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The teachings come to us from the Church. Where does She speak of her Assumption?
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What I am saying is we do not need her words for it to be part of the faith and really true. Public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle as far as I understand it.
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I am not arguing that private revelation must be accepted as equal to public revelation.
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water
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Why would you be concerned? if the Church allows us to believe in the private revelation, so be it. If one is to believe in any of the private revelation approved by the Church wholeheartedly, God bless them. It is a gift from God to believe what they believe. If what they believe brings them closer to God, then be at peace.
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Nickkname
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Catechism of the Catholic Church:
III. Christ Jesus – "Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation"25
God has said everything in his Word
65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:
In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behaviour but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27
There will be no further Revelation
66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
**67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment, as is the case in certain nonChristian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.**
III. Christ Jesus – "Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation"25
God has said everything in his Word
65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:
In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behaviour but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27
There will be no further Revelation
66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
**67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment, as is the case in certain nonChristian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.**
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If you read the link I posted it gives references to Vatican II and other magisterial documents.
If a private revelation said Jesus is God would we say that it is optional believe Jesus is God simply because it is a private revelation? The private revelation is not binding, but the reported teaching may still be very true and totally in concert with Church doctrine.
Regarding the private revelation about Mary helping souls at the hour of death we can say yes she will help those souls not because of the private revelation but because that particular revelation is in concert with what the Church teaches.
I see no contradiction between the private revelation in discussion and what the Church teaches about the intercession of Mary.
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CradleCath
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You have not “looked into” the feast day of the Assumption of Mary??? It is a holy day of obligation, yet “not very high on your list”? All you seem to be concerned about is whether or not this matter of DOGMA came to us through private revelation…or not. For one who seems so obsessed with “CHURCH TEACHING”, to not know the origin of the of the doctrine of the Assumption seems rather strange to me.
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Eilish_Maura
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I have not had to look into it because I accept that the Church has taught and that this is on the calendar as a holy day of obligation so it is not rate highly regarding things to question or discuss.
I do not believe it originated as private revelation because I accept that what the Church has taught on that. To believe that it did come to us, originally, as private revelation puts the Church’s teaching on such revelation in a questionable light at best.
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SongofShepherds
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The Assumption off the top of my head, is something that concerns the very Fathers who founded the faith. It is based on Tradition: I don’t see how one can think first, this sounds like “private revelation”, it sounds like Tradition so therefore the premise that then, this shows the Church in a questionable light is unsound … in my humble opinion.
We have relics of Saints, St. Thomas buried in India, some Saints bones really scattered, the Mother of God? Her relics are No where to be found. I do remember this directly from the “Fundamentalism and Catholicism” book by Keating.
Thus the Dormition of Mary and her Glorious Assumption is definitely to be believed.
The Church is also based on Tradition!
“By the authority of Our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own proper authority we pronounce, declare, and define as Divinely revealed dogma that Mary, Immaculate Mother of God ever Virgin after finishing up the course of her life on earth was taken up body and soul to heavenly glory.” Pius XII, 1950
But we have paintings of the Assumption long before this, so it was not a new idea.
“This belief of Catholics is founded on authentic teaching dating back certainly to the 6th century. This teaching is drawn from tradition, authority, Scriptural comparisons, and the sense of what was fitting for the Mother who gave to Christ his Body and Blood.” - Lawrence Lovasik, Divine Word Missionary
We have relics of Saints, St. Thomas buried in India, some Saints bones really scattered, the Mother of God? Her relics are No where to be found. I do remember this directly from the “Fundamentalism and Catholicism” book by Keating.
Thus the Dormition of Mary and her Glorious Assumption is definitely to be believed.
The Church is also based on Tradition!
“By the authority of Our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own proper authority we pronounce, declare, and define as Divinely revealed dogma that Mary, Immaculate Mother of God ever Virgin after finishing up the course of her life on earth was taken up body and soul to heavenly glory.” Pius XII, 1950
But we have paintings of the Assumption long before this, so it was not a new idea.
“This belief of Catholics is founded on authentic teaching dating back certainly to the 6th century. This teaching is drawn from tradition, authority, Scriptural comparisons, and the sense of what was fitting for the Mother who gave to Christ his Body and Blood.” - Lawrence Lovasik, Divine Word Missionary
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Nickkname
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The Church is based on Jesus Christ. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ. The Church awaits the second coming of Jesus Christ. And the Church exists because of Jesus Christ.
Do you see a pattern here?
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SongofShepherds
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Enlighten Us!
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Nickkname
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Jesus Christ is the beginning, the life, the center, and the end of the Church. So the Church was not founded by Fathers and is not based on Tradition or on the Bible or anything else.
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Eilish_Maura
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We have the skull of St Patrick
and the one from when he was a young man
:bounce:
:whacky:
:yup: :yup:
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Nickkname
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LOL
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SongofShepherds
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Did Jesus write the book of Luke? Did Jesus write to Colossians, Thesalonians, Romans? Did Peter take the Gospel overseas?
Was there not an Old Testament, and no Moses?
Did you read this:
“”**By the authority of Our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, **and by our own proper authority we pronounce, decalre, and define as Divinely revealed dogma that Mary, Immaculate Mother of God ever Virgin after finishing up the course of her life on earth was taken up body and soul to heavenly glory." Pius XII, 1950"
Where are you writing from? The Kingdom Hall? I have no time for your OFF TOPIC posts about semantics that smack of Protestantism and will not address this further unless your remark is on topic, not the act of someone who is not engaging in constructive conversation just taking a comment here and there.
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SongofShepherds
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Oh, really, then kindly provide sources for this for us to read!
We have the skull of St Patrick
and the one from when he was a young man
:bounce:
:whacky:
:yup: :yup:
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SongofShepherds
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Ridiculous, not even on the Bible?
As for Tradition, there is plenty about that, largely from St. Paul himself.
**“Take as a model of sound teaching what you have heard me say, in faith and love in Christ Jesus. Guard the rich deposit of faith with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us” ** 2nd Letter to Timothy 1:13-14
Nothing is better than Thessalonians 2: 15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter"
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