Thinking of becoming Catholic but conflicted

[LatinByzCath]

Dear OP,

I’ve struggled with some of the same issues, and as others have pointed out, all of us struggle with things that are hard to make sense of, if we really think about them.

I came to the conclusion that I could easily talk myself into atheism, or agnosticism. But then I am making an idol of my mind and reasoning. I could easily take Jesus Christ as my Lord but tear away all of the things about Him, His Church and the Scriptures that I don’t like. Then I’d be making God up in my head, and eventually, again, I’d be worshipping my own mind.

I decided to accept the fact that I’ll never understand the God that my heart tells me is there, but I have to accept the things that I do not understand as truth, and let them help make me a better Christian.

I don’t agree with many of the author’s stances, but this quote pretty much sums it up for me…

“I need a God who is bigger and more nimble and mysterious than what I could understand and contrive. Otherwise it can feel like I am worshipping nothing more than my ability to understand the Divine.”

-Nadia Bolz-Weber

 

[JasmineTea]

Dear OP,

I’ve struggled with some of the same issues, and as others have pointed out, all of us struggle with things that are hard to make sense of, if we really think about them.

I came to the conclusion that I could easily talk myself into atheism, or agnosticism. But then I am making an idol of my mind and reasoning. I could easily take Jesus Christ as my Lord but tear away all of the things about Him, His Church and the Scriptures that I don’t like. Then I’d be making God up in my head, and eventually, again, I’d be worshipping my own mind.

I decided to accept the fact that I’ll never understand the God that my heart tells me is there, but I have to accept the things that I do not understand as truth, and let them help make me a better Christian.

I don’t agree with many of the author’s stances, but this quote pretty much sums it up for me…

“I need a God who is bigger and more nimble and mysterious than what I could understand and contrive. Otherwise it can feel like I am worshipping nothing more than my ability to understand the Divine.”

-Nadia Bolz-Weber

Yeah. Sometimes it is very easy to believe it’s all just made up. Humanity has always invented a God to satisfy our need to feel bad people are inevitably punished, that our loved ones aren’t really “gone” when they die, that we won’t simply cease to exist one day, that sufferings in this life mean rewards in the next, that there is a point to being a good person, and to explain why bad things happen. It’s all very convenient when you think about it too much. I just can’t stand the idea of subscribing to a faith that I can’t let myself think about too much or else it would be too ridiculous to believe.

 

[LatinByzCath]

Yeah. Sometimes it is very easy to believe it’s all just made up. Humanity has always invented a God to satisfy our need to feel bad people are inevitably punished, that our loved ones aren’t really “gone” when they die, that we won’t simply cease to exist one day, that sufferings in this life mean rewards in the next, that there is a point to being a good person, and to explain why bad things happen. It’s all very convenient when you think about it too much. I just can’t stand the idea of subscribing to a faith that I can’t let myself think about too much or else it would be too ridiculous to believe.

I don’t mean to give the impression that Catholicism is anti intellectual. You just have to have a little drop of faith, and then the intellectual debates and searching for Truth becomes much more fun. You just have to be willing to think outside your box.

 

[Joe_5859]

For me, it has always been a little difficult to understand the problems people have with the Church’s teaching on contraception. Even when I went through my period where I doubted the Church, the Bible, and even Jesus, I always believed that artificial contraception was wrong because it always struck me as unnatural.

As others have said, you bring up a lot of different issues, each of which could be a thread unto itself. I just wanted to touch on the idea of the Sunday “obligation”. For some reason, that word has become a dirty word in our culture but it doesn’t need to be. I have obligations to my wife and to my children. That doesn’t mean I do not love them or that my love is forced and inauthentic. Love involves being obligated towards the other. The Church makes Sunday Mass an obligation because She wants us to realize how important it is to stay connected to the Lord.

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

It doesn’t matter what we think? We are supposed to just go along with something that screams “wrong” or “waste of time?” Really is that what the Catholic church teaches??

we are supposed to follow an informed conscience guided by the Spirit. Our conscience can be defective however at times because of several times. As far as “it does not matter what we think” I am referring to the fact it is the church not us that decides matters of law, just as it was in the Bible, and we can either accept it or reject it, but at not point can we make a faith for ourselves where we set ourselves us as judges.

I don’t think it’s okay to say “i want all the sex and none of the babies” but is it usually that black and white?

Usually it is that black and white.

What about a couple with 5 kids whose doctor says no more?

Depends why he said no more, if its something deadly it would foolish to EVER have sex again.

I don’t know, it seems like the Church has an answer for everything but its a real iffy and vague answer. Usually it seems like they just want to control people and place barriers between people and Jesus.

Telling them recreational sex is a barrier? When people sin they set up their own barrier. How is using contraceptives much different than why homosexuals have sex? Many of the same arguments apply (except about babies)

I would go to mass if I didn’t feel like such a “failure” according to church definitions. But I don’t even bother since I doubt I will ever be able to believe what the church teaches not about the divinity of Christ and the nature of god, but about all the miserable trappings that the church imposes on its people

Its all about your perspective and things you’ve experienced, if you’ve been used to being told x is okay, y is not a sin, z is not required elsewhere, then are told by another the opposite is all true, then it would sound like a trap. The Bible itself has lots of laws some people found burdensome, whereas others said they were not burdensome at all.

 

[pensmama87]

For me, it has always been a little difficult to understand the problems people have with the Church’s teaching on contraception. Even when I went through my period where I doubted the Church, the Bible, and even Jesus, I always believed that artificial contraception was wrong because it always struck me as unnatural.

As others have said, you bring up a lot of different issues, each of which could be a thread unto itself. I just wanted to touch on the idea of the Sunday “obligation”. For some reason, that word has become a dirty word in our culture but it doesn’t need to be. I have obligations to my wife and to my children. That doesn’t mean I do not love them or that my love is forced and inauthentic. Love involves being obligated towards the other. The Church makes Sunday Mass an obligation because She wants us to realize how important it is to stay connected to the Lord.

(to the whole post, but I really identify with the bolded!)

The Church’s teaching on contraception was actually what led me to embrace the rest of Church teaching. I was a dedicated contraception user (a few different methods) and it seriously messed up my health and my life. I finally looked up alternatives, and found “fertility awareness method,” which is the same thing as NFP, but secular. I identified as feminist at the time, and I was struck by the message that my body was fine the way it was - I didn’t need to go around sterilizing myself, but I could learn how my own body worked! It felt empowering. So I went from thinking “Ugh, silly old men who run the Church and don’t know anything about women,” to “Hm, maybe they’re really on to something!” Then the rest fell into place.

I don’t have much to add besides my first post on the thread, but I do want to remind the OP how important it is that if you decide to reject Catholicism, that you are actually rejecting what it teaches, not your perception of what it teaches (you’ve made a few errors in this thread and I think other posters have been good at pointing out the flaws in your thinking. They’re widely believed, but still flaws.) I would also pray for God to lead you where He wants to lead you, rather than where you think you ought to go. It’s not turning off your brain, but it is realizing that we are limited and human (and susceptible to temptation), but God is not.

Blessing and best wishes to you.

 

[JasmineTea]

Well I guess that is always the trump card when things seem wrong or make no sense to our rational minds: we’re not God and can never fully understand him. So, we have to just accept whatever because we “can’t ever understand.” Isn’t that convenient for the Church to be able to cover all their bases with that statement, LOL! “This is really just a way for us to control women, but we will make the most extraordinary case for it and then tell people that when they see through the holes, it’s just because they don’t understand God and never will!”

I don’t know. There’s a lot I like about the church but lots that simply seems like adding pain and hassle to your life. I’m happy to go to mass but I know that I WILL limit my family size using contraception. It’s not that I’m not willing to abstain from sex a few days a month, it’s that I don’t think NFP works AT ALL. When I am done having kids, I want to feel confident that I am really done. I’m not going to destroy my marriage by completely cutting off sex, and I’m not going to follow some convoluted plan that is, essentially, permissible because it’s not very effective, only to meet the same goal: not having an unwanted pregnancy.

I am also never going to go tell some creeper man about my “sins.” I can confess to God ALL on my own. I’ve been to confession and just felt it was invasive, uncomfortable, paternalistic, and inappropriate. NO THANKS.

I guess the truth is that the Catholic church is just probably not for me. I hope and pray that someday it takes a good hard look at these obsessions it has with people’s sex lives and it’s legalistic obsession with the concept of “sin” and turns more toward works of charity, getting members to TRULY know and love Christ and their Bible, and building a better world for our kids.

 

[catybug]

The thing is, allot of this does make sense to allot of rational minds. i’m pretty sure most of the people who posted here did question allot of these things at some point or another. I know I did. I was wrong I questioned everything. I didn’t up and leave though, instead I held out untill I found an answer. As for contraception and sex, I found allot of those answers in Theology of the Body.

I used to see confession as you do. But I did more reading up about it, and tried to understand. I also went more often, and found the graces of it. It is biblical. Jesus said to his disciples “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” through apostolic succesion, this goes to the priests we have now. Here’s a good CA blog about it catholic.com/tracts/confession

And The Echarist is want spurned all this on. I sat in Eucharistic adoration and had a very powerful moment when I finally understood what I was told my wholel ife. It was the True Pressence. This is also Biblical. From John 6
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
48
I am the bread of life.
49
Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;z
50
this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.
51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”a
52
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”
53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.b
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
59
These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Jesus says I am the Bread of Life. multiple times.The word Jesus uses for eat in this passage is “trogos” which means to gnaw, or gnash, or chew. So Jesus is being very literal when he says he is the bread of life. He wasn’t being symbolic, or saying a parable. if he was, it wouldn’t have been so hard for people to accept. Everyone left though, because it was hard to accept.

The church is obsessed with peoples sex lives, and the Church is very strong on “sin” It has to be, because the church is in the business of saving souls, not making people /feel/ good. The Church is the largest charitable organazation in the world. Because of the True Presence in the Eucharist, you can’t get any closer to Christ than through his Church. No one said Christianity was easy, not even Jesus.

. I feel as if you aren’t even listening to some of the answers provided here. No one here is saying throw away your intellect. None of us have. But rather they are saying have the humility to realize you don’t know all the answers, and to think about them, reflect on them, and be open to the possibility you just /might/ be wrong. The rules on contraception are not about controlling women. Contraception is essentially saying our bodies are wrong and bad and should be pumped full of hormones to change. Like one of the above posters said, its liberating to think that we don’t have to, there is nothing wrong with us. There is a natural method that works ( and statistic says it does by the way, even if you ignore them) Confession is a way to receive counsel, and that he Eucharist is the True Presence.

From what I see though, you aren’t ready to join the Church, because you are against many of the basic stances of the Church, and /you/ are convinced you wont change. you aren’t conflicted at all, you just think you know better. I’d say continue going to mass though, pray in front of the blessed sacrament. Try to Keep an open mind, and open heart. Praying for you.

 

[Galbin]

I don’t know. There’s a lot I like about the church but lots that simply seems like adding pain and hassle to your life. I’m happy to go to mass but I know that I WILL limit my family size using contraception. It’s not that I’m not willing to abstain from sex a few days a month, it’s that I don’t think NFP works AT ALL. When I am done having kids, I want to feel confident that I am really done. I’m not going to destroy my marriage by completely cutting off sex, and I’m not going to follow some convoluted plan that is, essentially, permissible because it’s not very effective, only to meet the same goal: not having an unwanted pregnancy.

I am also never going to go tell some creeper man about my “sins.” I can confess to God ALL on my own. I’ve been to confession and just felt it was invasive, uncomfortable, paternalistic, and inappropriate. NO THANKS. .

I disagree with many of the points you have raised. However, I do see your point about contraception. Why do you think NFP doesn’t work “at all”? NFP can be very very effective, just as effective as the BCP, in fact. However, I know that when secular women cannot have babies for health reasons (i.e. the woman may die!), they are told to either add a barrier to the BCP or use a more effective form of contraception. So the BCP is not perfect and neither is NFP. I do feel the church should bend on this. I have read of certain members here whose priests told them it wouldn’t be a sin in their case, that to go without contraception and leave their children motherless would be a greater sin. However, whenever people share such stories here, eggs and tomatoes are thrown.

As for confession, I too don’t get it. I also strongly dislike the way they have removed the boxes. Confession is unpleasant enough without having to see the priest. I find it mortifying, as do most Catholics I know in real life. However, what do you mean when you say, “some creeper man”?

I guess the truth is that the Catholic church is just probably not for me. I hope and pray that someday it takes a good hard look at these obsessions it has with people’s sex lives and it’s legalistic obsession with the concept of “sin” and turns more toward works of charity, getting members to TRULY know and love Christ and their Bible, and building a better world for our kids.

I think it will. I see more talk of sin and sexual issues on this board than I ever do in real life when I go to mass every single week.

 

[Richard_White]

In regard to your feelings on contraception, here is a passage from Genesis:

“Then Judah said to Onan, ‘United with your brother’s widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thud preserve your brother’s line.’ Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so whenever he had relations with his brother’s widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the LORD, and the LORD took his life too” (Gn 38:8-10).

This shows the immorallity of contraception before God, especially because we, as inferior human beings, have absolutely no right to say when God should bless us with a child or not.

May God bless you and lead you into the Truth of the Catholic Church!

 

[LatinByzCath]

OP,

If you want to be Catholic, you’ll need to drop the pride. Christianity is about submitting our own comforts and hanging upon the cross with Christ. It’s a struggle, and it’s meant to be. You can’t pick up your cross and carry it if you’ve chiseled that cross down so much by implementing your own will and casting off what you don’t like that it’s no longer a cross.

I know some will disagree with me, but right now, the Catholic Church probably isn’t for you. You might be happier in a more liberal Church where anything goes, like with the Episcopalians.

The Catholic Church, which is literally the same body founded by and upon the Apostles, has existed for thousands of years. It’s not going to change just because you’re uncomfortable.

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

I am also never going to go tell some creeper man about my “sins.” I can confess to God ALL on my own. I’ve been to confession and just felt it was invasive, uncomfortable, paternalistic, and inappropriate. NO THANKS.

In the old days when it was ONLY Catholics, Judaizers and gnostics claiming Christianity–no Protestants (be they Baptist or non denominational etc) or their derivatives, you had to make a PUBLIC confession of sins before the whole Church–this drove some people away, but the church eventually adopted a much more discrete way of confession. The point is in the early Church either you did the PUBLIC confession–or you were not Christian at all, there was no option of some form of way water down Christianity that exists with Protestantism.

“Such are the words and deeds by which, in our own district of the Rhone, they have deluded many women, who have their consciences seared as with a hot iron. Some of them, indeed, make a public confession of their sins; but others of them are ashamed to do this, and in a tacit kind of way, despairing of [attaining to] the life of God, have, some of them, apostatized altogether; while others hesitate between the two courses, and incur that which is implied in the proverb, ‘neither without nor within;’ possessing this as the fruit from the seed of the children of knowledge.”–Irenaeus.Against Heresies,1:13(A.D.180),in ANF,I:336

In confession you are only supposed to name the sin and the number of times, however some people give details which are not necessarily and which priests do not want, the only time a detail might be needed is if the sin is way to vague.

“invasive, uncomfortable, paternalistic, and inappropriate” you would have major issues with the bible itself. Jesus directly told people about their sins–like the woman at the well. The WHOLE bible is extremely paternalistic. Then we can look at some of the new testament verses about how to deal with sinners–confront him, if that doesn’t work get 2 people, if that doesn’t work get more people, if that doesn’t work get the church, if that doesn’t work–shun him (Matthew 18, Titus 3:10), talk about “invasive, uncomfortable, paternalistic, and inappropriate”!!!

This should not really matter since the priest is sworn to secrecy anyway.

 

[paulrxp]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Catholicism is not for you. I think most Catholics, if they are honest, will admit to themselves that they doubt some of what the Church teaches. You, however, have expressed disbelief in some of the basic stuff that makes one Catholic. Nothing wrong with that if you’ve given the subject some serious thought and honestly came to that conclusion. If it really doesn’t ring true to you, then move on and find something that does.

.

This is good advice. I often share my Catholic faith with my non-Catholic friends. A few have been interested in going to find out more at my parish. I normally would not dissuade anyone from going, it really shouldn’t be up to me, but for the person seeking Christ through the Catholic Church

Catholicism demands a lot from you. The Church is both Mother and teacher. Here on Earth to guide you to the Lord and Father, through the Holy Spirit. This must be at the heart of why you’d want to be a Catholic, to be One and united with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, on Earth and after death in Heaven.

Many of your questions can be answered. In fact no other faith will answer them better than Catholicism. Whether it’s biblical, historical, or by way of Sacred Tradition. The Catholic Church is well grounded in revealing the Truth of the Lords teachings.

You must understand a very important difference between Catholicism and other Christian faiths. Catholics are united universally in our beliefs. Communion is at the heart of what makes us the Body of Christ on Earth. One Church as the Lord intended it to be. Even with our diversity, and differences of opinions on certain disciplines. A Catholic will sacrifice personal desires to show obedience to the will of God and not the self. The Blessed Virgin Mary is our example, as well as all the Saints.

It would not be beneficial to become Catholic if you rejected most if not all of Her teachings. Not understanding a teaching is different than understanding it, and still rejecting it due to personal reasoning, bias and doubts.

Still, I would not rush into becoming Catholic if this is your disposition. I would really pray and try to understand what Catholicism is really about . It’s very very deep, that I can assure, you. There is no other Faith that is as sound in Truth. No better in teaching children how to lead and live a good life.

 

[kittyplant]

hmm…
i feel bad because you are missing out. the catholic church is the true church and her teachings are consistent and beautiful. you are where you are though and maybe if you keep going to some protestant church God’s grace will lead you to the truth about these things youre not getting ( ofcourse always pray for God to lead you to wisdom and understanding and the truth - knock and door will be opened) but if you just dont get it, you can still learn and grow with protestants.

 

[adv]

If you really are wanting to consider Catholicism you really have to be open to why the church teaches what it teaches. All the questions you have asked in your initial post can be answered and the answers are really very good and reasonable and deep. It doesn’t really seem like you are open to it or wanting to take the time to learn it. You may not understand why but its something that takes time and I can say for myself I have learned the why’s to all these questions. It takes prayer and maturity and trusting God . You have to trust and seek the answers. When you start going to other denominations you are going to get different answers from different denominations and then you will have to ask yourself… what is really the truth? Watch the program coming “The Journey Home” on EWTN you can google it. It may enlighten you. People who asked the same questions you are and found the truth in the Catholic Church.

 

[Joe_5859]

Well I guess that is always the trump card when things seem wrong or make no sense to our rational minds: we’re not God and can never fully understand him. So, we have to just accept whatever because we “can’t ever understand.” Isn’t that convenient for the Church to be able to cover all their bases with that statement, LOL! “This is really just a way for us to control women, but we will make the most extraordinary case for it and then tell people that when they see through the holes, it’s just because they don’t understand God and never will!”

I don’t know. There’s a lot I like about the church but lots that simply seems like adding pain and hassle to your life. I’m happy to go to mass but I know that I WILL limit my family size using contraception. It’s not that I’m not willing to abstain from sex a few days a month, it’s that I don’t think NFP works AT ALL. When I am done having kids, I want to feel confident that I am really done. I’m not going to destroy my marriage by completely cutting off sex, and I’m not going to follow some convoluted plan that is, essentially, permissible because it’s not very effective, only to meet the same goal: not having an unwanted pregnancy.

I am also never going to go tell some creeper man about my “sins.” I can confess to God ALL on my own. I’ve been to confession and just felt it was invasive, uncomfortable, paternalistic, and inappropriate. NO THANKS.

I guess the truth is that the Catholic church is just probably not for me. I hope and pray that someday it takes a good hard look at these obsessions it has with people’s sex lives and it’s legalistic obsession with the concept of “sin” and turns more toward works of charity, getting members to TRULY know and love Christ and their Bible, and building a better world for our kids.

Acknowledging that the infinite God is not fully comprehensible to our finite minds is not a “trump card” used to get out of a tough spot in an intellectual debate. That’s just reality. But that doesn’t make the Catholic faith unreasonable. It is eminently reasonable. I have never had a question (on faith and morals) that I haven’t found a reasonable Catholic answer to.

I am somewhat puzzled that people think the Church is obsessed with our sex lives. The Church has moral teachings with regards to sex. It would be nonsensical if the Church did not have such guidance on something so fundamental to the human experience. But it’s not as though the Church sends priests to all our homes to quiz us on what we are doing. The Church proposes the truth. Then we can choose to accept or reject it. The Church has no power of coercion. And statistics show just how many Catholics do reject that teaching. If the Church had the magic ability to coerce all Catholics to fall in line, She is doing a very bad job of exercising that ability.

I will pray for you as you continue on your spiritual journey. I would simply encourage you to be open to what the Church teaches and listening to reasoned explanations. Note, not every random Catholic on the internet (like me ) is proficient at explaining these things. Sometimes, we internet Catholics do resort to using things as “trump cards” because we don’t understand how to articulate the teaching. So do not assume that no answer exists simply because you have managed to stump a few Catholics on the street. Seek out answers from Catholics who have given these issues a lot of thought. That may involve more reading of books and less reading of forums.

 

[BettyBoop416]

But that doesn’t make the Catholic faith unreasonable. It is eminently reasonable. I have never had a question (on faith and morals) that I haven’t found a reasonable Catholic answer to.

And this, I believe, is a major stumbling block for non-believers who are considering Catholicism. You can only respond to the difficult questions with “Catholic” answers, which are often unsatisfying and may even seem silly to the currently non-believing inquirer. For example, it the first post of this thread, the OP said:

I don’t think there is any proof that the host is changed to the actual body of Christ. I’m not saying I am totally against the idea, I’m just not sure that is for real. Seems very magical and superstitious to me. I am not sure how a grown adult is able to convince him or herself that this is a real thing.

Can you answer this in a reasonable way that does not begin with the assumption that it’s true simply because the Church teaches that it’s true?

 

[MarkInOregon]

Just I mean, when I was in the nondenominational church it was not a “mortal sin” to miss Sunday service once in a while. Now it’s like, when I decide not to go one Sunday, why even bother if I have to go to confession? I’m not really very sorry if I miss once in a while, so why go to confession?

Then yes, birth control. What if I get married and decide to use it after careful consideration? Might as well not go to church anymore since apparently I’m going to hell anyway. Might as well forget the whole thing.

I just feel like there are so many arbitrary hoops to jump through that make me really dislike going to mass and keep me from just being real with God.

My fiancé says this is why Catholic church is filled with old people. They can live by the mandates of the church because they aren’t worried about getting pregnant AGAIN, don’t have any reason to go somewhere else on the weekends, and aren’t doing much to have to confess. And our nondenominational church was filled with young singles and families with kids.

I am one of 6 kids and let me tell you, I will NEVER do that to my family. In my experience, most people from huge families don’t want one of their own. I love all my siblings but my parents were so maxed out. So tired and we never had the means to do anything that our peers were doing. I was always embarrassed to have friends over because the house was always messy from little kids, someone was always crying. Kids got forgotten because there were just too many to meet all their needs. You could say that the benefits outweighed the drawbacks (yes, my siblings and I had fun, but guess what? I barely talk to three of them these days) but the truth is that I lived a family of 8 and I know for sure that I don’t want to raise my kids that way. It’s just too much for any mother to handle well. So if my fiancé and I want to stop at three kids, I don’t need a church breathing down my neck telling me to either cut off my husband or keep pumping out more kids to prove a point.

Our Catholic Church has lots of large young families. Your experience with large families is not my experience and I would never have thought of depriving my children of siblings–of giving them everything but brothers and sisters. My fondest memories are of very large family gatherings with extended family at my grandmothers tiny house. For my money todays culture is far too concerned with stuff and with doing what they want to do without regard for others.

You are viewing the Church wrong. The Church presents you with the message of Christ and with the best way to live–a way that will give you joy and peace even in lifes struggles. You’r viewing it as a list of don’ts, as a list of rules keeping you from having fun and doing what you want to do–from what you think will make you happy. I tried it the worlds way–we went to Church but we didn’t always fully attempt to follow Church teaching (heck in some area’s I don’t think we even thought about there being a teaching)–no greater joy there. One day we signed up for Bible study and over the next few years as we studied more–our faith grew, we came to understand Church teaching–and I have yet to find a teaching that I truly looked into and studied where I could justify my position over the Churches–no matter how much I wanted to. It has been a growth process, one that continues today and will continue for life, but there is truth and wisdom in what the Church teaches, not to mention great peace. Much more peace and comfort–than when we tried to do it our way listening to the world, but that is something you will have to learn on your own. It is something you can only learn by regularly attending Mass, by continual study and openness to Gods word. I know there are things I had read many times in the Bible and then one day you read it and you wonder how you had missed it all those years–sometimes we just are not ready to hear something. The Church is not a list of don’ts but it is the minister of Gods mercy and love, it is the teacher of Christs better way to live. The more your relationship with and your love for Christ grows–the more you will want to live as he desires for you to live–what you will discover is that the teaching of the Church are not so much a list of don’ts keeping you from something but rather are a way to live happily in peace no matter what the world throws at you–it is a freeing message which is quite opposed to the worlds enslaving message.

I pray that you will attend Mass and study–I recommended two resources in an earlier post and I hope you will invest the time in them. I would also recommend Pope Francis most recent encyclical. If you start the journey I think you will find it rewarding and you may be surprised where you end up. I know I was. I think when we are young in our faith we are often like teenagers rebelling against their parents because they think they know it all or know better. It is only with time, experience and study that we realize we were not as smart as we thought we were and that our parents were not quite as dumb as we thought.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

Well I guess that is always the trump card when things seem wrong or make no sense to our rational minds: we’re not God and can never fully understand him. So, we have to just accept whatever because we “can’t ever understand.” Isn’t that convenient for the Church to be able to cover all their bases with that statement, LOL! “This is really just a way for us to control women, but we will make the most extraordinary case for it and then tell people that when they see through the holes, it’s just because they don’t understand God and never will!”

I don’t know. There’s a lot I like about the church but lots that simply seems like adding pain and hassle to your life. I’m happy to go to mass but I know that I WILL limit my family size using contraception. It’s not that I’m not willing to abstain from sex a few days a month, it’s that I don’t think NFP works AT ALL. When I am done having kids, I want to feel confident that I am really done. I’m not going to destroy my marriage by completely cutting off sex, and I’m not going to follow some convoluted plan that is, essentially, permissible because it’s not very effective, only to meet the same goal: not having an unwanted pregnancy.

I am also never going to go tell some creeper man about my “sins.” I can confess to God ALL on my own. I’ve been to confession and just felt it was invasive, uncomfortable, paternalistic, and inappropriate. NO THANKS.

I guess the truth is that the Catholic church is just probably not for me. I hope and pray that someday it takes a good hard look at these obsessions it has with people’s sex lives and it’s legalistic obsession with the concept of “sin” and turns more toward works of charity, getting members to TRULY know and love Christ and their Bible, and building a better world for our kids.

It is not the Church that is obsessed with peoples sex lives. The Church has said for 2000+ years how we are supposed to live. It is the world that is obsessed with sex. It is the world that attacks the Church for her teaching–seeking to make her change her teachings because they don’t want to live according to them. The Church is simply defending her teaching–not shoving it down anyones throat. Indeed it is the world that is trying to shove it’s teachings regarding sex down the Churches throat because for the world sex has become the new god–and it will justify anything to protect it.

It is the world that is obsessed with sin–what the world wants is for the Church to declare that all its pet sins are not sins–it wants to be validated in its sin–that’s why it continually attacks the Church’s teaching–and then when the Church defends itself–yells that the Church is obsessed with xy or z.

As has been said before you cannot TRULY know and love Christ if you won’t live the way he calls you to live (and I don’t mean you personally). Care to guess what the largest charitable institution in the world is? The Church does precisely what you want it to do are you really looking to find that in the Church.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

I don’t know if you’ll be back to this thread but I am going to leave you with this to think about:

"At the church where I am pastor, someone sent an email asking to be removed from the church membership. The stated reason for leaving read as follows:

 "I don't like Kyle's sermons.

That’s all it said…When he answered I simply said, ‘…I understand you’re leaving the church because you don’t like my sermons.’…Somewhere in the middle of his lengthy explanation he said something…I pulled over to the side of the road, grabbed a pen, and wrote down what he said:

Well…whenever I listen to one of the messages I feel like you are trying to interfere with my life.

Yeah, umm, that’s kind of my job description. But do you here what he was saying–I believe in Jesus, I’m a big fan, but don’t ask me to follow. I don’t mind coming to church on the weekends. I’ll pray before meals. I’ll even slap a Jesus fish on my bumper. But I don’t want Jesus to interfere with my life. when Jesus defines the relationship he wants with us he makes it clear that being a fan who believes with making a real commitment to follow isn’t an option."

When I read your objections regarding various Catholic teachings – I can’t help but feel that this is what you are saying–“I feel like you’re attempting to interfere with my life”–you don’t think that is what Christ came to do–to show you how we are supposed to live?

I truly hope you study and seek the truth.

The peace of Christ,
Mark