Eh, there are treatments “for the flow of menses” going back at least to Roman times. Sure, childbearing was important, but there have always been plenty of women who wanted to prevent conception or to procure an abortion. Not saying that’s how it should be, but it’s been a long-standing desire.The modern “feminist” mentality is far from how it was in ancient times. Women wanted their wombs to be opened. They prayed and made sacrifices to fertility goddesses. And these women were married. Eve was married to Adam, in the sense that he was her husband. Ancient methods of trying to “get rid of” an unwanted child were natural herbs, not pills with awful side effects. I find the whole sex thing more trouble than it’s even worth. Really? Really? It’s that great? Not really, and I should know. I would much rather relax in a warm bath than worry about a messy, painful, nerve wracking thing that could very well have a result I don’t want. Something I never enjoyed anyway, so why the hell bother or take the risks? It’s ridiculous. All the worry and fuss over having access to pills, testing, and all the rest, when there’s a perfectly natural way to avoid the whole thing. Legs closed, womb closed. God, it’s just so damned frustrating!
As a recovering porn addict I do know what it’s like. Frequent prayer eventually breaks the bonds. While temptations do not cease, they decrease. Every time something like that comes to mind, I pray: “God help me.” Doing that for a long time acts as a shield to further thoughts. The “it” is only the great deceiver at work. Some men are alcoholics or drug abusers. For others, porn becomes a habit.It is more than that, Ed.
Some men now care more about the fantasy than their partner. How can you compete as a partner fight against an idealized fantasy that does what you will not do?
Your sex drive decreases due to a lot of factors, some of which you can imagine (and you know what I am talking about) and which I will not mention here for decency reasons.
It also stays in your mind, sticking in your memory like it is part of your physical brain. And when you remember it, the memory comes at importune times when IT LIKES IT.
So yeah, it is not as simple as you think. What you said is art of the truth, though.
I think nearly every feminist critic who has even a slight platform is always critical of 3rd wave feminism which would not include what you are talking about.You’re complaining that feminists don’t stop men from going to strip clubs?
You’ll find feminists for those establishments and feminists against them. Personally, I believe in MYOB. If they violate your conscience, don’t go. But don’t complain that another diverse group of people dedicated to the betterment of women isn’t controlling your behavior for you.
Why weren’t feminists protesting strip clubs in the 1970’s? Because back then, raping your wife wasn’t a crime. My mom was told that as a divorced woman, she couldn’t buy car insurance. Overt discrimination in many arenas was totally legal. In short, feminists had bigger fish to fry than a few women (by and large) choosing to be strippers and men choosing to enjoy them.
If you’ve seen some of Tommy Sotomayor’s interviews with women, you’ll find that if they are not responsible in other life choices, then they often are not responsible when it comes to taking birth control pills which depend on women taking them consistently-----and they don’t and get pregnant anyways.I have a very hard time believing women needed a lot of ‘convincing’ to take a pill that greatly reduces the risk of unplanned pregnancy. That’s pretty much been the female dream since the beginning of time.
Do you recall the saying “Women give sex to get love. Men give love to get sex”. True in many cases, of course, but some seem to think “that’s the way they were designed by God” and I’ve even seen “Christians” claim that a woman whose husband does NOT cheat on her should “get down on her knees and thank God” for that. I can also think of women in miserable marriages state “well at least he doesn’t cheat on me”, as if any man who doesn’t cheat is a hero, and that men are not capable of fidelity, except perhaps by the grace of God. It can get to the point where wives of cheating husbands (whether the cheating be physical adultery or porn) are accused of not giving them enough sex.One thing that occurs to me now is that we were taught that women don’t desire sex for the sake of sex. It was very much an attitude of men want sex and women give them sex because they want other things in the relationship. Which isn’t a view that does men or women any favors, imo.
The shaming many women get for sexual sin often results in a lot of denial. I can think of many women on CAF confessing to having trouble with porn and erotica, who seem to think “I must be the only woman in the world who struggles with this sin” and that not only are they guilty of unchastity, they are guilty of going against the way God designed women.As a gal, of course, I can testify that, while women tend to be more subtle about sexual attraction, most every women I know has looked at a guy and thought “wow, I’d sure like to do things with him!” Of course, if you’ve spent years thinking women don’t want sex, you start wondering if you’re some sort of freak or nymphomaniac.
The flip side of this as well, if the guy doesn’t want sex as much, is that the woman ends up feeling undesirable or like there’s something wrong with her. Because it’s such an anomaly for a man to turn down an opportunity to have sex with an attractive woman, if a guy isn’t in the mood there must be some sort of serious problem. I’ve been reliably informed by those with more experience that a lot of men do want more than “hey let’s have sex now.” And it’s not all simply about the woman prettying herself up so she’s more attractive to him.Do you recall the saying “Women give sex to get love. Men give love to get sex”. True in many cases, of course, but some seem to think “that’s the way they were designed by God” and I’ve even seen “Christians” claim that a woman whose husband does NOT cheat on her should “get down on her knees and thank God” for that. I can also think of women in miserable marriages state “well at least he doesn’t cheat on me”, as if any man who doesn’t cheat is a hero, and that men are not capable of fidelity, except perhaps by the grace of God. It can get to the point where wives of cheating husbands (whether the cheating be physical adultery or porn) are accused of not giving them enough sex.
I recall some chaste men on CAF have come across this problem outside of marriage with girlfriends wondering if they really are “into” them or are even secretly gay.The flip side of this as well, if the guy doesn’t want sex as much, is that the woman ends up feeling undesirable or like there’s something wrong with her.
I know that it is certainly not unheard of for married men to say “sorry, not tonight, hon, I’m too tired”. I don’t know if your parents let you watch Married…With Children, but Al shirking Peggy’s advances was a running gag on that sitcom. Even though Peg was depicted as trashy, but certainly higher up on most 1-10 rating scales for a woman, than Al would be for a man.Because it’s such an anomaly for a man to turn down an opportunity to have sex with an attractive woman, if a guy isn’t in the mood there must be some sort of serious problem. I’ve been reliably informed by those with more experience that a lot of men do want more than “hey let’s have sex now.” And it’s not all simply about the woman prettying herself up so she’s more attractive to him.
Or before that Mr. Roper always avoiding Mrs. Roper on “Three’s company”.I recall some chaste men on CAF have come across this problem outside of marriage with girlfriends wondering if they really are “into” them or are even secretly gay.
I even recall a topic on a non-Catholic Christian forum with a woman worried that her fiancé was always a perfect gentleman and never appeared to be tempted to sin sexually with her, and even many Christians advised her to break up with him in case he was gay, cheating with some other woman, or at least had some problem with his sex drive. Very few people actually commended the man for his restraint, that was very disturbing to me.
I know that it is certainly not unheard of for married men to say “sorry, not tonight, hon, I’m too tired”. I don’t know if your parents let you watch Married…With Children, but Al shirking Peggy’s advances was a running gag on that sitcom. Even though Peg was depicted as trashy, but certainly higher up on most 1-10 rating scales for a woman, than Al would be for a man.
Especially when civilizations adopt terrible cultural ideas, which is happening today.Eh, there are treatments “for the flow of menses” going back at least to Roman times. Sure, childbearing was important, but there have always been plenty of women who wanted to prevent conception or to procure an abortion. Not saying that’s how it should be, but it’s been a long-standing desire.
If people were more (dare I use the word on here)…charitable AND if they stopped denying biological reality to virtue-signal or be the next civil rights movement, a lot of those problems would go away.–It’s OK for women (and for people in general) to have needs and express their needs. There are people out there who give “needs” a bad name, but needs are a real thing. If you have less than you need of whatever (food, water, sleep, exercise, free time) you’re going to be less effective than if you have enough.
–Ideally, there should be some sort of rough fairness between husband and wife. Ideally, it shouldn’t be the case that either the husband or wife has vastly more free time or spending money than the other.
If you’re talking about 3rd wave feminism, that is rooted in post-modernism which came from 1960s Communist activists in France who were, as clinical psychologist Jordan B. Peterson notes, tried of Marx’s predictions being woefully inaccurate. This is called post-modernism. It’s anti-free speech and the root goal is to destroy the nuclear family as a means of taking the inside track on collapsing the West from within. It’s also why everyone is so “surprised” as to what is going on with college campuses----at least, those who are even remotely aware there is a problem. A lot of people just bust their backs to pay tens of thousands without even realizing it—or just think that they are sacrificing “for the children”-----which ironically happens to be a far-left line for government intervention.Back in the early 1960s, Gloria Steinem went undercover as a Playboy bunny and wrote up her experiences as “A Bunny’s Tale.”
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/26/gloria-steinem-bunny-tale-still-relevant-today
"At the core of “A Bunny’s Tale” is Steinem’s belief that the sexual revolution will fail if men are the only ones allowed to define it. In taking on Playboy magazine founder Hugh Hefner and his Playboy Clubs, Steinem showed she could more than hold her own against an opponent with his own media empire.
"By 1960 Playboy was reaching a million readers a month, and in 1963, when “A Bunny’s Tale” was published, the Playboy Clubs were flourishing. Hefner, who had started Playboy in 1953, was at the height of his influence, and not content with making himself rich. He had in 1962 begun penning monthly essays that he insisted would be “the Emancipation Proclamation of the sexual revolution”.
“Steinem was unimpressed. She did not hesitate to treat Hefner’s emancipation claims as bunk. She went after him where he was most vulnerable, showing readers what it actually meant to work at a Playboy Club.”
Check that out–Playboy started in 1953, that most wholesome of postwar years.
That means that by the time the sexual revolution really got rolling in the US, Playboy Magazine had been publishing for nearly two decades.
I wonder–did 1970s feminism start the sexual revolution, or does it make more sense to say that 1970s feminism was a reaction to the ongoing sexual revolution?
Then the “women’s movement” needs to disavow things like abortion. Because that is in large what it is all about no matter what the Emancipation says.Pope Francis on women’s emancipation:
It IS a strawman argument.Nutpicking:
A the fallacious tactic of picking out and showcasing the nuttiest member(s) of a group as the best representative(s) of that group – hence, “picking the nut”. It’s cherry picking a poor representative of the group – almost a straw man – to use as ad hominem against the group.
There have always been terrible ideas.Especially when civilizations adopt terrible cultural ideas, which is happening today.
I’ll requote the bit I wrote that you were replying to (for clarity). I wrote:If people were more (dare I use the word on here)…charitable AND if they stopped denying biological reality to virtue-signal or be the next civil rights movement, a lot of those problems would go away.
Having seen enough blue pill marriages and having grown up with parents in one of them, even though it was supposedly one of those ostensibly “religious conservative marriages” that you love to hate, I know you are full of it.I’ll requote the bit I wrote that you were replying to (for clarity). I wrote:
“–It’s OK for women (and for people in general) to have needs and express their needs. There are people out there who give “needs” a bad name, but needs are a real thing. If you have less than you need of whatever (food, water, sleep, exercise, free time) you’re going to be less effective than if you have enough.
–Ideally, there should be some sort of rough fairness between husband and wife. Ideally, it shouldn’t be the case that either the husband or wife has vastly more free time or spending money than the other.”
I think that (being a single guy) you don’t realize exactly how hard the stuff I talked about is to deal with in practice and how pervasive they are as issues in the conservative religious world. These issues come up over and over again on CAF because the demands of normal family life are enormous (even for a 2.0 kid family) and the conservative religious ideals for mothers are so unrealistic. I also would point that it isn’t just liberal people who do a lot of “denying biological reality.” Conservative religious people, are, sad to say, just as capable of “denying biological reality” in terms of treating women as capable of unlimited work, unlimited sex, unlimited pregnancies, unlimited energy, unlimited time, unlimited cheerfulness and obedience, having no medical, social, or mental health needs, etc–it’s seen (and by too many on CAF and by practically every guy in the manosphere) as simply a baseline norm for women to not have any needs at all.
And that is a major contributor to feminism–conservative religious people being completely unrealistic about women and women’s needs.
Some more thoughts:
–The Golden Rule is much neglected in the manosphere and in far to much of the conservative religious world: “Do to others as you would have them do to you.” That applies to women, too. If you have expectations of your wife that you would not tolerate for yourself or would find oppressive an unreasonable, then those expectations probably need some recalibration.
–It’s typical of manosphere men (sadly, especially “Christian” manosphere men) to want a slave, not a wife.
–It’s typical of the “Christian” manosphere to have very little sense of justice, mercy or common sense with regard to what is reasonable to expect of a wife (or children, for that matter).
–It’s also typical of “Christian” manosphere guys to treat any talk of women’s needs or inherent dignity as “feminism” and inherently illegitimate.
–Unsurprisingly, women (including good, devout, chaste, traditional Catholic women) are not lining up around the block for manosphere guys. I’m sure there are some women who wind up with a manosphere guy, and I pity them from the bottom of my heart.
If I were you, I’d spend more time learning about marriage and women from happily married people rather than divorced guys and “confirmed bachelor” types.
On the contrary, I daresay plenty of us are used to dealing with men who “meet their own needs first”, usually at the expense of our own needs being irrelevant.Having seen enough blue pill marriages and having grown up with parents in one of them, even though it was supposedly one of those ostensibly “religious conservative marriages” that you love to hate, I know you are full of it.
You are unaccustomed to dealing with a group of men who are determined to meet their own needs first. To those who have grown up expecting others to atone for their sexism, privilege or whatever guilt trip you use to manipulate, this will feel like selfishness.