Things Catholics base on Tradition and not scripture.

[DCNBILL]

God has a wonderful plan for us. While He was here on earth He used people like the apostles to spread the word after He has gave them instructions, and they came to believe in Him. He also used many other people to further the gospel, and they spread the gospel far and wide, teaching from His word , the bible, in fact people are still teaching His word today and people are coming to Christ by faith to trust Him as their Savior. Before Jesus ascended into to heaven, He said that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us in “all” things, so this is His great plan. Have you received the Holy Spirit, so that you may be directed by Him. (Edited)

If you study the scriptures you will find that The Christ gave the apostles more than instruction He gave them His Authority! If you do enough Scripture study and read the early fathers enabling you to make this realization you will discover that The Christ never meant for that authority to end with the apostles.

As for the Holy Spirit, who were those that received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost and began preaching the word? Again the apostles. These apostles then passed this authority and the Holy Spirit on to their successors through the laying on of hands and this continues in His Church to this day.(This is all in Sacred Scripture by the way, you can look it up if you really want the truth) Wow, how God does work in this world! Amen.

As for me, I have received the laying on of hands from one of the successors of the apostles. May God help this unworthy servant.

 

[googie]

Please explain what you think is this “offering for sin” that Catholics make at mass…

Peace
James

In your catechism under # 1367,1371, and 1414 you will see the answer. Blessings.

 

[Lampo]

Googie,

Where in the Bible does it state that for a practice to be considered Christian, it must be found in the Bible?

 

[googie]

googie,

Read Malachi 1:11 below:

That is the sacrifice we offer and in accordance with that prophecy we find the reason for doing so. Moreover, and most importantly, the sacrifice we offer for sin at the mass is the “re-presentation” of the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus. Notice in the book of Revelation chapter 5 that Jesus stands before the altar as a “lamb that has been slain.” Likewise, we see in Hebrews many things concerning Jesus’s once and for all sacrifice. Along with these we see two very significant things in Hebrews.

Hebrews 12:22- 24 tells us the following:

Then later we read this:

Study these in relationship to Malachi 1:11 and you begin to see how heaven and earth are joined in the mass through the sacrifice of Jesus. Likewise, you can put two and two together to see how the altar and the gift on that altar is to be consumed by those on earth. It is the pure sacrifice and offering of Jesus himself that is re-presented in time to nourish us on the Christian journey.

I hope this helps and God bless.

You still don’t get it. Please read Heb10:12-18 very carefully, especially verse 18. There is no need for any further sacrifice, they are finished, unless Calvary was not enough for you. Blessings.

 

[googie]

googie in Christ,

There are many problems here. First of all, there is a hierarchy and scripture tells us that we are to be obedient to the leadership.

Please note that Jesus gave authority and power to the apostles that He did not give to others. This is made quite clear in Matthew 16:19, Matt 18:18, Mark 3:15, John 20:21, and John 20:23. Moreover, the NT church clearly has positions and lines of authority as outlined by the following passages:

Pauls says:

Titus 1:7-11
For a bishop, as God’s steward…… must hold firm to the sure word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to confute those who contradict it. For there are many insubordinate men, empty talkers and deceivers….they have no right to teach.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you.

2 Cor 13:10
I write this while I am away from you, in order that when I come I may not have to be severe in my use of the authority…

Titus 2:15
Declare these things; exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

3 John 1:9
I have written something to the church; but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge my authority.

Acts 14:23
And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting, they committed them to the Lord in whom they believed.

Acts 15:2
And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.

1 Cor 12:28-30
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

1 Tim 3:1-5
THE SAYING is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task. Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher, no drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and no lover of money. He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way; for if a man does not know how to **manage his own household, how can he care for God’s church? **

This is but a smattering of the available verses that indicate that there are various positions of authority within the Church by way of scripture.

God bless.

I will just throw in this little “scriptural” footnote. The Bishop should be the husband of one wife. Blessings.

 

[DCNBILL]

You still don’t get it. Please read Heb10:12-18 very carefully, especially verse 18. There is no need for any further sacrifice, they are finished, unless Calvary was not enough for you. Blessings.

But this is exactly the genius of God and the beauty of the Mass, it makes present, Calvary, in the here and now so that we may directly experience this saving moment in the here and now, by doing exactly what The Christ commanded us to do, what a awesome gift from our Lord and Savior!:bowdown::extrahappy:

 

[googie]

But this is exactly the genius of God and the beauty of the Mass, it makes present, Calvary, in the here and now so that we may directly experience this saving moment in the here and now, by doing exactly what The Christ commanded us to do, what a awesome gift from our Lord and Savior!:bowdown::extrahappy:

You obviously do not believe the word of God, and that is more evident by the funny little faces you display in your quote. Blessings.

 

[DCNBILL]

You obviously do not believe the word of God, and that is more evident by the funny little faces you display in your quote. Blessings.

The personal attack I will put aside, suggesting a lack of theological response. The “funny little faces” are added to “emote” emotion on the part of the poster. The bowing face in the post would mean adoration to The Lord, the extra happy face denotes the joy that the Lord gives me in the Eucharist.

Do not worry, with enough experience you will get the hang of this forum posting thing.

 

[googie]

Really? Then why is this the message that the Holy Spirit sent to St. Paul at his conversion?

Acts 22:16] And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
Really? The why does St. Paul very specifically tell us the following in 1st Corinthians 11? (Emphasis mine)

23] For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
24] and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25] In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
**[27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. **
**28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
****29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
****30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. **
And apparently you disagree with…
Are Catholics Born Again & Assurance of Salvation?
Take that up with the Author.

You may want to go back and see what you wrote about baptism, look closely and you will see that those who were baptized either believed or repented before baptism. Also where did you get that statement; “Chap.V11, Let us stand aloof from such heritics”. Blessings

 

[Pax]

You still don’t get it. Please read Heb10:12-18 very carefully, especially verse 18. There is no need for any further sacrifice, they are finished, unless Calvary was not enough for you. Blessings.

googie in Christ,

LOL!!! You are the one that does not get it. The mass is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of calvary. It is not another sacrifice. Moreover, your reference to Heb 10:12-18 pertains to the OT Jewish sacrifices of goats and bulls. You simply do not understand what I’ve presented or the Book of Hebrews.

God bless.

 

[steve_b]

I will just throw in this little “scriptural” footnote. The Bishop should be the husband of one wife. Blessings.

[Eph. 5:23–32].
23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31* “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church

As the Church is the bride of Christ

As persona Christi, a Bishop, has only one spouse,

 

[Pax]

I will just throw in this little “scriptural” footnote. The Bishop should be the husband of one wife. Blessings.

googie in Christ,

This is not a rebuttal to my presentation. Moreover, it shows a gross misunderstanding of the scripture to which you refer as well as the historical context in which it was written. Please note that many of the early Church converts were already married before there conversion. None of them that became bishops were allowed to have been married a second time even if their wife died. That is all that means. Furthermore, the rules concerning marriage for priests and bishops is a rule/discipline and it is not a doctrinal issue within the Catholic Church.

God bless.

P.S. Try logically understanding what is presented by way of the scriptures presented and then address the presentation in the same fashion. You are not making any headway here.

 

[Cruxis117]

You may want to go back and see what you wrote about **baptism, look closely and you will see that those who were baptized either believed or repented before baptism… **Blessings

[BIBLEDRB]Acts 2:37-39[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Peter 3:21[/BIBLEDRB]

Pay close attention to what it says. “Baptism, being of the liketh form, now saveth you.” In the NSRV translation, it would be rendered as “Baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you”. Interesting verse, eh?

 

[Cruxis117]

By the way, baptism will not take away sin. Water will not take away sin, only the blood of Christ can do that. You can not receive Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, God is spirit and you must receive Him spiritually. Study the scriptures and you will see how to be born again. If baptism was the way to be born again, then why not just baptize everyone and get it over with, it should work, right. You are also right, Jesus did not hold up a door or a vine, but He said; I “am” the door, and I “am” the vine, so was He either of these. Blessings.

Christ may not be a literal “door” as we would see one, but can anyone go to the father without going through him? Of course not!
And in terms of baptism, let me show you two scriptures that disagree with you.

John 3:1-5

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born again.[a]”

4 “How can anyone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

Sounds like Baptism to me. Hmm, let’s check out another bible verse.

1 Peter 3:21
21 Corresponding to that,** baptism now saves you**–not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience–through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Again, Baptism. You seem to ignore the Scriptures for your own, unbiblical opinion.

 

[Pax]

You may want to go back and see what you wrote about baptism, look closely and you will see that those who were baptized either believed or repented before baptism. Also where did you get that statement; “Chap.V11, Let us stand aloof from such heritics”. Blessings

googie in Christ,

There is still no refutation here. Baptism is essential to salvation just as faith is essential. Now…you either need to refute what we are saying about this or simply concede the point.

If you attempting to take a fall back position to attacking infant baptism because infants obviously cannot believe, then let me know that as well. I can give plenty of scripture to help you out with that as well.

God bless.

 

[Lampo]

There is no need for any further sacrifice, they are finished, unless Calvary was not enough for you. Blessings.

Correct. The Mass IS the sacrifice on Calvary. Nothing new or further is being done. The Mass transcends time and space and places us mystically at Calvary and Jesus’ one and only crucifixion.

 

[Lampo]

Googie,

Where in the Bible does it say that all Christian doctrines and practices must be found in the Bible?

 

[JRKH]

In your catechism under # 1367,1371, and 1414 you will see the answer. Blessings.

Googie,
I have reviewed the Catechism references you supplied and see that you have misunderstood. Allow me to clarify.
First, look at #1323, where it says that Christ himself instituted the Eucharistic sacrifice…”to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved Spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection”.
Note what it says here. Perpetuate the (one) sacrifice across the ages….
This is further clarified in #1330 where it says, “ The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior…”
Her it is clear that it is not a repetitious sin offering but a, “making present”, of the one offering. This “making present” can be seen, or explained in one of two ways. Either as the Crucifixion being brought forward to us or we, being taken back to it. In either case it is placing us as a community at the foot of the cross – The one cross, and the single sacrifice. We do not “make an offering for sin”; rather we participate in the one offering.

As you continue to read through the entire section you will more clearly see that you have been misinformed about what the mass is. Even the sections you mention do not support your belief of a repeated sin offering.
Para 1367 begins with the statement, ” The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice”, There is no repeated sacrifice such as in the OT.
Para 1371 does not even mention a “sin offering” though it does speak of offering the Eucharist (the one offering made present) for the faithful departed.
Para 1414 says that the Eucharist is offered for sins, BUT para 1409 says that it is, “…the memorial of Christ’s Passover, that is, of the work of salvation accomplished by the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, a work made present by the liturgical action”
So the offering made on Calvary is made present for us, and for those who have fallen asleep.

In short what you have done is taken 4 “verses” out of a passage containing 87 “verses” to support your position instead of reading and understanding the entire section.
I suggest that you go back to the catechism and begin at paragraph 1322 and prayerfully read all the way through all 87 paragraphs of the section.
The Bottom line is that we do not “make sin offering” but rather participate more fully in the one offering made by Christ….

Peace
James

 

[googie]

googie in Christ,

LOL!!! You are the one that does not get it. The mass is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of calvary. It is not another sacrifice. Moreover, your reference to Heb 10:12-18 pertains to the OT Jewish sacrifices of goats and bulls. You simply do not understand what I’ve presented or the Book of Hebrews.

God bless.

I don’t think you are reading from the Bible in reference to Heb 10:12-18, this is talking about Jesus, look at verse 12, it says “this man”, referring to Jesus Christ, “offered one sacrifice for sin forever”, it is very clear. By the way, your catechism calls “it” a sacrifice. Blessings.

 

[googie]

googie in Christ,

This is not a rebuttal to my presentation. Moreover, it shows a gross misunderstanding of the scripture to which you refer as well as the historical context in which it was written. Please note that many of the early Church converts were already married before there conversion. None of them that became bishops were allowed to have been married a second time even if their wife died. That is all that means. Furthermore, the rules concerning marriage for priests and bishops is a rule/discipline and it is not a doctrinal issue within the Catholic Church.

God bless.

P.S. Try logically understanding what is presented by way of the scriptures presented and then address the presentation in the same fashion. You are not making any headway here.

I am sorry that I cannot believe what you say about this “priest being married” thing. It is a fact that priests in the RCC are not permitted to marry, I have known several to leave the RCC so they could be married. Scripturally a person can marry after their spouse dies. Blessings.