Things heating up in Australia over new mandatory reporting of confessions law
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Good. I’m not in favor with chipping away at traditional law of privilege and would love to know how they are planning to enforce this “law” anyway. Next they will be bugging all the confessionals, I suppose.
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
This is an important point (but let’s not encourage them by giving them bad ideas!).
People are so quick to “fix” what they perceive as a problem with a solution that cannot logistically work. In the U.S., we have some of the dumbest laws on the books because someone was trying to fix what wasn’t broken to address a problem they didn’t fully understand.
People are so quick to “fix” what they perceive as a problem with a solution that cannot logistically work. In the U.S., we have some of the dumbest laws on the books because someone was trying to fix what wasn’t broken to address a problem they didn’t fully understand.
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LittleFlower
Guest
Circumscribing the seal of the confessional
There is no way I would want to defend a seal of the confessional so widely drawn as that defined by Archbishop Anthony Fisher. However, I do think there is a case for respecting the seal of the confessional tightly defined as done by the canonist Fr Ian Waters. But to do that, the Church would...
www.eurekastreet.com.au
Whoa. Can you imagine an entire country only practicing “the third rite of reconciliation which replaces individual confession with a communal rite of contrition and forgiveness”?
Before Mass, every time? Once a month?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I have an additional concern that this move is being pushed not just to “fix” a perceived problem of child sexual abuse, but to get rid of the privilege in general so that evidence can be gathered for any old crime that the prosecutor wants to investigate. And like I said, how will they enforce it? The confessional is one place I expect to have some privacy. I have accepted that the government can bug my phone, intercept my e-mail and watch my house with all kinds of fancy cameras that might even peep inside, but when they want to eavesdrop on my confessions even I say that’s going too far.
I am also not at all convinced that child sex abusers would mention their behavior in confession, simply because they are usually in some state of denial that they are doing anything wrong. Of course, with this law, they’d be even less likely to mention it. So this law is serving no purpose as far as I can see. Except church-bashing and opening the door to Big Brother listening in on all your confessions.
I am also not at all convinced that child sex abusers would mention their behavior in confession, simply because they are usually in some state of denial that they are doing anything wrong. Of course, with this law, they’d be even less likely to mention it. So this law is serving no purpose as far as I can see. Except church-bashing and opening the door to Big Brother listening in on all your confessions.
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mVitus
Guest
That was an interesting article. I’m not sure the “it’s raining in Melbourne” example complements with the CSA case given one is much more easy in regards to identifying who said it, but it does give a thought-out perspective to that side of the coin.
I too am wondering hiw they will enforce things. And if they have sting operations, does the Seal apply to a fake Confession? Since any sting operation would have to be something like, “My name is Gary Jerome Smith and I have abused.” (I’m guessing it does.)
I too am wondering hiw they will enforce things. And if they have sting operations, does the Seal apply to a fake Confession? Since any sting operation would have to be something like, “My name is Gary Jerome Smith and I have abused.” (I’m guessing it does.)
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deMontfort
Guest
Apparently the Church needs to go underground in Australia, similar to how it is in China.
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DaveBj
Guest
There’s a simple solution that is being discussed in another thread – eliminate face-to-face confessions and go to a system by which the priest and the penitent truly cannot visually identify each other.
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semper_catholicus
Guest
Good for them.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
We have this already if you go to particular churches. My concern is that the government would then start trying to gather circumstantial evidence on who confessed to whom. Also, it makes it very difficult to have a regular confessor. The next time some Catholic priest or lay person gets accused of abuse, are the cops going to track down all the priests at his parish and start grilling them as to who might have heard a confession about sexual abuse, or who might have heard a confession that sounded like a 40-year-old man, etc? How far is this going to go? Are we all going to have to use a voice masking system and wear disguises when we head for a confessional?
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causer00000
Guest
How about they just plant bugs in confessionals like the Communist did? Uhg… Just uhg…
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
These are all great points. You would hope the government wouldn’t go that far (although I wouldn’t count on it).
It is interesting that almost any priest who discusses this sacrament says that he honestly doesn’t remember the confessions he hears. They consider this forgetfulness a gift, since of course they can’t use or refer to past confessions anyway, and since I am sure they don’t want to carry around the memory of everyone’s particular sins. If the government were ever to try to force a priest to testify about confessions, I wonder if they would understand that priests honestly don’t remember most of them, or if they would assume that the priest is lying?
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sheepovrep
Guest
Does the church report to the state, or the state to the church?
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Magnanimity
Guest
The confessional is more or less the last bastion of privacy, since the psychologist and psychiatrist are “mandatory reporters,” at least in the U.S. The confessional would be the last remaining safe place to confess any heinous criminal act.
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jfz178
Guest
I wouldn’t bet on that. Priests have done a lot of things that “priests would never do.” Read history. Read the news.
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jfz178
Guest
Oh yeah, because that has worked so well throughout history…not!
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jfz178
Guest
How do you know they aren’t? The NSA, FBI and other agencies are doing all sorts of things they shouldn’t be.
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Hope1960
Guest
Do you really believe law enforcement is bugging Catholic Confessionals?
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Hope1960
Guest
From everything I’ve read, priests will never break the seal of the Confessional.
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FiveLinden
Guest
Victims who raise the offence against them in confession (a quite regular occurrence, judging from the investigations) will then tell police they did so. In the absence of a denial from the priest the evidence of the victim, if not otherwise contradicted, will stand. This is plainly non-disclosure and if it is unlawful with no privilege, the priest may be convicted. The case of an offender who wishes to remain anonymous if far less likely to come to the attention of the police although disclosure to a counsellor with a duty to report might trigger an investigation. The immediate result I imagine would be the creation of confessionals with no possibility of those on one side of the screen identifying the other. Phones are one possibility, although your bugging fear comes into play more strongly then.
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