Think Before You Breed

[JimG]

Even the author of “What to Expect When No One’s Expecting,” has said that people without kids are happier. However, I’m not sure I believe this, at least not in the long run. In the long run people without kids are old and lonely, family gatherings are small or non-existent, brothers and sisters are absent. I’ve met mothers and dads of large families who seem really happy to have such a large and exuberant family.

Things have changed a lot since I was a boy. Those in my parents’ generation didn’t even think along the lines we are discussing here. My dad married my mom while working in a box factory making about 25 cents an hour. That’s been awhile ago. They didn’t wait till they were financially secure to get married. Heck, they were never financially secure until Social Security and Medicare came along.

They had two children within two years of marriage, and then had three more over a span of ten years. We were a one car family for as long as I can remember. With five kids, as soon as one reached driving age, he or she automatically became a family taxi driver.

They didn’t take the kids to scouts, sports, or other organized functions. For the most part, we all just played in the back yard, or in our rooms, or with the neighborhood kids, or walked all over town without benefit of cell phones, or explored the woods behind the house. As long as we showed up for dinner we were okay.

The median number of kids per family in my old neighborhood was probably about four. There were a few families with only two, and there were some with six, but four was about average. And we were the only Catholic family in the neighborhood.

The advent of widespread contraception did make a significant change in society as a whole. Marriage became not so much about family or about kids as about just “you and me.” It made a lot of changes, most of them not so good. I recommend the book “Adam and Eve After the Pill,” for an overview and statistical look at those changes.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Those in my parents’ generation didn’t even think along the lines we are discussing here. My dad married my mom while working in a box factory making about 25 cents an hour. That’s been awhile ago. They didn’t wait till they were financially secure to get married…

The advent of widespread contraception did make a significant change in society as a whole. Marriage became not so much about family or about kids as about just “you and me.” It made a lot of changes, most of them not so good. I recommend the book “Adam and Eve After the Pill,” for an overview and statistical look at those changes.

You make a number of interesting points but I want to focus here for a moment. Although contraceptives have been around for eons, the Romans used them as did the Chinese, the pill did make it much easier and more reliable. It is not an exageration to say that people today (and I am speaking broadly, not just faithful Catholics) have a choice that was unavailable to people earlier.

“Think before you breed” is obviously a call to think about not breeding. The alternatives are to not think or to think and come to a different conclusion, i.e. that having children is a good idea. And if having children is a good idea anyway, who needs contraceptives?

 

[JimG]

You make a number of interesting points but I want to focus here for a moment. Although contraceptives have been around for eons, the Romans used them as did the Chinese, the pill did make it much easier and more reliable. It is not an exageration to say that people today (and I am speaking broadly, not just faithful Catholics) have a choice that was unavailable to people earlier.

“Think before you breed” is obviously a call to think about not breeding. The alternatives are to not think or to think and come to a different conclusion, i.e. that having children is a good idea. And if having children is a good idea anyway, who needs contraceptives?

Indeed. Contraception breaks the link between sex and procreation. It breaks the link between marriage and children. It enables a whole variety of sexual ills, from adultery to cohabitation, leads to divorce and abortion; it leads to weakened families, and to same sex marriage.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

And good things are only good in moderation. Drinking water is good, but too much is bad for you. In a different way the same concept applies to children for many couples.

In effect you are arguing for people to give up control, something that has been sought after for a long long time.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Indeed. Contraception breaks the link between sex and procreation. It breaks the link between marriage and children. It enables a whole variety of sexual ills, from adultery to cohabitation, leads to divorce and abortion; it leads to weakened families, and to same sex marriage.

Slight thread drift, but I’ve seen this said but it still seems counterintuitive. I get that marriage and children can be separate, but how does it lead to abortion? I can see that improper use can lead to abortion, but the decrease in abortions also happened during an increase in more permanent forms of abc.

Plus we also have evidence that certain types of abc might actual reduce abortions.
vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/04/14224132-free-birth-control-cuts-abortion-rate-dramatically-study-finds?lite

 

[manualman]

And good things are only good in moderation. Drinking water is good, but too much is bad for you. In a different way the same concept applies to children for many couples.

In effect you are arguing for people to give up control, something that has been sought after for a long long time.

The ability to control is not actually the issue. In physical terms (taking the unreliable nature of human compliance out of the picture), NFP confers as much control as condoms or pills do to prevent pregnancies. But ABC does more than that. It makes babies irrelevant to sexual intimacy altogether, a totally separate issue. That’s a fundamental change in human nature that nobody wants to admit to because we have a distorted sense of who we are as human beings. We’ve come to imagine that our WILLs are all that matter. But that road leads to misery, narcissism and isolation. Understanding who we are as human beings and living according to the (pre-fall) nature that God gave us is the only path to joy (and one that isn’t even fully possible without Grace and forgiveness).

 

[josemandez]

Having children forces us to put the good of another above our own gain. The resistance to this idea has been the real drive behind the Culture of Death in our modern society. For catholic writings on the benefit of children, we don’t need anything new (though there are sources). We can rely on scripture, the Church Fathers and Sacred Tradition. The joys of parenthood are manifest especially in Proverbs. Why should we look for someone new to tell us what we already know?

This is all true. However, when dispensing advice to others, we should remember that Christ told us “Be as innocent as doves, but as wise as serpents.” Just because parenting causes many people to become less selfish does not mean that this will magically happen for everyone. I would argue that people who 1). Have a severe lack of empathy for others, especially children, 2). Have strong tendencies toward violence against children or a predilection toward sexual desires for children, or 3). Have an extreme lack of self-control that causes them to lash out against people in anger, should probably never have children. I have a friend who grew up in a “Catholic” home. His parents were quite devout, at least outwardly; however, they frequently and viciously beat both him and his twin sister. To parishioners and priests they seemed to be the perfect, devout Catholic family: They bore many children, and were apparently devoted to the Church and to good works. However, they were leading a double life that went totally against what the Church teaches about caring for one’s children. In fact, they are still seemingly unrepentant and deny ever having abused my friend and his sister, even when he confronts them as a 47- year-old man. Thankfully, my friend survived this ordeal with his faith in Christ intact, but not all are so fortunate.

I write the above not as a diatribe against the Catholic Church (which I respect, even if I don’t agree with all of the Catholic doctrines): It is simply a warning that giving all married couples blanket advice to have many children is not a good idea. There are some people, even married people, who have no business raising children, because there is a high likelihood (because of their personality traits, severe mental illness, etc) that they will traumatize their children. (My understanding of Church teaching on the subject is that there are many factors to be considered when a married couple is deciding how many children to have, but the Church stresses that the decision not to have children should not be made on purely selfish grounds. I would argue that a sociopath who decides not to have children is probably making the best decision possible, even if his motives are tinged with selfishness).

 

[Sarcelle]

This is all true. However, when dispensing advice to others, we should remember that Christ told us “Be as innocent as doves, but as wise as serpents.” Just because parenting causes many people to become less selfish does not mean that this will magically happen for everyone. I would argue that people who 1). Have a severe lack of empathy for others, especially children, 2). Have strong tendencies toward violence against children or a predilection toward sexual desires for children, or 3). Have an extreme lack of self-control that causes them to lash out against people in anger, should probably never have children. I have a friend who grew up in a “Catholic” home. His parents were quite devout, at least outwardly; however, they frequently and viciously beat both him and his twin sister. To parishioners and priests they seemed to be the perfect, devout Catholic family: They bore many children, and were apparently devoted to the Church and to good works. However, they were leading a double life that went totally against what the Church teaches about caring for one’s children. In fact, they are still seemingly unrepentant and deny ever having abused my friend and his sister, even when he confronts them as a 47- year-old man. Thankfully, my friend survived this ordeal with his faith in Christ intact, but not all are so fortunate.

I write the above not as a diatribe against the Catholic Church (which I respect, even if I don’t agree with all of the Catholic doctrines): It is simply a warning that giving all married couples blanket advice to have many children is not a good idea. There are some people, even married people, who have no business raising children, because there is a high likelihood (because of their personality traits, severe mental illness, etc) that they will traumatize their children. (My understanding of Church teaching on the subject is that there are many factors to be considered when a married couple is deciding how many children to have, but the Church stresses that the decision not to have children should not be made on purely selfish grounds. I would argue that a sociopath who decides not to have children is probably making the best decision possible, even if his motives are tinged with selfishness).

Well said.

 

[manualman]

This is all true. However, when dispensing advice to others, we should remember that Christ told us “Be as innocent as doves, but as wise as serpents.” Just because parenting causes many people to become less selfish does not mean that this will magically happen for everyone.

Indeed. I rarely argue with secularists, especially, about their choice to remain “child-free.” Until and unless they make OTHER huge changes in the lives and worldviews, they probably ARE making the best choice for mankind!

In the end, the argument isn’t about how many children to have, it’s about respecting human nature and leaving God’s design for human sexuality intact. If people do that, the healthier people will naturally gravitate towards larger families and the unhealthy won’t. Again, I wouldn’t put it in those terms in conversation with a “child-free” secularist…