Third Order Carmelite

[St_Gabriel]

Hi,

My grandmother is a member of the third order carmelite. She has been wearing only brown for more than 50 years and recites some prayers for the order daily. She has been widowed for more than 70 years. I am curious about this order (what is it all about?).

 

[Joysong]

That is basically the Order’s color, but third order members are not obliged to wear brown. It is probably her personal devotion.

I believe your grandmother is praying the Liturgy of the Hours which all third order Carmelites promise to recite, together with the universal Church. The Order also prays for priests in a special way, as envisioned by the Foundress, St. Teresa of Avila.

Why not ask your grandmother to explain her vocation to you? This would be a beautiful sharing and her witness to you of the call God has blessed her with. I could elaborate here, but I think it would be a special moment to hear it from your grandmother. Most assuredly, she keeps you in prayer, too! Maybe this is one of those anointed inspirations for you to be asking this question here.

Carole

 

[St_Gabriel]

That is basically the Order’s color, but third order members are not obliged to wear brown. It is probably her personal devotion.

I believe your grandmother is praying the Liturgy of the Hours which all third order Carmelites promise to recite, together with the universal Church. The Order also prays for priests in a special way, as envisioned by the Foundress, St. Teresa of Avila.

Why not ask your grandmother to explain her vocation to you? This would be a beautiful sharing and her witness to you of the call God has blessed her with. I could elaborate here, but I think it would be a special moment to hear it from your grandmother. Most assuredly, she keeps you in prayer, too! Maybe this is one of those anointed inspirations for you to be asking this question here.

Carole

Thank you for your reply. Well actually, I have talked to her about this. She has shown me her prayer cards, which are all faded now and written in another language (other than english) that’s why I was currious. Some of them I know. One of her prayers is to/from the saint in your signature. I have thought about a vocation to this, but think it may interfer with married life and raising a family at this time.

 

[Joysong]

Hi St Gabriel,

I have thought about a vocation to this, but think it may interfere with married life and raising a family at this time.

Married life is not an obstacle, but the aspirant does need the approval of their spouse before becoming a member, for there are spiritual obligations one undertakes as well as being part of the community. Normally, the meetings are once a month, but they can take up almost a full day, depending on the circumstances of the regional chapter.

One does not join merely because it is a good practice to be more devoted and spiritual. No, one must be called to it by God, through certain attractions that He places in the heart. Primarily, that would be a continuing devotion to the order’s saints and their writings, ultimately in pursuit of union with God. Similarly, a franciscan third order would inspire a devotion to St. Francis of Assisi and his way of life in voluntary simplicity that may also include poverty.

The strength in living as a part of a spiritual community is also an added bonus, if you will, for in becoming a third order member, you are also connected to the first and second orders of priests and religious - the vine and the branches.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hi,

My grandmother is a member of the third order carmelite. She has been wearing only brown for more than 50 years and recites some prayers for the order daily. She has been widowed for more than 70 years. I am curious about this order (what is it all about?).

The Discalced Carmelites 3rd Order is actually called a Secular Order. This is because religious can be 3rd order. It is my understanding that Pope John Paul II was a 3rd order Discalced Caremlite.

The way it works is,

1st Order Priest of the Order, known as Friars.
2nd Order Brothers and Nuns
3rd Order, religious outside the order, who wish to follow the spirituality of the order
Secular order, lay people.

For years there was only the 3rd order, but they wanted to distinguish between religious members of the 3rd order and laity.
Also, some members of 3rd orders get carried away and started to wear a habit and give people the impression they were of the
2nd order. Yes we have are fanatics too.

Jim

 

[Joysong]

Also, some members of 3rd orders get carried away and started to wear a habit and give people the impression they were of the 2nd order. Yes we have are fanatics too.

I would not want to leave our readers with that impression, Jim. Our St. Teresa would refer to some of these tendencies as excess zeal which, due our lack of self-knowledge and imperfection will hopefully be brought into the passive purifications spoken of in the Dark Night.

I’m reminded of my secret six-month penance as I wore a blue ‘habit’ to conquer my temptations to vanity. We never know why some in Carmel adopt the wearing of its colors; it may be a leading of the Spirit. This would need to be discerned by a prudent spiritual director. I had the permission of my priest prior to wearing it, and when God saw that I was ‘cured,’ He called me back to street clothes.

 

[FCEGM]

Thank you for your reply. Well actually, I have talked to her about this. She has shown me her prayer cards, which are all faded now and written in another language (other than english) that’s why I was currious. Some of them I know. One of her prayers is to/from the saint in your signature. I have thought about a vocation to this, but think it may interfer with married life and raising a family at this time.

StGabriel - God bless your grandmother for her fidelity through the years! There are actually two Carmelite Orders, each of which has a Third (or Secular) Order component, so it’s one of these two of which your grandmother is a members. The first is the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance (O. Carm) whose lay members are known as Lay Carmelites. The second is the Discalced Carmelites, founded as a reform of the O. Carm. Order; St. Teresa of Jesus (aka “of Avila”) is the Foundress, with the assistance of St. John of the Cross. The lay - or secular - members are known as Secular Discalced Carmelites - O.C.D.S… (All who have responded to you so far - including me - are Secular Discalced Carmelites )

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I would not want to leave our readers with that impression, Jim. Our St. Teresa would refer to some of these tendencies as excess zeal which, due our lack of self-knowledge and imperfection will hopefully be brought into the passive purifications spoken of in the Dark Night.

I’m reminded of my secret six-month penance as I wore a blue ‘habit’ to conquer my temptations to vanity. We never know why some in Carmel adopt the wearing of its colors; it may be a leading of the Spirit. This would need to be discerned by a prudent spiritual director. I had the permission of my priest prior to wearing it, and when God saw that I was ‘cured,’ He called me back to street clothes.

“Excess zeal” is actually the term I was actually looking for when I wrote what I did. Thanks for the correction.

In Carmel
Jim

 

[Andruschak]

Thank you for your reply. Well actually, I have talked to her about this. She has shown me her prayer cards, which are all faded now and written in another language (other than english) that’s why I was currious. Some of them I know. One of her prayers is to/from the saint in your signature. I have thought about a vocation to this, but think it may interfer with married life and raising a family at this time.

Perhaps you might want to consider the Confraternity of Penitents at penitents.org/

Open to all, this is a lay Catholic group. We do not wear habits, but we do try to set up a regular program of prayer and penance. You would need permission of your husband to join.

PS: that language other then English is Latin.

 

[sgrima]

I honestly don’t see a problem with the Third Orders wearing a habit as long as they do it with…discretion. (i.e. If you wear the habit at work versus wearing it in church) but that’s just my opinion. However, I could see where that would rouse some confusion if you at church wearing a habit and kiss your spouse at the sign of peace…but Carmelites don’t have to worry since they are given a scapular of their order to wear for masses and ceremonies.

 

[drforjc]

I honestly don’t see a problem with the Third Orders wearing a habit as long as they do it with…discretion. (i.e. If you wear the habit at work versus wearing it in church) but that’s just my opinion. However, I could see where that would rouse some confusion if you at church wearing a habit and kiss your spouse at the sign of peace…but Carmelites don’t have to worry since they are given a scapular of their order to wear for masses and ceremonies.

Our Third Order Carmelite Statutes forbid wearing of a habit or attire that clearly attempts to mimics a habit, except for burial (there is an official TOC habit for this purpose, described in the statutes) or with the permission of the Order.

 

[Augustine]

1st Order Priest of the Order, known as Friars.
2nd Order Brothers and Nuns
3rd Order, religious outside the order, who wish to follow the spirituality of the order
Secular order, lay people.

I’m confused. Aren’t religious brothers part of the 1st order too? I know that St. Catherine of Sienna was a 3rd order Dominican, but I never quite understood her status, since she’s depicted wearing a habit.

TIA

 

[BeMyLight]

I just recently heard about the third Order of Carmelites through a close friend. I feel call to this order - don’t know much about it but I have a strong devotion for St. Teresa of Avila and St. Therese little flower. I would like to know more about the order and join the community in my home town of Charlotte, NC. Could some one help me?

Ana D.