Things Catholics base on Tradition and not scripture.

  • Thread starter Thread starter googie
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Stephentlig said:
We do not just listen to the Bible. We listen to the Church. For it is from the church that we receive the Bible and Sacred Tradition. Both references as proof for what I just stated can be found in the Bible. St.Paul tells us to keep to the traditions that they have passed down to us either by letter or word of mouth.

He also calls the church the pillar and bulwark of the truth. If Paul believed in scripture alone theology why did he not say the Bible was the pillar and bulwark of the truth? this is because God gave us a church in which we receive both our Bible and Tradition from.

It does not have to be in the Bible therefore.

Pax
Stephen
Click to expand...
Let me ask you the same question I asked someone else. Who or what is the church. Blessings.
 
ddarko said:
You are right… sorry about that.

I was sort of going for a bit humour by making him realize the irony that he was doing something unbiblical by trying to say that he believes in the Bible alone 🙂 But I see how it can be taken in an offensive manner.

Thanks for pointing that out.

God Bless 🙂
Click to expand...
:)👍
 
googie said:
That Kingdom already exists and has existed since before the foundation of the world. Hence it cannot be some future millennial earthly kingdom.
Click to expand...
I could answer the “such as” question if there were enough hours in the day, however I can mention a few things: Praying to the saints, the assumption of Mary, Purgatory, confessing sins to a priest, Christ in the tabernacle in the church, the pope, sacrifice of the mass, succession of the apostles, hierarchy in the RCC, the RCC necessary for salvation. There are so many things based on tradition, they are too many to count which I don’t have time to write. The next statement, " and you know that because you heard it through…word of mouth" is not the way I received it. I received it from the written word of God. Blessings.

You left out one big thing that Catholics base on Tradition. That is Scripture itself. You see contrary to the two protestant ideas that 1. the scriptures have always been with us or 2. the scriptures dropped out of heaven in the 17th century leather bound, gilt edged, in the King’s English and the words of Jesus printed in red ink the simple fact is the scriptures are a product of the Catholic Church in the fourth century that protestants have perverted. The scriptures were originally a liturgical book that protestants, after removing those writings they could not fit into their theology, tried to turn into a self study guide to theolgy.
 
inkaneer said:
You left out one big thing that Catholics base on Tradition. That is Scripture itself. You see contrary to the two protestant ideas that 1. the scriptures have always been with us or 2. the scriptures dropped out of heaven in the 17th century leather bound, gilt edged, in the King’s English and the words of Jesus printed in red ink the simple fact is the scriptures are a product of the Catholic Church in the fourth century that protestants have perverted. The scriptures were originally a liturgical book that protestants, after removing those writings they could not fit into their theology, tried to turn into a self study guide to theolgy.
Click to expand...
The origin of the inspired canon of scripture is always one of those things where a lot of n-Cs have fuzzy ideas that are not historically accurate.

I have often pointed out that it didn’t just drop down at the apostles’ feet after Our Lord ascended into heaven. It was at least 25 years after that that the first New Testament writings were even begun, and there was no Jerusalem Kinko’s at that time where they could duplicate and disseminate it from. 😃
 
ddarko said:
And how exactly do you know the Bible is the written word of God 🤷?

Is it because the Bible says so? Oh wait, the Koran says the same thing… so… how do you know the Bible is the written word of God :)?

(Hint: This basically means that you do know that the Bible is the written word of God from some source OUTSIDE of the Bible. But… that means you LIED that you only believe in the written word of God :eek:)

God Bless 🙂
Click to expand...
You do a good job of talking to yourself, and then telling me that I lied because of what you thought up in “your” mind, I will pray for you. 2 Tim 3:16,17 may enlighten you a bit. Blessings.
 
googie said:
I don’t have a Catechism, just tell me in your own words please. Thanks, Blessings.
Click to expand...
You haven’t answered my question posted earlier, so I’ll repeat it here. How did you recieved the written word of God?

I’d also like to know if you took the time to read Church Millitant’s articles. They’re all filled with enough scripture to make your head spin.
 
Shannon9791 said:
You haven’t answered my question posted earlier, so I’ll repeat it here. How did you recieved the written word of God?

I’d also like to know if you took the time to read Church Millitant’s articles. They’re all filled with enough scripture to make your head spin.
Click to expand...
I am not sure about your question.“how did you receive the written word of God”. My obvious answer would be, "I bought a Bible’, however I know you are looking for some other answer,right. Blessings.
 
googie said:
I am not sure about your question.“how did you receive the written word of God”. My obvious answer would be, "I bought a Bible’, however I know you are looking for some other answer,right. Blessings.
Click to expand...
The church operated without a Bible for almost 400 years. We owe the existence of the Bible to Gnosticism. The Gnostics were ‘flooding the market’ so to speak with their writings and allegations that they were inspired. It got to be quite confusing in a world where communication was tedious. There was no consensus on exactly which writings were inspired and worthy of being read in the liturgy and which were not. Thus in a series of local councils or synods beginning with Rome in 382 then Hippo and two in Carthage Catholic bishops developed a canon which for 1100 years was agreed upon. These writings became the canon of 73 books and was the Bible which Jerome translated into Latin around 400 AD. For 1100 years the canon was universally accepted. Seven books disappeared from the protestant version of the canon during the protestant rebellion. But the Catholic Church maintained the original canon and at the Council of Trent formally defined the canon as consisting of the 73 books in Jerome’s Vulgate.

And that is how you and everyone else received the written word of God.
 
googie said:
I am not sure about your question.“how did you receive the written word of God”. My obvious answer would be, "I bought a Bible’, however I know you are looking for some other answer,right. Blessings.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am looking for another answer, but we can look at what you said anyway. How do you know that the Bible you bought is the correct version/translation? How do you know that your interpretation of said Bible is right? Who gave you the idea to go buy a Bible in the first place? Where do you go if you read something out of that Bible that you don’t understand?

These questions will suffice for now. Again, did you read Church Millitant’s writings? They’re a great starting point for someone who has questions about the Catholic Church and wants to know the truth.

And CM, I hope you don’t mind me pimpin your work as much as I am, but I got a little miffed earlier in the thread when Googie talked a little smack about your writings.
 
Hey Googie,

Let us know when you finish those articles I sent you to.

Unlike you, we don’t read the Bible and make up our own doctrine along the way, nor is there anywhere in the Bible where it states that everything that Christians believe and practice has to be found in the Bible. It’s just not there, so the idea that it needs to be is itself unscriptural.

Catholic teaching and doctrine is very much based upon the Bible, which you’d quickly discover if you bothered to read that link to the Catechism because it uses scripture both in the text and in the footnotes, as well as early church documentation.

You’ll never find a more intense and eloquent study of Christian doctrine.
 
Shannon9791 said:
Yes, I am looking for another answer, but we can look at what you said anyway. How do you know that the Bible you bought is the correct version/translation? How do you know that your interpretation of said Bible is right? Who gave you the idea to go buy a Bible in the first place? Where do you go if you read something out of that Bible that you don’t understand?
Click to expand...
Good points all my friend. 👍
These questions will suffice for now. Again, did you read Church Militant’s writings? They’re a great starting point for someone who has questions about the Catholic Church and wants to know the truth.
Click to expand...
😊 Thanks. See Luke 17:10.
And CM, I hope you don’t mind me pimpin your work as much as I am, but I got a little miffed earlier in the thread when Googie talked a little smack about your writings.
Click to expand...
Not at all my friend. All that I share that has any merit is a gift from God. Apocalypsis is where I store anything that may be needed again and much of my stuff began as posts and threads here at CAF.

I hope he reads them and brings any other questions back to this thread because so far he hasn’t offered much or seemed willing to do his own homework.

The answers are all here.
 
googie said:
I have a simple question for you. What is the church of God . Blessings.
Click to expand...
The bumper sticker answer is encapsulated in **1 Timothy 3:15 **(RSV)
if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
(ok, you need a long bumper)

Permit me to unpack this a bit.

Pillars and foundations support things, so that they don’t collapse. Therefore, if the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, that means the Church supports the truth, preventing it from collapsing. Evidently, if the Church can err, then it’s no firm foundation. The truth would collapse like the house built on sand – instead of a foundation – of which Jesus speaks.

The alternative interpretation offered – that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth because it spreads the truth – is incoherent. The purpose of a pillar or foundation is not to disseminate, but to uphold, support. Of course, the Church also spreads the truth, but that is a completely different function from upholding it, keeping it whole and intact.

Another alternative interpretation offered – that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth because it spreads the Bible – is also incoherent. Of course, the Church spreads the Bible which is the truth, but again, that is a different function from upholding the truth, keeping it whole and intact.

You wouldn’t want to mix metaphors just to support human opinion.

Ephesians 2:19-21: . . . you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [20] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, [21] in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;

1 Timothy 3:15 directly defines “household of God” as “the church of the living God.” Therefore, we know that Ephesians 2:19-21 is also referring to the Church, even though that word is not present. In 1 Timothy, the Church is a “pillar and bulwark of the truth”. Here the Church’s own “foundation” is “the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.” Note, then, that we have closely related concepts, but not identical ones. The foundation of the Church itself is Jesus and apostles and prophets.

This is also a foundation. Does it, too, have “faults or cracks”? Since Jesus is the cornerstone, are you saying that it can be a faulty foundation, with Jesus included in that? Are the apostles and prophets also fallible when proclaiming prophecy or the gospel or the inspired Bible message? If so, where do we see any hint of that in Holy Scripture?

As usual, the Bible is unfathomably rich beyond imagining. We know for sure (and you will readily agree) that our Lord Jesus is neither a fallible nor faulty cornerstone. He is part of the foundation for the Church: the Church is built upon Him, along with the apostles and prophets, including St. Peter (the leader of the disciples and first leader of the Church: the pope):

**Matthew 16:18 **And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

But it’s not only Peter. He is a key “stone” or “rock” but Jesus is the cornerstone, other apostles and the prophets are also in the foundation, and we ourselves (all Christians) are incorporated into the Church (following the metaphor), on top of the foundation:
 
Church_Militant said:
Hey Googie,

Let us know when you finish those articles I sent you to.

Unlike you, we don’t read the Bible and make up our own doctrine along the way, nor is there anywhere in the Bible where it states that everything that Christians believe and practice has to be found in the Bible. It’s just not there, so the idea that it needs to be is itself unscriptural.

Catholic teaching and doctrine is very much based upon the Bible, which you’d quickly discover if you bothered to read that link to the Catechism because it uses scripture both in the text and in the footnotes, as well as early church documentation.

You’ll never find a more intense and eloquent study of Christian doctrine./QUOTE If you base all the traditional teaching of the RCC, you really have to stretch your imagination to find scripture that will accommodate those teachings. I have read most of the articles that you sent me, and the statement I just made will fit very well to those writings in the catechism. Blessings.
Click to expand...
 
googie;7373519 If you base all the traditional teaching of the RCC said:
Instead of just saying that, why not give examples and let us tell you why they are scriptual.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top