For an old timer not up on the latest, what does TPTB stand for? For what it’s worth, the use of you and your in prayer is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
The Powers That Be, whoever that is.
I strongly prefer the older versions as well, but it is worth remembering two things. First, at the time the old versions were written, they were in “contemporary” language. They were not supposed to sound antique. Second, and more importantly, because the thee/thou forms have completely fallen out of use, they mainly serve to signal “old-fashionedness,” and so most people have a sense of them as imparting a great formality, like the language you would use to address King Arthur: “O sire, I am but thy humble liege!” In reality, however, you and your were the formal terms of address, while thee, thou, and thy were the intimate forms of address for use with family members or close friends, never with superiors (this is why the Quakers, the “Society of Friends” who do not recognize social distinctions, have continued to use these forms).Why? I know it shouldn’t bother me, but it does. I’ve said “Blessed art thou” and “Blessed is the fruit of thy womb” since forever. I cringe when I hear them subsitute “blessed are you” and “blessed is the fruit of your womb”. They even changed it in the hymn “o come Emmanuel”…to “rejoice, rejoice, Emmanuel shall come to YOU, O Israel…” Why?
Consider this: “thou/thy/thee/thine” is the singular-informal.Why? I know it shouldn’t bother me, but it does. I’ve said “Blessed art thou” and “Blessed is the fruit of thy womb” since forever. I cringe when I hear them subsitute “blessed are you” and “blessed is the fruit of your womb”. They even changed it in the hymn “o come Emmanuel”…to “rejoice, rejoice, Emmanuel shall come to YOU, O Israel…” Why?
The Powers That Be, whoever that is.
It seems someone has to determine what’s archaic and what’s not, no?
The Powers That Be, whoever that is.
My first guess naturally would be the meddling ICEL
Any wonder why Catholics are confused by so many Catholic Bible versions
along with various scripture versions used in Lectionaries.
To me its what you grow-up with and are comfortable with.
Always have and always will love my Douay Rheims.
Why are you changing the Hail Mary or have I read it wrong?Why? I know it shouldn’t bother me, but it does. I’ve said “Blessed art thou” and “Blessed is the fruit of thy womb” since forever. I cringe when I hear them subsitute “blessed are you” and “blessed is the fruit of your womb”. They even changed it in the hymn “o come Emmanuel”…to “rejoice, rejoice, Emmanuel shall come to YOU, O Israel…” Why?
I don’t have much problem with such Old English grammar terms.I don’t think you can blame the ICEL for dropping terms like “brake,” “begat,” “spake,” “abode,” “drive,” “bought,” “breast,” “shop” etc.
But you think this is bad. The differences between Old English and Middle English were much more pronounced. And they didn’t happen overnight either.
What we need is an official language which doesn’t change.
centurionguard;8708803:
You mean like … (gasp) Latin???I don’t think you can blame the ICEL for dropping terms like “brake,” “begat,” “spake,” “abode,” “drave,” “boughten,” “brast,” “shope” etc.
But you think this is bad. The differences between Old English and Middle English were much more pronounced. And they didn’t happen overnight either.
What we need is an official language which doesn’t change.
I don’t know who started it; but this is what I’ve heard the last few times in my parish. Is the “Our Father” next?Why are you changing the Hail Mary or have I read it wrong?
We haven’t had to change ours.
ProVobis;8708833:
Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum…You mean like … (gasp) Latin???
No complaints here.
At any rate, my humble opinion at this point is that if “comfort” was a virtue or a fruit of the Spirit, then I suppose The Lord Jesus would have commended his disciples for grabbing a nap in the Garden of His Agony. In the Gospels, Our Lord said that His words were “spirit and life”… and I reckon that holds true for the Polish, Portugese, Ukranian languages etc., every bit as much as for those whose native tongue happens to be english: thumbsup: No doubt, we are certainly free to prefer and use Old English in our devotional lives, but I’d wager that the blind man with his braile Bible and Missal finds a discussion like ours just a little peculiar
Happy to report that in the parish where I attended Mass last night we sang “Rejoice, rejoice, O Israel, to thee shall come Emmanuel.”They even changed it in the hymn “o come Emmanuel”…to “rejoice, rejoice, Emmanuel shall come to YOU, O Israel…” Why?
I miss the second person singular too, but then I’m an old curmudgeon. Heck, I’m even tempted to respond “Domine non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea,” at communion time.Why? I know it shouldn’t bother me, but it does. I’ve said “Blessed art thou” and “Blessed is the fruit of thy womb” since forever. I cringe when I hear them subsitute “blessed are you” and “blessed is the fruit of your womb”. They even changed it in the hymn “o come Emmanuel”…to “rejoice, rejoice, Emmanuel shall come to YOU, O Israel…” Why?