Thinking of the "Folk Mass"

[JoyIsLikeRain]

I know there’s countless debates on here about the music that came out right after Vatican II, and the traditional vs modern music camps, etc.

But occasionally, especially when I experience sadness and anxiety, I’ll sing one of the more uplifting or reverent “Hootenanny Mass” songs (and I’m just a child of the '80’s). I’ll also sometimes feel great joy and need of praising God, I’ll turn to one of those old selections. I know they’re outdated and unfit for the Mass, but the honest joy found in the lyrics are something different than run-of-the mill Haugen and Haas or Landry (and I love traditional Latin, but I don’t know many hymns in full).

If simple minds enjoy simple things, so be it. But if you’re interested in such old songs, you probably already know about Ken Canedo’s podcasts of songs from his book, "Keep the Fire Burning :
kencanedo.com/Podcasts.html

Plus, another site that contains dozens of digitized tape recordings of a “Folk Mass” choir from those years: buczynski.com/DonsMp3/Mp3_GroupVocal.html

(And, if you really want to see something that might make you chuckle, check out this Italian TV news footage from 1969 of an early guitar mass! : youtube.com/watch?v=EHyPQKJBmtQ&NR=1 )

 

[Love_Divine]

(And, if you really want to see something that might make you chuckle, check out this Italian TV news footage from 1969 of an early guitar mass! : youtube.com/watch?v=EHyPQKJBmtQ&NR=1 )

That’s just disturbing. You got men in suits, women in veils, altar boys, a priest celebrating Mass ad orientem in his elaborate Roman style chasuble, and then some guys on guitar, drums and a tamborine singing in the back .

Hmm…something doesn’t belong there. I wondering what it could be…

 

[Little_One0307]

Wow. I could not believe this when I looked at it. [edited] Thankfully, the newer generations are on a more traditional emphasis, who knows someday we just might reform the reform of the Mass. One can hope and pray.

God Bless.

 

[Phemie]

Ugh, these podcasts contain songs that I’ve been praying our choir would stop singing! If I hear “The Spirit Is A-moving” & “Take My Hands” again I may scream. Of all the songs included in those podcasts the only one I like and find myself singing in the shower is your name. Note that I’m singing it in the shower, not at church.

 

[puzzleannie]

I know there’s countless debates on here about the music that came out right after Vatican II, and the traditional vs modern music camps, etc.

But occasionally, especially when I experience sadness and anxiety, I’ll sing one of the more uplifting or reverent “Hootenanny Mass” songs (and I’m just a child of the '80’s). I’ll also sometimes feel great joy and need of praising God, I’ll turn to one of those old selections. I )

boomers, you knew it had to come, the folk mass would one day become a tradition of the “old days”. No there are no song books from that era, only a faded collection of badly mimeographed dog-eared songsheets, or a broken down overhead projector. Remember the first Glory and Praise?

I actually heard Sons of God (not politically correct) and They’ll know we are Christians as a Mass on my travels! Turns out this was the Winter Texan Mass and they run the music program. Boomers rule!

we have one group that does not play that often in our parish but they always do Peace is Flowing Like a River (a true camp song) but it’s okay I have earplugs. Father does not allow Lord of the Dance but I can dream.

I think Joy is singing in the shower too, or while she is driving, so cut her some slack. Welcome to the forums. Now I am going to have Michael Row the Boat Ashore as an earworm all day, thank you very much.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Ugh, these podcasts contain songs that I’ve been praying our choir would stop singing! If I hear “The Spirit Is A-moving” & “Take My Hands” again I may scream. Of all the songs included in those podcasts the only one I like and find myself singing in the shower is your name. Note that I’m singing it in the shower, not at church.

Wow. Well if you don’t like such old songs, you didn’t have to click on this thread. I’m regretting ever starting this.

 

[SMHW]

I don’t know that you will get too many people who are sentimental about the songs mentioned in Ken Canedo’s podcasts. Many folks here at CAF aren’t old enough. But I feel that way.

I’m just old enough to remember that the prior to the folk Mass days most Catholic parishes did not have fantastic music in either Latin or English. No doubt some parishes did. But mine did not.

The Medical Mission Sisters recording was already three or four years old before my teacher (1969-1970) began to play the record during our art classes or free periods at school. (That and the Sebastian Temple recording.) I remember my sixth grade class had lots of fun at recess changing the words of Wedding Banquet to, “I have bought me a wife. I have married a cow.”

Ten years later when I was in high school and community college I would enjoy listening and singing along with Ken Canedo and Bob Hurd when we attended Mass at the seminary.

And now I am lucky enough to belong to a parish that has a fantastic music program. We sing ALL kinds of music well.

Would I want to go back to those days. No. Not really. But yeah… I am nostalgic.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

I don’t know that you will get too many people who are sentimental about the songs mentioned in Ken Canedo’s podcasts. Many folks here at CAF aren’t old enough. But I feel that way…

Would I want to go back to those days. No. Not really. But yeah… I am nostalgic.

Yes, it’s part sentimentality. Although, the music offerings at most parishes in my area today are slow, depressing stuff from the 90’s or heretical (“I Myself am the Bread of Life”…), so things aren’t that much better. Would I take “Shout from the Highest Mountain” over “Make of our Hands a Throne”? Yes (although I know it’s impossible…exclusive language, certain hokey lyrics, etc.)

 

[GKCT]

I’m so old I was there at the beginning of the folk Mass. We just had a guitar and piano and the singing really was beautiful, good hymns. But I think it has outworn its welcome and should go bye-bye. But perhaps the “kids” like it.

However, I actually listen to folk music on the radio.

We have a folk Mass at church, the music is terrible, the singers can hardly be understood and aren’t that good. There just doesn’t seem to be the same reverence. The racket is very distracting so I do avoid that Mass.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, it’s part sentimentality. Although, the music offerings at most parishes in my area today are slow, depressing stuff from the 90’s or heretical (“I Myself am the Bread of Life”…), so things aren’t that much better. Would I take “Shout from the Highest Mountain” over “Make of our Hands a Throne”? Yes (although I know it’s impossible…exclusive language, certain hokey lyrics, etc.)

Wait, Joy. (must admit that yes, I know every word to Joy is like the Rain, having sung in a college folk group Mass in the 1970s). . .You might not be aware that the composer of “Make of Our Hands a Throne” happened to be the leader of **that very folk group **and still leads a folk group at Notre Dame (yes, THE Nottre Dame in Indiana) to this day. . . and the theology of the music at least is quite sound if you read the ECFs. . .

 

[TheMc]

That video is really disturbing. How disrespectful.

 

[MEPayne]

I remember the folk masses well and feel nostalgic at times too. In my church there was an excellent folk group that played and sang well, and I really felt Christ in my heart and soul when I heard songs like, “They’ll Know We Are Christians”. Why should we have to apologize or feel guilty for enjoying this type of music? I love the chants and polyphony and organ music; J.S. Bach is one of my heroes, but I also like the folk masses of the 70s-80s. This kind of music is less lofty, more “everyday” and for me it brought Jesus into my heart on a more visceral level, where I could relate to Jesus-as-a-man and not only as God. He was both. I don’t know if I’m making much sense, I just wanted to add my nostalgia to Joy’s.

BTW, I was recently wracking my brain, trying to think of the musical group who played at a religious education conference (CCD; remember that?) back in the late 70s. Finally remembered that the group was called Leaven/The Leaven. Anyone remember them? The leader of the group was Ron Griffen. Was shocked to learn that he’s now a pastor at a protestant church!

 

[waterbrook]

I’m not catholic but attended a catholic school in the 70s and did my degree in a catholic college in the early 80s. I was part of the College Liturgical Folk group and loved going along to the FolK Mass, there was a reall sense of community, the music and lyrics for me anyway communicated faith in a way that was simple and easy to grasp, as relational. I would not have changed that experience for anything and even now can remember the words of many of the songs, which has been hugely helpful at those times when I’m lost for a way of expressing what is going on inside myself. I think it is important to be able to return to the roots of our personal faith at times. When I go to Mass now a days I find that the congregation dont sing whatever the style of music and that makes it a really depressing experience, the sense of community is undermined…I would much prefer a said Mass.

 

[puzzleannie]

one album I miss from the early 60s that actually made the pop charts briefly was Missa Luba, a sung Mass in the 1962 missal produced by the Church in Africa (Congo I think), one of the most beautiful composed masses I have ever heard. Had of course a very short life. If you see the syrupy bio-pic of the Singing Nun (who also made the pop charts wit her guitar and cute ditties about their founder, Dominic) with Debbie Reynolds you can hear a bit in the background as she rides her scooter toward her assignment in the African missions.

 

[benedictgal]

If we were to look at Sacramentum Caritatis, we might very well find solid ground that a lot of the music uesd at these “folks Masses”, especially those written by Ken Canedo and Bob Hurd, does not exactly follow the guidelines set forth by Pope Benedict XVI in Sacramentum Caritatis:

Liturgical song

1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. **Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129). **Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).

In that regard, and in my own opinion (having read extensively on the subject) such music fails to “respect the meaning of the liturgy.”

 

[zab]

Singing and enjoying some of these old folk songs is no different than enjoying some of the old Protestant hymns whose lyrics are not contradictory with our Catholic Faith. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[MEPayne]

If we were to look at Sacramentum Caritatis, we might very well find solid ground that a lot of the music uesd at these “folks Masses”, especially those written by Ken Canedo and Bob Hurd, does not exactly follow the guidelines set forth by Pope Benedict XVI in Sacramentum Caritatis:

In that regard, and in my own opinion (having read extensively on the subject) such music fails to “respect the meaning of the liturgy.”

I must respectfully disagree. Folk Mass music was written long before Pope Benedict XVI, so you really can’t subject it to these “guidelines”. I’m sure Ken Canedo and others were devoted to respecting the meaning of the liturgy, and were expressing themselves in a way that made sense to them. Folk music, by it’s very nature, is of the ordinary people and I think it offers a way for the average person to feel closer to God in a way that much sacred music might not. (Though I enjoy them all.) It was not intended to be disrespectful nor heretical; it was a way express love for God, for the Liturgy and for each other that suited its time. I just wish there was room for it in today’s church. Saying that only organ music or chant or polyphony is right because it’s the way it’s always been done is simply wrong. Didn’t Jesus himself come to stir up the way things had always been done?

 

[TheMc]

I must respectfully disagree. Folk Mass music was written long before Pope Benedict XVI, so you really can’t subject it to these “guidelines”.[Yes, we can. No one is forcing us to play it. We don’t have to play this music.] I’m sure Ken Canedo and others were devoted to respecting the meaning of the liturgy, and were expressing themselves in a way that made sense to them. Folk music, by it’s very nature, is of the ordinary people and I think it offers a way for the average person to feel closer to God in a way that much sacred music might not. (Though I enjoy them all.) It was not intended to be disrespectful nor heretical;[But much of it still is…] it was a way express love for God, for the Liturgy and for each other that suited its time. I just wish there was room for it in today’s church. Saying that only organ music or chant or polyphony is right because it’s the way it’s always been done is simply wrong. [No, we say these things are the best for Mass. We say it the best for Mass because that is what Jesus and his church wants.] Didn’t Jesus himself come to stir up the way things had always been done?[By this logic, sacred tradition is useless, as is the church itself. Why don’t we “stir” it up, and get rid of the church?]

Clearly, you do not understand the purpose of sacred music. It is not to appeal to “ordinary people” by sounding like folk music. It is the exact opposite: It is supposed to be different than regular life. Higher than regular life. Folk music simply does not meet these qualifications, and never has.

Folk music is not sacred music, and should not be played at Mass. That is what all the popes for quite a while have said, not just B16.

 

[benedictgal]

I must respectfully disagree. Folk Mass music was written long before Pope Benedict XVI, so you really can’t subject it to these “guidelines”. I’m sure Ken Canedo and others were devoted to respecting the meaning of the liturgy, and were expressing themselves in a way that made sense to them. Folk music, by it’s very nature, is of the ordinary people and I think it offers a way for the average person to feel closer to God in a way that much sacred music might not. (Though I enjoy them all.) It was not intended to be disrespectful nor heretical; it was a way express love for God, for the Liturgy and for each other that suited its time. I just wish there was room for it in today’s church. Saying that only organ music or chant or polyphony is right because it’s the way it’s always been done is simply wrong. Didn’t Jesus himself come to stir up the way things had always been done?

Actually, it is not the opinion of just Pope Benedict XVI; this issue dates back to Pope St. Pius X. If you were to have read the references that I made, even Blessed Pope John Paul II recognized that the same problem that his saintly predecessor faced back in 1903 continues to rear its head in this day and age.

To say that Jesus merely stirred things up is, with all due respect, to completely misunderstand his actions and his words. Jesus never had any issues with the cultic sacrificial practices of Ancient Israel; in fact, he defended them. His concerns were not about the rituals; it was about the fact that the Pharisees had tried to force priestly practices on the people. Furthermore, Jesus did not contradict the sacrificial practices beecause these pointed to Him and they were dictated by His own Father. God cannot contradict Himself.

 

[zab]

Clearly, you do not understand the purpose of sacred music. It is not to appeal to “ordinary people” by sounding like folk music. It is the exact opposite: It is supposed to be different than regular life. Higher than regular life. Folk music simply does not meet these qualifications, and never has.

Folk music is not sacred music, and should not be played at Mass. That is what all the popes for quite a while have said, not just B16.

People who enjoyed singing those songs and volunteering to sing in those choirs were not being irreverent nor heretical. We are more enlightened today about what music is and what is not appropriate for Liturgy. That does not mean that people must avoid singing and enjoying the old folks songs outside the Liturgy. And that is what this thread is about.