Thinking about my Spouse a sin?

[Shiann]

Back to the original question,

Michael038:

Is thinking about making love to my wife a sin when we are apart?

I think this falls back on good ole ‘intent’.

Regarding Conjugal Chastity:

1. "Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy."28 Every person knows, by experience, that chastity requires rejecting certain thoughts, words and sinful actions, as Saint Paul was careful to clarify and point out (cf. Romans 1:18; 6:12-14; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Galatians 5:16-23; Ephesians 4:17-24; 5:3-13; Colossians 3:5-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-18; 1 Timothy 1:8-11; 4:12). To achieve this requires ability and an attitude of self-mastery which are signs of inner freedom, of responsibility towards oneself and others. At the same time, these signs bear witness to a faithful conscience. Such self-mastery involves both avoiding occasions which might provoke or encourage sin as well as knowing how to overcome one’s own natural instinctive impulses.

So, it would seem that if those thoughts are enjoyed in such a way that they reduce your wife to a mere object of your desire- rather than your wife- you have a problem.

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church says, sexuality "becomes personal and truly human when it is integrated into the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and mutual lifelong gift of a man and a woman."27 Insofar as it entails sincere self-giving, it is obvious that growth in love is helped by that discipline of the feelings, passions and emotions which leads us to self-mastery. One cannot give what one does not possess. If the person is not master of self – through the virtues and, in a concrete way, through chastity – he or she lacks that self-possession which makes self-giving possible.

Chastity is the spiritual power which frees love from selfishness and aggression. To the degree that a person weakens chastity, his or her love becomes more and more selfish, that is, satisfying a desire for pleasure and no longer self-giving.

The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality
Pontifical Council of the Family
November 21, 1995

newadvent.org/library/docs_cf9601.htm#IIC

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Sheesh, people!

God loves you. He wants you to experience happiness, and pleasure. He made you for that.

Lust is the **disordered ** desire for or **inordinate ** enjoyment of sexual pleasure. It IS possible to lust after your wife. Possible.

But that’s not what you said you were doing. You were thinking about sex. Since when is thinking about sex lust? Sex is a wonderful, blessed reality in marriage – and it doesn’t end at the bedroom door.

When my wife and I are apart, I want her to be able to think about our union with each other, our physical, emotional, and spiritual union. How is this thinking disordered or inordinate?

Some of us here have experienced some pretty powerful disordered and inordinate sexual behaviors, and – trust me – thinking about sex with your wife is hardly either. God bless you!

: Prodigal :

 

[Gene_C]

Hi all,

So the next logical question is, if sex is only for procreation and not for making love, does a married couple stopped “making love” when the woman is in menopause? After all, she can no longer bear children.

Since the first question was about lust, can I ask this question. Is the act of lust, purely in the mind and not involving violating the body, a sin that needs to be confessed to a priest, or does making an act of contrition and receiving the Eucharist sufficient for reconciliation?

Thanks for your wisodm,
Gene

 

[Shiann]

Gene C.:

Hi all,

So the next logical question is, if sex is only for procreation and not for making love, does a married couple stopped “making love” when the woman is in menopause? After all, she can no longer bear children.

First of all, why is that the next logical question? I’m not sure any Catholic here has said that sex was just for procreation, because it isn’t. The marital embrace is also unitive. Which is why a Catholic married couple does not stop enjoying the marital embrace beyond menopause.

Since the first question was about lust, can I ask this question. Is the act of lust, purely in the mind and not involving violating the body, a sin that needs to be confessed to a priest, or does making an act of contrition and receiving the Eucharist sufficient for reconciliation?

Lust is a sin and should be mentioned to an appropriate spiritual advisor to understand what needs to be done do to overcome it, and to make proper reconcilliation with God.

Intent is a large part of this sin, and only a discussion with a spiritual advisor can determine the root of the intent.

 

[Gene_C]

Hi Shi-ann,

I agree with you on the unitive aspect. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. One of the posters said that sex between married couples is only for procreation. So I was following that thought out to it’s “logical” conclusion. Sorry for the confusion.

Gene

 

[AquinasXVI]

Michael:

Theology of the Body, Naked Without Shame by Christopher West. I cannot recommend this enough.

Here’s a tidbit:

The marital embrace when done in charity (meaning that we mutually want the pleasure of the other) reflects the dynamic relationship of the Holy Trinity. This act is the ultimate bodily sign of the unity of the triune God. That, when done in true charity becomes a virtue. We earn graces for this embrace for we are living signs of God’s nature. Also, because it is done with love it means that we are open to the gift of Life.

On the other hand, if done for self gratification it can easily slide down to lust.

St. Thomas also touched on this.

in XT

 

[Lorrie]

KingdomHallsEnd:

I’m not so sure that the Church teaches married couples to “make love.” She teaches them to reproduce and procreate. But I don’t think She teaches them to make love for solely pleasure.

And that’s sad.

 

[Shiann]

Gene C.:

Hi Shi-ann,

I agree with you on the unitive aspect. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. One of the posters said that sex between married couples is only for procreation. So I was following that thought out to it’s “logical” conclusion. Sorry for the confusion.

Gene

Ah!

So sorry

 

[cynic]

I thought lust was a pornographic objectification of someone? Not a euphemism for all sexual thoughts.

If those fantasies involve pleasing your wife then what’s wrong with them?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

cynic:

If those fantasies involve pleasing your wife then whats wrong with them?

Maybe nothing, maybe everything.

As much as we’d like all moral dilemas to be solved with a quick easy answer, they can’t be. There are too many variables.

One man fantasizing about pleasing his wife may not be sinning at all. Another may be. It all comes down to intent, motive, and consequences.

Malia

 

[cynic]

Feanaro's Wife:

One man fantasizing about pleasing his wife may not be sinning at all. Another may be. It all comes down to intent, motive, and consequences.

Malia

The motive is to take pleasure in pleasing the wife. Not objecitify her, but fantasies always invlove an element of pleasure otherwise nobody would have them. If you think there is something wrong with that then just be honest and say so.

 

[puzzleannie]

no, but discussing your intimate relations with your wife and thoughts of her with strangers could indeed be sinful.

 

[Katie1723]

KingdomHallsEnd:

Can you give me some Church documents that prove this. I thought that marriage was for the begetting and education of children.

A wee bit jealous are you?
~ Kathy ~

 

[CuriousInIL]

puzzleannie:

no, but discussing your intimate relations with your wife and thoughts of her with strangers could indeed be sinful.

How so? What is the sin? Is there a difference between a discussion here where a person and their spouse is anonymous and a discussion with a friend?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

cynic:

The motive is to take pleasure in pleasing the wife. Not objecitify her, but fantasies always invlove an element of pleasure otherwise nobody would have them. If you think there is something wrong with that then just be honest and say so.

But you don’t know what every man’s motives are. Some may indeed be objectifying her or take more pleasure in the fantasy that in the actual act( a big problem).

Personally, I love to know that my husband thinks about me. Sometimes he thinks about how I make him laugh, other times he thinks about something he loves about me, and he even thinks about sex !

I don’t think there is anything wrong with a man or woman thinking about sex with their spouses…just wanted to point out that, like everything else it seems, it can be good or bad.

Malia

 

[josea]

Prodigal_Son:

Sheesh, people!

God loves you. He wants you to experience happiness, and pleasure. He made you for that.

Lust is the **disordered **desire for or **inordinate **enjoyment of sexual pleasure. It IS possible to lust after your wife. Possible.

But that’s not what you said you were doing. You were thinking about sex. Since when is thinking about sex lust? Sex is a wonderful, blessed reality in marriage – and it doesn’t end at the bedroom door.

When my wife and I are apart, I want her to be able to think about our union with each other, our physical, emotional, and spiritual union. How is this thinking disordered or inordinate?

Some of us here have experienced some pretty powerful disordered and inordinate sexual behaviors, and – trust me – thinking about sex with your wife is hardly either. God bless you!

: Prodigal :

I think Prodigal_son put it right!

What I can not understand is why we make a natural thing so complicated. If we are told to be faithful to our spouses we can not be told not to think about them. And thinking about them is sometimes also thinking about the most normal and natural act in which we are engaged sometimes and give ourselves plenty to each other.

Why should we reject the thoughts about something that we normally do, we enjoyed, it is right and we do with all blessings of God and the Church?

A completely different think is to use those thoughts to seek personal pleasure by for instance masturbation, I agree.

Those “thoughts” are part of the whole when we think about our spouses and about ourselves and I think they help to enrich our loving life, I do not see the problem. A spouse should be very happy knowing that her husband thinks about her ALSO in that way!

The ninth commandment forbids thinking “lustfully” about our neighbor’s wife and not about our own. This is adultery because we would like to have a relationship with our neighbor’s wife and thinking about it is like having consented already in our hearts. Doing the same about our spouses is actually just the opposite.

Jose

 

[migurl]

If a person starts tp think about their spouse in a sexual way only to bring pleasure to themselves, then I think it is wrong. But If a spouse is remembering the relations with their spouse or is trying to pln a romantic evening, then I think it is ok. I mean, sometimes I will think about kissing my fiance and how relaxed I feel and I will be really missing him and wishing I could see him, but I smile and it brings me memories of places and times we kissed (first kiss, when he proposed etc) and its ok. But there are times when I start thinking about it in a more passionate way and since those thoughts cannot lead to sex (I’m not married obviuosly) I have to stop them before they become sinful. But if I were married, I imagine that I could allow those thoughts to continue for a bit so that I could get into “the mood”. There was another thread that talked about sex in marriage when one spouse wanted to and the other didn’t, so I think that if my thoughts were to lead to me wanting to and ended with my husband and I making love, I think it should be fine as long as i’m not just sitting around fantasizing all day, I do have other things to do!

 

[LovedOne]

Thinking of your spouse during the day - even “wanting” him or her is one of the beautiful blessings of being married!
Thinking back on maybe on your time together the night before or anticipating being together later that day or night - is part of married life!
It is “disordered lust” that is sinful.
Lust would be desiring your spouse for physical pleasure only.
To desire your spouse physically AND to be united, close and intimate is exactly the ordered way God created it.

 

[Golf_Nut]

KingdomHallsEnd:

Can you give me some Church documents that prove this. I thought that marriage was for the begetting and education of children.

Marriage is more than just that. Wow, you clearly are not married.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Golf_Nut:

Marriage is more than just that. Wow, you clearly are not married.

My wife would say marriage is for the begetting and education of children, and for the domesticization of the husband.

But I guarantee you, we’re very businesslike in bed. (Although, perhaps our neigbors wouldn’t agree with that statement). Wouldn’t want to let those passions get in the way of poppin’ out critters!