂̉͑͢͠H̩̘̻̭̺̼̘͕̻͎͇̮͔̬͎̫̼̙̤̿̇̓̃͐͆͌́̈́ͦͫ̒̏̂̾̂́́͞e͙̪͈͙̟͈̙͓̩̪͋ͧͩ͑̓͂͐̚͠͡ ̧̨̡̻̘͔̻͔͈̫̲͈̣͖͕̙̰̞ͫ̇̇ͨ͗́̓͝͝w̴̛̰͕̻̯̬̘̘̜̯̺̬̲̰͈͍͎̯̄̄͑̌ͤ̏̀̌̈́ͦͮ͜h̻̠̠͓͐̌ͦ̍͠ǫ̂̔͛͋͗͑ͪ̀́ͮ̋̓̄̀̾̚҉́҉̫̗̮̰̰̗̘̗̖͉͓͎̜ ̸̢ͪ̐̉́ͯ͂͗̂̂ͤ͞҉̪̪̠̝͇W̴̴̔̍̈́̿͗ͥ̋ͩͥ̒ͫ̇̈́ͪ́́͞͏̟̹̲̻̗̲̖͚̩̹̯å̛̇̌͋̀̈́̎͐̚҉̷̦̻̜̣̜̜̫̝̯̳̼͕̝̫̼͚̫̩̪͜͜i͐̌ͩ̏̓͛ͮ̑͒̏ͩͩ̄̾̈͏̼̞͈̟͉̞̮̬̼̘̝̖̟̺̼̰̺̻̕ͅt̒̊ͬͭ̓ͣ͗̈́̃̋̐ͣ̐̆͂͗҉̷̮̰͇̮̝̬̦̟̟͙̥̘̟̪̞̲s̷̗͙̗̯̤̘͖̰̥̫̤͈̠̟͚̥͌̍͐̏̎̇͘͜ ̸̦̰̩̖͕̫̠̖̱̱͍̮̐̒̈̈̊͆̆ͨ͆̒̉̊̑́̈ͩ͐͊̑͢͡B͖̗̘̪͙͓̗̹̩̘̅̇͑̂̈ͦ̒͊͜͠͝e̷͚̻̘͇̝̩͓̮͇̻͍̜̼͈̖̤̓̃̉͒̿ͩͯ̃̾͜͜͜͠h̨̛͚͖̤̜͔̘̭̹̭̩͛̆́̇̽ͨ̄̒̃̎̀i̢͉̪͙̼͕̰̳̹̲̘̟̠͔͚̬ͫ́ͣ̐̇̂́ͫ̌͗ͪ̉̂̿̋ͫ͒ͧ͡n̨̥̬̘͖͓ͯ̉͗ͤ̍͐́͢͞ď̈͋ͪ̄̔̅ͤ̿̔͊ͬ̔͏̞͈͍̮͔͓̺̱̝͕̲̪̯͔̬̟̱͞ ̴̂ͬ͊͛̍̆̍͌̃͆̾̈͝҉͚̲͇̝̜̬̹̹̹͢͡T͉̱̼̖̹̗̹̘̝̰̯̬̙̥͗̊ͨ̔ͦ́̀̒͂̈ͦ̌ͭ̄ͥ́̚̚͝͝h̊ͪ̓͊̃͛͌͗ͦ̓ͤ̊͠҉̸̫͇̖͙͉̲̼͜͜ě̵̸ͧͣ͋ͫ̈́̃̀̓̀͆̿̂͒̿̂҉̴̫̞̳̗͎̻̱̞̖͍̰ ̴̴̨̨̖͕̭͔͙̟̘͚͔̂́ͫ̍̐̓̆̎̊ͮͤͭͬͪͦ̿͒͝W͌̃̇̓̃҉̡͇̙̹̙͔͕͈̻̜̠̞̮͓̯ą̃̿́̃ͧͨͫͮ͛̄͒̂̊̑͡͏̬̘͕̹̩̠͉͔͙̟͕̕͡l̼̝͖͔̯ͭͯ͒͛ͧ̆͘͢͜l͐ͤ̆͂̇̈́ͥ͠҉̵̩̰̪̫̩̹͇́̕.̸̙̗̹͙̘̞̼͙̮̫̖̥͎͉̘͖̇ͪͧ͌͑ͮͮ̆ͩ̉ͮ̈́̊̉ͩ̿̅͒͡
̶̵̧͍̝̟̉̓ͪ̂̊ͮ̾ͪ͆͟ͅͅZ̵̡̙͓̙̟̼̞̍̂ͫ͋͒͂̀ͫ̃͂A͖̫̹͚̜̦͕͓ͩ̊̍̑̂ͫ͒̊̽́ͭͦ͛ͭ̚͢͞ͅL̷̶̨͇̟͈̩̮̞ͥ̾ͫͬ̀͡G̝̣̣̙̩̻̏ͥ̌ͮͦ̋̈́ͭͬ̍̑̊̄̽ͫ͋͛̚͢ͅO̊̈́̆̐ͧ̉̊̄ͫͪ҉̵͏҉͍̭̥̮̠̗̼̮͈!̦̳͉͎̲̘͎̲̘͖̱̣͌ͨͫͣ̐͐ͨͬͩͦ̈͗̊ͬͩ̌̅͊́̕͠

LOL! Any help here? What is it you’re trying to say!

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

LOL! Any help here? What is it you’re trying to say!

It’s a troll- ignore it. The person is trying to stir up trouble and do as much damage as possible before being banned.

On the topic of your actual question, I’d say that the Church hierarchy doesn’t operate based on whims: everything it teaches has reasons behind it, and the reasoning is made clear through various Church documents. Sure, they tell you what to think- but they explain why, and ultimately leave it up to you whether you’re going to accept it or not.

 

[Micawber]

It’s a troll- ignore it. The person is trying to stir up trouble and do as much damage as possible before being banned.

On the topic of your actual question, I’d say that the Church hierarchy doesn’t operate based on whims: everything it teaches has reasons behind it, and the reasoning is made clear through various Church documents. Sure, they tell you what to think- but they explain why, and ultimately leave it up to you whether you’re going to accept it or not.

Yes, I agree! Any suggestions for how I can approach this (very thorny to her) issue with her? Any book that addresses this very issue that I can send to her? Thanks!

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Yes, I agree! Any suggestions for how I can approach this (very thorny to her) issue with her? Any book that addresses this very issue that I can send to her? Thanks!

Unfortunately, I really can’t recommend any specific books here, since I don’t think I’ve ever even read a book on the subject. I might suggest the Catechism, though. It sets out in detail the beliefs of the Catholic Church, complete with Scriptural citations

I might ask, though, why Jesus bothered giving his dsciples any authority whatsoever if He didn’t intend for them to use it. For the successors of the Apostles not to pass on Jesus’ teachings would be to fail in their mission to “Go therefore and teach all nations.” If a “modern” church wants to sever itself from the teachings of the Apostles who received their teachings from Christ Himself, I don’t know how they can call themselves “Christian”

Sorry if that’s not much help- I’ve never really had to discuss this issue myself.

 

[sixofseven]

A good book - the Bible!!

I don’t really know of any other good books either but there are a few papers here on CA about the Papacy, Peter’s Succession, and the role of priests. Type in ‘authority’ in the search field.

I know that’s not exactly what you’re after but it’s a good place to start because what you (or your Mother for that matter) can discover is that all throughout the scriptures and in the early church was the understanding of the teaching authority of the church, and that was how Jesus set up His Church to be, it is Christ himself ‘telling’ us to listen to that authority, “Whoever hears you hears me, whoever rejects you rejects me and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me”.

I get the same argument all the time from a friend who consistently asks me when I put a Catholic argument/answer to them along the lines of ‘the church teaches…’, they ask ‘yes, but what do YOU think, what do YOU believe’, they can’t understand that it’s not what ‘I’ believe, it’s what Christ said and I have chosen to accept that teaching and live by it! Not only do I also believe what the Church teaches, I have complete faith in it! That’s the beauty of the Body of Christ - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Thank goodness ‘they’ ‘tell me what to think’ - how else would I know for sure if I’m believing the right thing, doing the right thing, refraining from the wrong thing!!??

I pray pray pray that the Holy Spirit will give His all and inspire my friend to listen, see and hear what I am saying. I’ve really been amazing at the little things that happen after a prayerful moment and I know that God is listening to me. I just have trouble remembering to be patient!

I truly wish you all the best for your own journey, I hope it leads you ‘home’!

 

[Answersplease]

I have been wrestling with my own decision with whether to convert to Catholicism for many years now. Coming from the anglo side, I’ve been discovering in my reading that there are a great many myths and fears about Catholicism, most of which are seriously skewed bits of misinformation. A veritable PR nightmare!

Over the 4th, I was discussing this decision with my Mother, who was imploring me to stay “Anglo-side” of Catholicism.

One of her constant refrains was that “they” (Church hierarchy, etc.) tell you what to think.

I was trying to say that it’s precisely the lack of the Mysterium that’s getting “our” church into trouble. That it’s not about them “telling” parishioners what to think, but about guiding souls away from the world that, in fact, DOES tell you what to think - and that what it tells you leads you away from the Truth, and is harmful. What is wrong with “teaching” the truth? Et cetera…

However, all this ^^ to her still sounds “authoritarian.”

How can I explain this better? Is there a good book I can send her (after reading it myself!!! )

Thanks all!

Cheers & happy 4th! ~cawbs

It is not my wish to drive a (potentially serious) wedge between you and your wife so use the following advice at your own risk. And it is not neccessarily the Catholic position.

Take a stance that the authority comes from Jesus The Christ and was given to Peter whom the Catholic Church is built on.
She does’nt have to accept this right away and you don’t have to win the argument right away, you just have to take the position and stick with it in a loving manner.

John 12:49
“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.”
Luke 10:16
“The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”

Then you should join the Catholic Church, for your knowledge of the Truth will be weighed either for or against you. If your wife vehemently objects, at least take the RCIA classes since I think you are not required to join at the end, tell her it is a compromise.

Luke 12:47
“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,”
Luke 12:48
“but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.”

A good way to witness to your wife is to show that having received the “fullness of the Truth” you have become a better servant to Jesus The Christ.

1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
Matthew 25:21
"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’ "

 

[Micawber]

It is not my wish to drive a (potentially serious) wedge between you and your wife so use the following advice at your own risk. And it is not neccessarily the Catholic position.

Take a stance that the authority comes from Jesus The Christ and was given to Peter whom the Catholic Church is built on.
She does’nt have to accept this right away and you don’t have to win the argument right away, you just have to take the position and stick with it in a loving manner.

John 12:49
“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.”
Luke 10:16
“The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”

Then you should join the Catholic Church, for your knowledge of the Truth will be weighed either for or against you. If your wife vehemently objects, at least take the RCIA classes since I think you are not required to join at the end, tell her it is a compromise.

Luke 12:47
“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,”
Luke 12:48
“but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.”

A good way to witness to your wife is to show that having received the “fullness of the Truth” you have become a better servant to Jesus The Christ.

1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
Matthew 25:21
"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’ "

What a wonderfully kind post. Thank you!

I think the core of the problem for her (my mother) is that in her mind it’s the politically- charged issues that truly bother her.

She says things like: “well, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, or homosexual marriage, but we are specifically commanded by him to love, so the Church is arrogant and authoritarian in trying to tell us what to think about these things. Those teachings are man-made things that are rooted in backward societies - not in the teachings of Christ.” Etc.

In her mind, I guess, if Christ didn’t say it, it was merely & arbitrarily “made up” by the Church. Do you see what I mean?

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

What a wonderfully kind post. Thank you!

I think the core of the problem for her (my mother) is that in her mind it’s the politically- charged issues that truly bother her.

She says things like: “well, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, or homosexual marriage, but we are specifically commanded by him to love, so the Church is arrogant and authoritarian in trying to tell us what to think about these things. Those teachings are man-made things that are rooted in backward societies - not in the teachings of Christ.” Etc.

In her mind, I guess, if Christ didn’t say it, it was merely & arbitrarily “made up” by the Church. Do you see what I mean?

The Gospel writers had very specific purposes in mind as they wrote; the Epistles, also, were written to address specific issues in the Church. It would be no suprise if at no point homosexuality and homosexual marriage were condemned (even though they are). Also, it is important to check into the Jewish view of homosexuality- they saw it as an abomination, potentially punishable by death. If the early Church had attempted to change their followers’ views on homosexuality, they would have met iwth an even bigger uproar than when they decided a Christian did not have to be circumcised.

If Jesus really did utter even one word in approval of homosexuality, then it seems to me that he would have been denounced in the Jewish community as such, and no record of such denunciation exists.

Although we are told to love, we are not to tolerate the sins of others. Jesus does not tell the woman caught in adultery “Go back to your sin” but “Go and sin no more.” Any person can be accepted into the Christian community, but in becoming Christian, they make a commitment to avoid sin.

 

[Victorious]

The Gospel writers had very specific purposes in mind as they wrote; the Epistles, also, were written to address specific issues in the Church. It would be no suprise if at no point homosexuality and homosexual marriage were condemned (even though they are). Also, it is important to check into the Jewish view of homosexuality- they saw it as an abomination, potentially punishable by death. If the early Church had attempted to change their followers’ views on homosexuality, they would have met iwth an even bigger uproar than when they decided a Christian did not have to be circumcised.

St. Paul flatly says that those who practice homosexual acts shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven. And Jesus told His Apostles that whoever hears them, hears Him.