Third Order Carmelites Lurking?

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I’ve been discerning a vocation as a Third Order or Secular Carmelite. I hope to attend the next mass where they meet and will have an opportunity to ask questions, but this is a couple weeks away.

Does anyone know how illness is looked upon? I just found out about some CT Scan abnormalities and one of several possibilities is cancer. If this were to come to pass, would it prevent me from becoming an aspirant as I undergo treatment?

Also, I’ve been wondering about the Brown Scapular. Does one need to be a Carmelite to wear one?

Long ago I spent considerable time in the writings of St. John of the Cross and knew I would eventually work my way over to St. Teresa of Avila among others.

I already attend mass daily, say a rosary daily, and pray in other ways, easily meeting the 1/2 prayer expectation.

I was all gung-ho about becoming an aspirant when I learned about the abnormalities.

I would never expect to become a novice if I didn’t have a calendar clear of treatment regimens that would allow me to fulfil all obligations required. With that in mind, I am assuming acceptance would be permitted to move forward should things go into remission (if it were cancer).

Either way, I fully accept God’s plan and that may mean I won’t get to see my dream of serving Him as a T.O. Carmelite. In the meanwhile, I’m wondering if I shouldn’t show my committment by wearing the Scapular sooner than later.

Also, is it legit to move from the brown to the medal scapular once one has gone through the process to receive it?

Thoughts?
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I’ve been discerning a vocation as a Third Order or Secular Carmelite. I hope to attend the next mass where they meet and will have an opportunity to ask questions, but this is a couple weeks away.

Does anyone know how illness is looked upon? I just found out about some CT Scan abnormalities and one of several possibilities is cancer. If this were to come to pass, would it prevent me from becoming an aspirant as I undergo treatment?

Also, I’ve been wondering about the Brown Scapular. Does one need to be a Carmelite to wear one?

Long ago I spent considerable time in the writings of St. John of the Cross and knew I would eventually work my way over to St. Teresa of Avila among others.

I already attend mass daily, say a rosary daily, and pray in other ways, easily meeting the 1/2 prayer expectation.

I was all gung-ho about becoming an aspirant when I learned about the abnormalities.

I would never expect to become a novice if I didn’t have a calendar clear of treatment regimens that would allow me to fulfil all obligations required. With that in mind, I am assuming acceptance would be permitted to move forward should things go into remission (if it were cancer).

Either way, I fully accept God’s plan and that may mean I won’t get to see my dream of serving Him as a T.O. Carmelite. In the meanwhile, I’m wondering if I shouldn’t show my committment by wearing the Scapular sooner than later.

Also, is it legit to move from the brown to the medal scapular once one has gone through the process to receive it?

Thoughts?
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Dear friend

I hope you don’t mind me replying to your post.

I am a Third Order O’Carm formative and there are many on this forum who are or are formative Carmelites TOC or TO’Carm. I am hoping you receive many replies of encouragement from the community online here at CA Forums.

I am sorry to hear of your health difficulties I will keep you in my prayers for a full recovery. Your health difficulties should not impede you developing your spirituality in Carmel. You will have to discuss with the person in charge of your formation should you discern TOC (Third Order Carmelite) to be where God is leading you, what they can do to accomodate you and any illness you may or may not have.

You may be invested in the Brown Scapular whether you are TOC or not. It is for the layperson to wear as a sign of devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mother Mary and to Jesus. The Brown Scapular as you know is particular to the Carmel Order and by wearing it you share in the prayers of that Order. Ask your Parish Priest to invest you in the Scapular if that is what you would like. The medal is not to be worn in preference to the Scapular, there is a thread on this forum that explains this thoroughly.

Make your enquiries in respect of the TOC and see how you go once you have visited them and learnt a little more from them. You already fulfill some of the obligations by daily Mass etc and you may like to purchase a copy of the Divine Office or the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin and begin to pray those as part of your obligation.

I am certain of one thing, that it is far more important for you to live in the spirituality of Carmel and try as particular to your state in life to live out that spirituality with a sincere heart. If you are seriously ill I am compelled to say that this spirituality will offer you much as you go through the coming times and you will bring much to Carmel.

If you don’t mind I will include you in my daily prayers for your call to Carmel and for your health.

In the Love of Christ

Teresa
 
I am an OCDS formative! I have had cancer twice, another member of my group has been through it once. Some are going through other testing times. It is no barrier at all in fact quite the opposite.

I was enrolled in the brown Scapular in 2002 and have witnessed remarkable things through the devotion. My advice would be GO FOR IT!!! Christ is calling you through the heart of His Holy Mother. be enrolled in the Brown Scapular. I can send you a free one if you would like it.

My friend do not be afraid no matter what the news is.
If you are called to suffer then remember that suffering is no more than a kiss from Christ. A mark from the Cross that leads us deeper into union with Christ.

You are in my prayers.
 
Welcome!

I’m an OCDS aspirant. I too will keep you in my prayers and wish you every success in your hopes for Carmel. Rather than being an “impediment,” it might be closer to the truth that beginning formation during a time of illness might end up making you an “inspiration” to your community. 🙂

As for the particulars you mentioned in your post, it might be best to contact the formation director for your community if you haven’t already done so. I know in my case, it was the preference of the community that I wait for 1 year before being clothed in the Brown Scapular - this is consistent with the new OCDS Constitution.

You’ll find out quickly that “community” is a big part of life in Carmel - and the clothing ceremony and first and final promises are very big milestones for the individual and the community itself.

I wish you all the best and look forward to seeing you around these forums.

Dave.
 
Well, I truly hope the good Lord will let me live long enough to see the dream. You see, I’ve been away for a while, and I have returned - a second conversion of sorts. The Lord has blessed me with a strong spirit. I knew when the conversion got into full swing - around the time that Pope Benedict was sworn in, that either God had plans for me, or he was about to call me home. I can’t believe the things that have been happening to me spiritually, then came the news after I went to the hospital with chest pains. I had been dealing with them since out on a medical with an asthmatic condition that caused a heavy paroxysmal cough (think whooping cough-like). Four months I was out with this and even fractured a rib from the coughing.

So, I dismissed the pain as sore and torn muscles. Then, it started to creep into my arm, neck and jaw and I thought it was time to go to the ER to make sure it wasn’t the heart. It was not - passed the stressed test with flying colors.

But, as they released me, they told me that they found two abnormalities on my chest CT scan. One was involving the breast - the side where I have intense pain. The other involving one adrenal gland. Both could be benign issues and I pray that they are. But, cancer is also a possibility. Next on the list is a mammogram and an ultrasound of the adrenal gland. I have such numbness (like novacaine) in my neck, jaw and arm, that it gives me a sinking feeling.

But, I reconciled with it immediately thinking that one cannot fully follow Christ without suffering and maybe this will prove to be that opportunity a little sooner than I had hoped. I plan on using it to practice virtue. I’m also using it as an opportunity to fully grasp that I must detach myself from everything and everyone around me. It is easy to lapse into sorrow at the thought of leaving my niece and nephew behind who have gone through so much with the loss of some other close relatives. But, I have reconciled with that too and understand that as much as I love them, God loves them more.

I have also come to a realization that no matter how bad any suffering gets, it is the way of a Carmelite, to seek comfort only in the Lord and no one else. True to the path of Christ, there will be times of darkness and sense of abandonment and I pray that I have the courage to walk right through it.

Whether the Lord lets me live 2 days, 2 months, 2 years or 60 years more, I wish to serve him as a border collie, rounding up the flock and sending them home so the shepherds can care for them. My conversion was one that involved the sudden understanding of Truth and it turned my life completely around (thanks Pope Benedict!). I hope to share with others what I have learned and will work hard until my dying breath to catch just one more stray lamb and bring it home.

At this same time, my 73 year old mother, who lives with me, is facing a similar issue. She too is being investigated for cancer (pancreas tip swollen). So, two of us in the same household may be in for a ride. I willingly accept any and all prayers for both of us.

Thank you all for your encouragement and prayers. I will pursue it!
 
Hi there I am also a TOCarm from Manila. I am glad to hear about your desire to join the Order. Welcome to Carmel! 🙂 But perhaps there is need for you to inquire or try to find out from a TOC community nearest your place about their guidelines in admitting aspirants. In the Philippines we have a ruling against admitting as an aspirant those who have been diagnosed as terminally ill or have some kind of physical disability and instead we enroll them as members of the Confraternity of the Brown Scapular. Membership in the Confraternity is purely for devotional purposes and the member is not obligated to regularly attend formation and community meetings and undertake our TOC Ministries. We are now actively organizing Confraternities in parishes to serve as alternative venues for those who would only want to wear the Brown Scapular but cannot cope up with other TOC obligations such as formation studies and regular attendance in community meetings and various ministries due to physical disabilities and sicknesses. It is to be noted that Confraternity members also share in the benefits of the Carmelite Order and we treat them as members of the Carmelite Family.
We recommend the Little Office as their official prayer book. I know for a fact that some TOC communities in the USA/Canada still accept isolated members (Oh, but I may be wrong in this - please correct me if I am wrong…) so probably you still have a chance to be a TOC depending on their provincial statutes.

I will be praying for your healing and sincerely pray that God will manifest His will for you perfectly in this area of your life.

God bless,
Nimfa
 
Hi Diane,

I noticed on another thread of yours that you live in Detroit’s east side. Glory! I used to live there about 25 years ago in St. Clair Shores. At that time, I was drawn to Carmel, but the only OCDS community to my knowledge was the one at the Monastery of St. Therese on Wyoming near Six Mile Road.

As Dave mentioned, community is an important aspect of Carmel, for when we have the “call” we are also given the call to a particular community. It is the community that ultimately decides, through their council, whether the aspirant seems to belong with them. And vice versa, we determine if the new community “fits” us spiritually.

For some reason, I just could not feel at home there. Perhaps I may not have been ready, or else the blend of personalities and/or leadership was just not attracting me. After I moved to Pennsylvania, the inspiration returned, and I did find a community in which I felt truly comfortable.

Are there other active communities in Detroit beside the one I mentioned? If so, I’m not surprised, for the order is really growing all over the US.

It is such a refreshing memory to think about my home town, and you have brought it all back through your Assumption Grotto thread. Maybe when I come home to visit, we can meet some day for lunch?

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole
 
I use to meet with the TOC here in town some years ago. But I was asked to not come to any more meetings. My problem? I’m mentally ill and the group couldn’t take my “neediness.” I haven’t talked to anyone from that group in a long time. I’ve considered asking them if they would reconsider me. It’s a great group. I really enjoyed the meetings.
 
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Joysong:
It is such a refreshing memory to think about my home town, and you have brought it all back through your Assumption Grotto thread. Maybe when I come home to visit, we can meet some day for lunch?

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole
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I was drawn to the Grotto, actually sent by the same Carmelite nuns that were on Wyoming (now in Clinton Twp). I emailed them and told them of my need to find a Spiritual Director fluent in St. John of the Cross. They sent me to Fr. Perrone at Assumption Grotto and it has been a real blessing for me.

Lunch - sure. You know where to find me - just PM me ahead of time. 🙂
 
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Pilgrim525:
Hi there I am also a TOCarm from Manila. I am glad to hear about your desire to join the Order. Welcome to Carmel! 🙂 But perhaps there is need for you to inquire or try to find out from a TOC community nearest your place about their guidelines in admitting aspirants. In the Philippines we have a ruling against admitting as an aspirant those who have been diagnosed as terminally ill or have some kind of physical disability and instead we enroll them as members of the Confraternity of the Brown Scapular. Membership in the Confraternity is purely for devotional purposes and the member is not obligated to regularly attend formation and community meetings and undertake our TOC Ministries. We are now actively organizing Confraternities in parishes to serve as alternative venues for those who would only want to wear the Brown Scapular but cannot cope up with other TOC obligations such as formation studies and regular attendance in community meetings and various ministries due to physical disabilities and sicknesses. It is to be noted that Confraternity members also share in the benefits of the Carmelite Order and we treat them as members of the Carmelite Family.
We recommend the Little Office as their official prayer book. I know for a fact that some TOC communities in the USA/Canada still accept isolated members (Oh, but I may be wrong in this - please correct me if I am wrong…) so probably you still have a chance to be a TOC depending on their provincial statutes.

I will be praying for your healing and sincerely pray that God will manifest His will for you perfectly in this area of your life.

God bless,
Nimfa
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I couldn’t agree more that one has to be able to “perform the minimum duties” to go all the way with joining. If one is sick and capable, then I see no reason to block it, if one meets prayer times, ability to fit into the community, etc. If I were so sick as to not be able to pray at least a half hour daily, and make 90% of monthly meetings, if not 100%, then I would not even expect them to take me on.

I’ll find out more about the community and if their rules prohibit, then I will respect that. Nothing prevents me from living the carmelite life outside of the order, in the manner you describe. 🙂
 
Christy Beth:
I use to meet with the TOC here in town some years ago. But I was asked to not come to any more meetings. My problem? I’m mentally ill and the group couldn’t take my “neediness.” I haven’t talked to anyone from that group in a long time. I’ve considered asking them if they would reconsider me. It’s a great group. I really enjoyed the meetings.
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So sorry it didn’t work out for you. I do hope you live out your dream regardless, even if it is outside the order. God appreciates it whether it is official or not.
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I couldn’t agree more that one has to be able to “perform the minimum duties” to go all the way with joining. If one is sick and capable, then I see no reason to block it, if one meets prayer times, ability to fit into the community, etc. If I were so sick as to not be able to pray at least a half hour daily, and make 90% of monthly meetings, if not 100%, then I would not even expect them to take me on.

I’ll find out more about the community and if their rules prohibit, then I will respect that. Nothing prevents me from living the carmelite life outside of the order, in the manner you describe. 🙂
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Hi Diane,

I perfectly believe that if it is God’s will for you to be a TOC you will be one. There’s no doubt about that.

We had a member whose cancer was diagnozed on the 3rd month after she was admitted as an aspirant. Except for the time she had her chemo and thus her aspirancy period was extended, she managed to comply with all her obligations until she was received as a Novice last November, 2004. She was faithful to all her obligations while she was on remission but her condition worsened in January this year. Four days before she expired I recommended that she undertake her Final Profession if she so desired. She did, so she died a Final Professed TOC. Our Statutes provide that in danger of death, the Local Council may admit a new member to Final Profession tho’ if recovery occurs, the newly professed member must resume the regular program of formation.

When God calls us to a vocation He also provides us with the means or the grace to be faithful to our calling.

God bless,
Nimfa
 
Wow, that is a wonderful story. I’m glad she lived her dream. Rest her soul.

I spoke with my own family doctor yesterday about the preliminary results of the CT Scan and he was more forthcoming and I’m so glad I spoke to him. The specialist told me that I should have cause for concern. My family doctor is telling me that the most common condition with the adrenal gland is an adenoma - a tumor that grows on the gland that people just live with - normally. He said unless it gets big, they just leave it be. Hopefully, that is all it is. I go tomorrow for my ultrasound.
 
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