Things regarding private revelation can get so interesting

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Pope JPII was wearing one; my grandma was wearing one. They both had a very happy death. Now, I am wearing one. There much more devotion and faith practice for one to follow than just wearing it.
 
There much more devotion and faith practice for one to follow than just wearing it.
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…👍 …

This document from Catholic Culture makes good reading on the scapular and would inform any person on the devotion. I am only quoting from it in part:
catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=5863
The Scapular teaches a practical confidence in the intercession of the Blessed Virgin to obtain for its wearer the grace of final perseverance, or a happy death. The two general conditions to obtain this benefit are that one must honor Mary by wearing the Scapular faithfully until death and endeavor sincerely to lead a Christian life.
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The question posed, which I think is the one to which EM refers reveals an incorrect understanding of the wearing of a scapular: It does not remove any obligation to “work out your own salvation in fear and trembling”.
Doesn’t her words to St. Simon Stock seem a little bit heretical. That merely by wearing a Scapular you will be saved?
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Other than that, belief in the scapular and the promises etc. are not binding on Catholics as it comes under “private revelation” which is deemed “worthy of belief” only by The Church and not mandatory for Catholics - optional only, which has been covered in another thread.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3634979&postcount=170*
 
There is also the issue of whether the Church officially guarantees this item.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
There is also the issue of whether the Church officially guarantees this item.
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I think it is best if you could point to some church documentation mentioning about the issue. It is easier for us to discuss.
 
I think it’s a valid question too. I questioned that once too.
 
My experienced with this item is that those who believe in it act as if the Church has verified that following the instructions given getting to Heaven is a done deal (what I jokingly called a ‘guarantee’).

I am not aware of the Church verifying any claims made for assorted devotional practices.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
My experienced with this item is that those who believe in it act as if the Church has verified that following the instructions given getting to Heaven is a done deal (what I jokingly called a ‘guarantee’).
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As you know it isn’t a magic piece of cloth. How did you explain to those who thought it was ‘magic’?
 
Eilish_Maura said:
My experienced with this item is that those who believe in it act as if the Church has verified that following the instructions given getting to Heaven is a done deal (what I jokingly called a ‘guarantee’).

I am not aware of the Church verifying any claims made for assorted devotional practices.
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Are there not multiple orders of Carmelites? Discalced, Lay and more. I am sure, they would have answers for one.

We are called to different devotions. One must remember, Simon Stock lived I believe in the early Middle Ages, 1100 or so, we are in the year of 2008. Times are quite different.

"What can be safely believed because of papal decree is the promise known as the **“Sabbatine Privilege.” **The Sabbatine Privilege is the promise that Our Lady will intercede and pray for those in Purgatory who, in earthly life:
  • wore the Scapular in good faith
  • were chaste according to their state in life;
  • daily recited the Divine Office or, with the permission of one’s Confessor, the Little Office of Our Lady [a shorter form of the Divine Office in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary, used by certain religious orders and laity. It is similar to the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the Roman Breviary] or the Rosary; and
  • departed earthly life in charity.
Valuable information: carmelitesofeldridge.org/scapular.html

carmelites.net/ I would think, an order of Carmelites would answer email on this matter.

"**The scapular is not a magical charm to protect us, an automatic guarantee of salvation, an excuse for not living up to the demands of the Christian life. It is: **

**A SIGN ** which
  • has been approved by the Church for over seven centuries
  • stands for the decision to follow Jesus like Mary: - open to God and to his will, - guided by faith, hope and love, - close to the needs of people, - praying at all times, - discovering God present in all that happens around us
  • points to a renewed hope of encountering God in eternal life with the help of Mary’s protection and intercession.
 
How about this?:
But now it is time to add something of even greater importance. We have
been saying more than once that the Vision of St. Simon Stock belongs to
the area of private revelation, and that the Church, strictly speaking,
does not have a divine promise of interpreting these rightly, or of
guaranteeing that the vision did indeed take place. But we said at the
outset that we have something that is a greater assurance. And we do have
it.
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We get this from a teaching of Pope Pius XI in “Explorata res” of Feb. 2,
1923: “. . nor would he incur eternal death whom the Most Blessed Virgin
assists, especially at his last hour. This opinion of the Doctors of the
Church, in harmony with the sentiments of the Christian people, and
supported by the experience or all times, depends especially on this
reason, the fact that the Sorrowful Virgin shared in the work of
redemption with Jesus Christ.”
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Let us note well: here we have crossed over from the area of merely
private revelations into that of public revelation. There the Church does
have teaching authority, and Pius XI has just told us that the protection
of the Blessed Virgin will protect one from eternal death. Further,
besides this teaching of Pius XI, we have very similar words from Pius XII and Benedict XV…
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THE BROWN SCAPULAR
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fix said:
Let us note well: here we have crossed over from the area of merely
private revelations into that of public revelation.
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That segment of the quote is disturbing.

How could any private revelation ‘cross over’ into public revelation?

And if it did why is this not required to believe in?
 
water said:
Pope JPII was wearing one; my grandma was wearing one. They both had a very happy death. Now, I am wearing one. There much more devotion and faith practice for one to follow than just wearing it.
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This is a great post and a true testament to the Scapular.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
That segment of the quote is disturbing.

How could any private revelation ‘cross over’ into public revelation?

And if it did why is this not required to believe in?
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You’ve done it again Maura, at times, I can read what you say and dislike it strongly… at other times, you really search out details. Nice insight.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
That segment of the quote is disturbing.

How could any private revelation ‘cross over’ into public revelation?

And if it did why is this not required to believe in?
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He is not saying the private revelation itself is crossing over. Here is more:
…Pius XI said flatly that he whom the Blessed Virgin assists at his last hour
will not suffer eternal death. In other words, he is promising that one
devoted to her will not, as a matter of fact, reject that grace of
perseverance. She, of course, whom Pope Benedict XV called “suppliant
omnipotence” will bring it about. That expression "suppliant omnipotence
"is fascinating. It means that everything that God Himself can do by His
own inherent power, she can obtain by her intercession. So she will obtain
for those devoted to her that they will not fail that all important final
grace.
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Again, we recall that this assurance comes not from private revelation,
over which the Church does not have the authority to guarantee it, but it
comes from the Pope speaking without the support of any private
revelation. Rather, he appeals to the fact that she, “shared in the work
of redemption” with Jesus.
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This fact of her sharing in the redemption is a tremendous truth, and yet
it is one about which so very many Catholics have never heard. Yet it is
one of the oldest teachings of the Church…
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If this was coming from a vision of Jesus I would be less uncomfortable but this other quote is not much help…

STILL, this is from private revelation (the scapular) and I see that fact getting blurred.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
If this was coming from a vision of Jesus I would be less uncomfortable but this other quote is not much help…

STILL, this is from private revelation (the scapular) and I see that fact getting blurred.
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The scapular devotion is a private revelation:

carmelites.ie/Periodicals/citw2004.1.htm
Pastoral Comments On The Brown Scapular Of Our Lady Of Mount Carmel By The North American Carmelite Provincials

Jude Peters, O.C.D.
Leo McCarthy, O.Carm.
Michael Driscoll, O.Carm.
Stephen Watson, O.C.D.
Bonaventure Saner, O.C.D.

Quoting only portion of this document:
…Private revelation can neither add to nor detract from the Church’s deposit of faith. Therefore, the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel echoes the promise of Divine Revelation: The one who holds out to the end is the one who will see salvation (Matthew 24:1 3), and Remain faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life (Revelation 2:10). The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel is a reminder to its wearers of the saving grace which Christ gained upon the cross for all: All you who have been baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves in him (Galatians 3:27). There is no salvation for anyone other than that won by Christ. The Sacraments mediate this saving grace to the faithful. The sacramentals, including the scapular, do not mediate this saving grace but prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:…/QUOTE]

Another interesting read is:

catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0011bt.asp
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Catholic Answers: “This Rock” magazine
Revelation: Public and Private
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Eilish_Maura said:
If this was coming from a vision of Jesus I would be less uncomfortable but this other quote is not much help…

STILL, this is from private revelation (the scapular) and I see that fact getting blurred.
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No blurring. You asked about verifying claims. I am showing you from a orthodox priest, and scholar, that the claims are true and taught by the Church.

More from that link:
Now we return to the words of Pope Pius XI. He said that one devoted to
her cannot be lost, and he gave the reason: the fact that she shared in
the work of redemption with her Divine Son.
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Now, with such a sharing, a sharing beyond our power to understand, no
wonder the Pope could say that she, suppliant omnipotence, can bring it
about that not only will God offer the grace of final perseverance, but
she will also so arrange things that as a matter of fact, those devoted to
her will not reject it. So they will accept it, so they cannot suffer
eternal death.
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And we recall this too: This is not now just a matter of a private
revelation, which the Church has not the authority to guarantee. This is a
matter of public revelation, a matter of seeing the implications in her
sharing in the redemption on Calvary itself, sharing at a cost beyond the
ability of any mere creature to understand. And not just one, but three
Popes have given us this assurance.
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Do you know where in Public Revelation Mary makes any of these claims?
 
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