Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin

[PJM]

=Lady Love;10259956]Never discourage anyone who has confidence in God’s mercy!

You may have to approach these people a different way. It may be as simple as this:

God obviously loves you enough to forgive you of your mortal sins but do you love God and yourself enough to stop committing them? God loves you enough to forgive you of these sins but do you love Him enough to stop subjecting Him to such horrible crimes? To make it to heaven the love MUST be reciprocated.

What yor sharing is very nice; but its better with charity to call a sinner and siner; and a Mortal sin a Mortal sin.

Only The Catholic Sacrament of Confession will actually get’s God;s forgivness… that is His Mandate:thumbsup:

Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. [20] And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord.

He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained

My friend there is no lack of clarity here and no lack of charity. We have the singular truth and we MUST share it.

 

[Lady_Love]

Only The Catholic Sacrament of Confession will actually get’s God;s forgivness… that is His Mandate:thumbsup:

:

This actually is NOT true. I am not discouraging the Sacrament of Reconciliation (for I frequent it often) but perfect contrition will result in forgiveness.

Perfect contrition (from Latin contero – grind, crush, pound to pieces) in Catholic theology is a repentance for sins which is motivated by the love of God. It contrasts with imperfect contrition, or attrition; a repentance arising from a less pure motive, such as common decency, or fear of Hell.

 

[fastenatingguy]

Perfect contrition (from Latin contero – grind, crush, pound to pieces) in Catholic theology is a repentance for sins which is motivated by the love of God. It contrasts with imperfect contrition, or attrition; a repentance arising from a less pure motive, such as common decency, or fear of Hell.

I understand this also, but need help in knowing its origin. Can anyone help? Thank you!

 

[PJM]

=Lady Love;10260779]This actually is NOT true. I am not discouraging the Sacrament of Reconciliation (for I frequent it often) but perfect contrition will result in forgiveness.

Perfect contrition (from Latin contero – grind, crush, pound to pieces) in Catholic theology is a repentance for sins which is motivated by the love of God. It contrasts with imperfect contrition, or attrition; a repentance arising from a less pure motive, such as common decency, or fear of Hell.

Not as a substitute for the sacrament of Confession.

CCC 1424 It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a “confession” - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.
It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest’s sacramental absolution God grants the penitent "pardon and peace."

It is called the sacrament of Reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: “Be reconciled to God.” He who lives by God’s merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord’s call: “Go; first be reconciled to your brother.”

CCC 1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance**: “All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession,** even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly.”

What you suggest is HIGHLY conditional

1 In the case of GRAVE emergency and even then when able to get to Confession as a priority; one is gravely obligated to do so

1. As a possibilty for one who does not KNOW about the sacrament through their OWN FAULT

3 Then it is UP TO God to determine if he will accept as “Perfect” your contrition. MUST be based on love of God; NOT fear of hell.

Continued Blessings,
Pat

 

[GAHere]

In the OP I meant to make the assumption that the person knows it is a grave sin and does it anyway.

But that’s a big assumption. How do you know the person ‘knows’ it is a grave sin and chooses to do it anyway?

Certainly my relatives were taught that certain choices and actions are considered mortal sins by the church, so they ‘know’ on an intellectual level of the teaching. It seems more likely so assume they never truly grasped the knowledge they were given and thus dismiss it as possibly not true. That is what enables them to side with the other ‘knowledge’ of God’s grace that the baptists teach.

When I have been able to broach the subject with my family members it is obvious that once they learned about ways other churches explained God’s relationship to man it was a matter of choosing which ‘truth’ to accept. They chose the other and now they don’t recognize certain actions as being mortal sins. It’s not so much that they have chosen to commit a mortal sin as they have chosen to believe the sins we were taught were mortal really are. One of my siblings chose to no longer consider himself Catholic. I pray for him most.

My other still considers herself fully Catholic but no longer follows the structure of being Catholic. She doesn’t believe God will condemn her for not attending mass every Sunday, she just doesn’t see him as being that petty. She believes God forgives her sins when she confesses them to him directly, not through a mediator. Again, she can’t fathom a God so merciful that he’d die for us, yet petty enough to condemn us to hell for not accepting his teaching on confessing to a mediator, or fasting on Fridays, etc. I have not been able to find a way to reason with her on those points, not that there are many opportunities to do so, we live states apart from each other. I pray for her a lot because the spirit has to work through her interactions with others since she doesn’t bring herself to opportunities to receive actual grace through sacraments. Unfortunately she surrounds herself with non-active Catholics like herself so she becomes more and more comfortable in that view of faith.

Then there are the Catholics who still attend church regularly, participate in the sacraments, but have been heavily influenced by their non-Catholic friends’ view of God’s mercy. I think they are much like my sister, but they continue to go through the motions of Catholic rituals and obligations as insurance rather than out of absolute belief in them. I pray for them because at least they still receive the Eucharist. The grace they receive may be minuscule due to their errant way of believing, but at least they receive him and in that, I have hope it will increase their faith and reveal his Truth.

 

[fred_conty]

Sounds as tho many here have strays in the family, and we all do. And it is only natural that all of us fear for their safety.

It seems like a bit of indifference to the faith, or a weakness or some loss of faith. It’s the attitude that they were brought here with their consent, so now this frees them from any real effort on their part. They feel they can do pretty much what they want to do as long as it doesn’t hurt someone else.

They have the idea that religion is just a set of rules and not a life, so it isn’t that important except to argue about. They don’t see it as a life they share with Jesus, one that can be filled with love and understanding. This lack of spiritual growth and meaning is at the bottom of it. But now their lives are busy and they aren’t about to take the time and make the effort to do that.

What I have seen here on CAF is that people do mature, and come to recognize that there are some things more important than just this world and life. Whey they reach that point, then some serious thoughts begin to open up to them.

So they need two things. One, knowledge which they are not motivated for. Two, light which comes from grace opening up their minds to more important things.

I think all we can do is number two. Pray for the light to open them up to wanting the truth.

There is one other alternative method if you can get them to do it. That is the green scapular of Mary. It is Mary’s gift to us to help us and here is how.

… Conversion of those who do not have the faith
… Reconciliation to the Church for those who have lost/strayed from the faith
… Assurance of a happy death
… Strengthening of the faith for those already in the Church
… Protection from Satan for those who wear or promote the scapular

Are’nt those benefits what you want? Maybe all of them?

However for it to work, Mary did ask a favour of you.

Give it to the person for whom you pray.
The green scapular should be blessed.
Wear it around the neck, or carry it on you and them, in your wallet, purse, pocket.
Say this prayer at least twice every day, once for yourself, and once for them:
“Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death.”
Have great trust in her. Place yourself in her care and tell her that you know your problem is taken care of because she promised on her word. And thank her every day.

She didn’t say when, only that she would do it for you.

A free green scapular may be obtained by googling “geen scapular”.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…=544742&page=3

My father, a fallen-away Catholic, passed away several years ago. When he first became ill and was hospitalized, one of the Vincentian priest pinned a Green Scapular to his pillow. I know my mother was especially worried about his salvation, as he had not awakened following emergency surgery. He did awaken many days later, and that same Vincentian asked if he wished to receive the sacraments. He was on a ventilator, so he could not speak, but he could indicate “yes” or “no”, so the priest simply asked if he was sorry for any and all sins he committed, then he was given Extreme Unction. This was 2 years to the day of my auto accident, August 3rd. He died 2 days later, on the Feast of Our Lady of the Snows on August 5th. There is a promise attached to the Green Scapular that Our Lady will obtain the conversion of those who have fallen away from the True Faith. I’m convinced she did so with my father, the day of his death was clearly Providential.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=620449
(From an atheist)
How did you come to embrace Catholicism?
Strangely enough, it was the Blessed Virgin Mary. That friend of mine had sneakily
snuck in a scapular under my mattress. I didn’t know until about 1 year into my
conversion. I imagine that she had something to do with it. I think it was the
green scapular.

 

[dontknowitall]

if lying or stealing is a mortal sin or libleing or slandering a persons character

is a mortal sin–

then i know a lot of catholics and protestants that should figure it out–

but i am told that it’s just Politics:shrug:

 

[Glacies]

How might you approach this?

One may refer to the teaching of the 2nd Council of Lyons (1274) and the Council of Florence (1438-1445) which declare the souls departed in mortal or original sin descend to Hell.

The 2nd Council of Lyons (D 464):

The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, yet to be punished with different punishments.

The Council of Florence (D 693):

Moreover, the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds

 

[Apologista]

When people start thinking they can tell whether God is being “petty” on a matter, I just shake my head in disbelief and wonder if they’ve ever reflected on the Scriptures that say that His ways are not our ways and vice versa.

Like when Peter was telling Jesus He wouldn’t have to suffer and die, remember what Jesus said - “Get thee behind me, Satan!”

 

[123Strontium]

In Protestantism, there’s a doctrine where they believe sacramental grace cannot be lost, so long as they have faith. This description of yours sounds very like what you describe. Whereas in Catholicism, sacramental grace can be lost by repeated sin, because sin separates us from God. May be they don’t know this? It’s hard to establish whether every catholic knows the same degree of knowledge about moral teaching.

I’ve never really been in any frank conversations with fellow catholics on such personal matters, mortal sin usually is a matter between person and confessor. There are however overt examples where it might be more obvious eg. a gay couple. It would be difficult to believe they weren’t practising homosexuals if they were a couple being together all the time. It would be exceptional if they were celibate in a relationship, temptation must be huge.

However, it does say in scripture that 1.) It’s not for us to judge.
2.) Repent! and wash away your sins. So who knows, there may be 2nd chances but it would be a risk taken, we all have differering tolerances for risks, maybe they are the ones hedging their bets. Having your cake and eating it.

Those of us who are more thorough might want to go straight for the beeline, than make concessions about moral matters. In the end, God is the arbiter.

However, I sort of know what you mean. Your psychology is like, “well I’m trying hard to aim for Christian perfection and these people who aren’t trying as hard are so smug.”

Perhaps you should find the section in the bible that says something about not being complacent about salvation. It’s in there somewhere.

I’d say also, there is something interesting about us Catholics, we do tend to be quite judgemental as a kind of incidental offshoot of trying to be perfect people with high standards. But, that’s what we including me, must avoid ! Even though, we are susceptible.

It says somewhere in scripture that we will ultimately be judged by how we judge other people, so this is like a measure to ensure we are not being hypocrites.

Peace out.

 

[ericboutin]

I could be wrong but I don’t think anyone is trying to judge anyone’s souls, something that fortunately for us is God’s job and His alone. Also if I’m not mistaken we are required to help each other out by judging each other’s bad behavior, the two are quite different. Anyone who has kids know we do this several times a day! Lol.

 

[123Strontium]

Perhaps to add, there are probably 2 types of judgement that man can make, constructive judgement and judgement made on behalf of personal pride. We must know our motivations. Self awareness and what not.

 

[ericboutin]

Perhaps to add, there are probably 2 types of judgement that man can make, constructive judgement and judgement made on behalf of personal pride. We must know our motivations. Self awareness and what not.

Amen to that! Lol. And ironically enough I think today’s readings and Gospel sum this up perfectly!! Lol. Thanks!

 

[hazcompat]

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. (100 times)

While we draw breath the door of repentence is open. Mercy is for this world, then comes judgement.

Peace

 

[fred_conty]

I have encountered this: People who think they will go to heaven, or have a great amount of hope that they will get into heaven, even when they perpetually commit the same mortal sin. These are Catholics who are catechized well enough to know it is a mortal sin they are committing, but not catechized enough to know this isn’t how it’s supposed to work.

Their response to any conversation in this matter always ends up with them believing in God’s infinite mercy and that He will understand why it was okay for them to commit the sin.

How might you approach this?

You might say,

Mercy means to show forgiveness. How can a person be forgiven when they won’t stop?

 

[Journey322]

I could be wrong but I don’t think anyone is trying to judge anyone’s souls, something that fortunately for us is God’s job and His alone. Also if I’m not mistaken we are required to help each other out by judging each other’s bad behavior, the two are quite different. Anyone who has kids know we do this several times a day! Lol.

I agree…“Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another.” I forget the scripture address, but it’s in there.

 

[Journey322]

Also, I like what one of the other posters said about reminding people that God loves them enough to forgive them and then asking that person if they love God enough to give up the sin.