Things I learned from feminism I wish I'd learned from Christianity

[Sophie_Lawrence]

It doesn’t make a lot of sense to have your marriage and parenting gurus be non-parents.

I suppose it might make sense if they had a professional life working with children, but as far as I know, neither Ayn Rand nor Nietzsche nor Roosh V had a secret career as a preschool teacher or child psychologist.

Really, would you take workout advice from somebody who hadn’t actually put their ideas into visible practice?

It makes a lot more sense to locate happy families and ask how they do it.

Oh my, there’s a clip from the Simpsons where Maggie is sent to the Ayn Rand School for Tots. It’s called “The Longest Daycare”

 

[Xantippe]

I was just looking at the Amazon page on Roosh V’s book “Bang Poland,” which is a pickup artist field guide.

“The best resources for studying the Polish language”

Having studied a lot of Russian and a few years of Polish, I have one thing to say: Lots of luck with that!

“A breakdown of the best Polish city to visit for securing romance (hint: it’s not Krakow)”

Yeah. Too many nuns.

“What to do when a Polish guy inevitably tries to block you”

Say, “Hi, Chevalier!”

 

[faithsmind]

Ayn Rand was a woman and was most definitely not a Republican. That was a reference to the left who claim that today’s Republicans are influenced by Ayn Rand’s philosophy when almost none of them have read it and nearly all of them lack consistency in their principles.

As for The Fountainhead, you apparently missed the messages about how there is no dichotomy between the moral and the practical and the importance of integrity.

It was used in the context of avoiding a state contract that is inherently unjust.

It was an affirmation of the value of autonomy and personal responsibility. Surely the “women are people too and have needs” crowd here should be able to sympathize with that.

Ok, but now that I understand both you and Super Luigi better, please understand that there are aspects of feminism that have some merit as well.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Ok, but now that I understand both you and Super Luigi better, please understand that there are aspects of feminism that have some merit as well.

I’ve already said that on here, which is why I pound the inside paint on 3rd wave feminism. People need to realize there is a difference between Anita Sarkessian and Christina Hof-Sommers, just as there is a difference between Tommy Sotomayor and Dalrock.

I think some feminists make points in line with Catholic teaching on pornography, the exploitation of women and make interesting points on the trans issue.

But let’s not pretend that the capital red pill guys on reddit have the same influence or political power as Hollywood or the Western academy.

They don’t, and it’s not an even trade with feminism, or more specifically 3rd wave feminism.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Darklight:

In reference to your earlier post, the names I have been referencing are Tommy Sotomayor, Laci Green, Chris Maldonado (Chris Ray Gun) TJ Kirk (Amazing Atheist), Greg Fluhrer (Amoured Skeptic), June (Shoe 0n Head) and Steven Crowder

These folks have a range of opinions. Sotomayor is an MRA, Crowder is a Christian Canadian-American radio commentator on the right, the rest of the folks are center-left skeptics (some like Kirk and Maldonado supported Bernie) and atheists and Laci Green is new to the red pill club, although that’s more so because she only went public recently with her views.

They are quite different from the people Xantippe has been discussing.

 

[SuperLuigi]

One of these days as I drift evermore authoritarian right, you and I should have a conversation about politics, philosophy, and history. I would be interested in seeing how you maintain your libertarian right stance with the rise of the SJW’s.

Well, going authoritarian won’t help. That’s how the Evangelical right lost. Not because of an “archaic” belief in God or Jesus, but because their entire dominance was just because 90% of people happened to agree with them for a time and their arguments were just a mix of appeal to authority (because Bible or Mom says so) and judgement (you’re going to hell because you’re atheist or Catholic) for the other 10%.

The reason I stay (I guess) classical libertarian (before 9-11 conspiracy theories, an obsession with pot and arguing that government re-defining marriage is small government just so they can virtue-signal to the LGBTQ folks) is that the Catholic and incentive, natural-based arguments will defeat their arguments in the marketplace ideas every time and to some degree they know it.

Even Catholics who have to have that 1 or 2 pet issue on the left to save some face in polite society have to throw the Faith to the wind and resort to the same emotional logical fallacies to defend the indefensible.

Of course, I’m open to talking more on here about these topics.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Ok, but now that I understand both you and Super Luigi better, please understand that there are aspects of feminism that have some merit as well.

There may have been some aspects of 1st wave feminism that had some valid points (relating to property ownership), but the movement was problematic even back then.

Other than that, the only feminist I can think of who had a really good point was bell hooks when she wrote that, “Gangsta culture is the essence of patriarchal masculinity.”

Well, going authoritarian won’t help. That’s how the Evangelical right lost. Not because of an “archaic” belief in God or Jesus, but because their entire dominance was just because 90% of people happened to agree with them for a time and their arguments were just a mix of appeal to authority (because Bible or Mom says so) and judgement (you’re going to hell because you’re atheist or Catholic) for the other 10%.

Agreed, the poor arguments advanced by the religious right left them woefully unprepared when the left infiltrated academia. Combined with a deliberate attempt to change demographics in the 60’s, the left stole the younger generation and diluted the voting population with groups that would be more receptive to their ideas.

I concur with Hans Hermann Hoppe, physical removal (banishment) of the individuals who advocate certain ideologies will be a necessity for civilization.

The reason I stay (I guess) classical libertarian (before 9-11 conspiracy theories, an obsession with pot and arguing that government re-defining marriage is small government just so they can virtue-signal to the LGBTQ folks) is that the Catholic and incentive, natural-based arguments will defeat their arguments in the marketplace ideas every time and to some degree they know it.

When I was really into Ayn Rand, I joined a few libertarian groups but realized that they were all full of hippies who smoked pot and argued in favor of gay marriage and open borders. They were more or less useful idiots for the authoritarian left.

Even Catholics who have to have that 1 or 2 pet issue on the left to save some face in polite society have to throw the Faith to the wind and resort to the same emotional logical fallacies to defend the indefensible.

Of course, I’m open to talking more on here about these topics.

Sounds good, I will shoot you a pm sometime.

 

[ThePCWife]

Bell Hooks was completely wrong. “gangsta” culture is heavily feminized and anti-patriarchal. It’s the opposite of patriarchal masculinity. This is a common feminist error, of course. It’s pretty funny to see you agreeing with it. But then again, Red Pill is about men acting like the unfortunates raised entirely by single mothers and prison culture and calling that manly.

 

[Xantippe]

Bell Hooks was completely wrong. “gangsta” culture is heavily feminized and anti-patriarchal. It’s the opposite of patriarchal masculinity. This is a common feminist error, of course. It’s pretty funny to see you agreeing with it. ** But then again, Red Pill is about men acting like the unfortunates raised entirely by single mothers and prison culture and calling that manly.**

Right.

Traditional masculinity means being prepared to care for other people (see, for example, St. Joseph).

It’s hard to think of an example of “gangsta” culture in the Bible. King David? But that didn’t go well. Samson? Ditto.

 

[Estevao]

You’re going on a date!

That’s wonderful. Have a good time!

It was a good time. And when I asked if she wanted to do it again sometime, she said “maybe” and then immediately started telling me when she was free. I don’t think she really meant “maybe”.

Reminded me of this song:

youtube.com/watch?v=zFFXQt7HwPA

 

[Xantippe]

It was a good time. And when I asked if she wanted to do it again sometime, she said “maybe” and then immediately started telling me when she was free. I don’t think she really meant “maybe”.

Reminded me of this song:

youtube.com/watch?v=zFFXQt7HwPA

That’s adorable!

If you want to keep going out with her, next time you go out, tell her to ask YOU out.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Bell Hooks was completely wrong. “gangsta” culture is heavily feminized and anti-patriarchal. It’s the opposite of patriarchal masculinity. This is a common feminist error, of course. It’s pretty funny to see you agreeing with it. But then again, Red Pill is about men acting like the unfortunates raised entirely by single mothers and prison culture and calling that manly.

In “gangsta” culture, boys really don’t have fathers period, so there is no role for any patriarchy.

Here toughness gets confused with having male-dominance or a father figure around.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Right.

Traditional masculinity means being prepared to care for other people (see, for example, St. Joseph).

It’s hard to think of an example of “gangsta” culture in the Bible. King David? But that didn’t go well. Samson? Ditto.

No, there’s no gangsta culture in the Bible among the Jews or Christians. The pagans would have been a more appropriate comparison.

 

[Estevao]

That’s adorable!

If you want to keep going out with her, next time you go out, tell her to ask YOU out.

I like that tip I will try it! Technically that was our second date and this one will be the third. That book I was talking about said it should be romantic, but I think it’s a bit too fast for my liking. Perhaps we have the rest of our lives together so no need to rush (only kidding!).

I just hope my stalker chick hears about us soon enough so the texts and fb messages stop.

 

[Xantippe]

No, there’s no gangsta culture in the Bible among the Jews or Christians. The pagans would have been a more appropriate comparison.

I don’t know that you’re going to find any gangsta culture in Athens, either.

In Rome I suppose you have Caligula, but he got assassinated within 4 years of his reign, so that suggests a certain lack of enthusiasm for his lifestyle.

 

[Xantippe]

I like that tip I will try it! Technically that was our second date and this one will be the third. That book I was talking about said it should be romantic, but I think it’s a bit too fast for my liking. Perhaps we have the rest of our lives together so no need to rush (only kidding!).

I just hope my stalker chick hears about us soon enough so the texts and fb messages stop.

If she likes you and you like her, it’s going to be romantic, even if you only go feed ducks.

But yeah, creating an artificially romantic environment is unnecessary at this point (although it is generally appreciated for Valentine’s, anniversaries, etc).

One little caution I have to mention about making a self-consciously romantic atmosphere when there’s no obvious reason (Valentine’s, anniversary, etc.) is that further on in your relationship, it may accidentally look like you are setting up a proposal, so it might disappoint her when a proposal doesn’t appear on that occasion. Early days, of course, but I thought you should know there is some danger to pouring on the romance.

That might or might not work on your stalker chick. Either she’s reasonably sensible, in which case she’ll probably back off, or she’s not sensible, in which case it may aggravate her more. Either way, the young woman you’re seeing deserves a head’s up. You may have done this already, but something along the lines of, “Suzie and I never dated, but she’s weird about me and she’s done a lot of weird stuff. If anything happens that bothers you, it’s not your imagination, and don’t feel bad about telling me about anything off.” You want to get the basic idea across with minimum drama.

You’ve probably already heard this or done some of this, but:

–don’t answer her texts or messages
–block Suzie however possible
–lock down the Facebook

I’d also be very cautious about publicizing where I’m going to be or not be.

Also, come to think of it, you might want to suggest some of this to the woman you are seeing if her Facebook or social media presence is too friendly.

Without sounding like a loon, of course.

 

[DarkLight]

You’ve probably already heard this or done some of this, but:

–don’t answer her texts or messages
–block Suzie however possible
–lock down the Facebook

I’d also be very cautious about publicizing where I’m going to be or not be.

Also, come to think of it, you might want to suggest some of this to the woman you are seeing if her Facebook or social media presence is too friendly.

Without sounding like a loon, of course.

General advice - if you have any suspicion that there might be a threat, or that you might need to use legal means at any point, don’t block anything. Don’t answer, and set it up so you don’t have to see or read any messages, but don’t block.

The reason is if, sadly, legal means do have to become involved, you can show that the individual has repeatedly tried to contact you despite being instructed not to, and have a record of what they said.

 

[Estevao]

Thank you so much for the advice Xantippe (and DarkLight). I think our last outing was romantic in a way (her eyes are something else), although we’re both a bit shy. I will keep your advice in mind as we go forward if we keep going steady .

I had managed to cut off contact with the stalker sometime last year but I made a big mistake in february when I saw her at a thing and responded to her text when she texted me after. Big mistake on my end, but I had a stupid reason for doing so (she has a friend I wouldn’t mind dating) that wasn’t unnecessary in the end because they aren’t as good friends as I thought and I would have eventually gotten in this other woman’s circle anyway as I have already. But I was a bit more desperate back then. Now I realize that I have a shot with a lot of women around my city so there’s no need to be desperate like that again and I’m trying to stop talking to the stalker again.

 

[Xantippe]

General advice - if you have any suspicion that there might be a threat, or that you might need to use legal means at any point, don’t block anything. Don’t answer, and set it up so you don’t have to see or read any messages, but don’t block.

The reason is if, sadly, legal means do have to become involved, you can show that the individual has repeatedly tried to contact you despite being instructed not to, and have a record of what they said.

Ah–that’s interesting.

Good to know.

 

[Xantippe]

Thank you so much for the advice Xantippe (and DarkLight). I think our last outing was romantic in a way (her eyes are something else), although we’re both a bit shy. I will keep your advice in mind as we go forward if we keep going steady .

I had managed to cut off contact with the stalker sometime last year but I made a big mistake in february when I saw her at a thing and responded to her text when she texted me after. Big mistake on my end, but I had a stupid reason for doing so (she has a friend I wouldn’t mind dating) that wasn’t unnecessary in the end because they aren’t as good friends as I thought and I would have eventually gotten in this other woman’s circle anyway as I have already. But I was a bit more desperate back then. Now I realize that I have a shot with a lot of women around my city so there’s no need to be desperate like that again and I’m trying to stop talking to the stalker again.

Yeah, that’s just about the worst thing possible–trying to get your stalker to set you up with somebody else.



But everybody does dumb stuff. (A couple nights ago, I was embarrassing my big kids by telling them about this time that I had a thing for a boy when I was 16 and was calling and calling and calling him and just “happening” to be where I knew he was going to be.) You cringe when you remember that stuff, but hopefully you learn–like not ever doing whatever stuff Suzie the Stalker has been doing.

You sound so much more confident!