Third Order or full religious life?

[iBenedicta]

All my life I’ve thought about what to do with my life, and now that I’m about to graduate from college I’ve realized that I wouldn’t have “it all” figured out when I’m done with school.

So I’m about to be baptized Catholic, and now I’m thinking and praying over getting involved with a few third orders or the religious life. Have there been cases where laypeople have gone from third orders to religious life, or do third orders require a lifetime commitment which would not allow moving from the third order?

I’m still somewhat young (25), and considered a fully devoted religious life in the faith I was involved in before I converted to Catholicism. It might take me awhile to pay off school loans, but I went to college, not a university–not as expensive. I really have no idea how long discernment typically takes.

 

[DaughterOfMary6]

Typically, third orders are for those not discerning religious life. You make vows just like religious do (permanent). It would require a dispensation from the Vicar General of the Third Order (I believe) to transfer to a religious community. If you believe you are called to religious life, or just see it as a possibility, it would be wise to wait before making a commitment to a third order, however, it might be a good idea to attend a meeting of those local to you to try to ascertain which spirituality you should look into–Carmelite, Franciscan, Benedictine, Dominican, etc.

As for the discernment part, there is no “set in stone” rule of how long it will take. Each person is different. Some take years to discern. Others know almost instantly. You need to do what is best for you and your situation in life. The best way to start is to acquire a spiritual director and develop a good prayer life. The Liturgy of the Hours and daily (or weekly) Adoration is a good way to pray. Here is a free website about the LOTH:

universalis.com/

Or you can buy the 4-volume set or the book called “Short Christian Prayer.”

If you are interested in a community, get in touch with their vocational director. They are trained in how to help discerners.

I hope this helps.

P.S.–I just saw that you were a catechumen. Most religious communities and third orders require that you wait at least 2-3 years after being received into full communion with the Church before seriously discerning to make sure that what you are experiencing is not “newbie zeal.” Some waive this, but it’s pretty well known that you must wait for a period. Just thought I’d give a heads up.

 

[Mike_SFO_1]

DaughterOfMary06 is completely right. They are two very different vocations. You could however become a 3rd Order member and then become a Parish Priest or Deacon. Leaving one order for another would be more difficult.

Peace,

Mike

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Find a spiritual director to help you through your discernment.

 

[jimcav]

Here is a very nice site that might help in your journey of discernment -

religious-vocation.com/index.html

I also would wait on joining a third order until you are sure whether you have a religious calling or not. Joining a third order is a pretty big commitment both to the order and to God. You might consider joing a confraternity, which is an association of the pious that come together in prayer and service. Many orders have them so you can share in the charism of the order, but not be tied by vows or promises. It is a looser association and you would have no trouble moving into a consecrated religious life from one like you might have from a third order.

Also, take the time to learn about all of the different orders that are out there. There are alot of them and they all have their own rules, spirituality and charisms. See which one fits your personality and gifts.

God Bless you on your discernment and please, relax and enjoy the journey, because there is so much to learn and explore in our faith!

 

[plato3]

Welcome home. May God bless you as you become baptized into the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. In the Third Order Secular Franciscans, a person can become a priest or permanent deacon and still remain a SFO. Third Orders give you a charism and spitituality that might help you decide later on, if you do not feel called at this time. We also had a member who became a nun, who went into a non-franciscan community and so was dispensed from her promises to the Franciscan Order.

 

[JReducation]

What the Church wants people to remember is that Secular Orders are real orders. They are not clubs or societies such as the Legion of Mary. They involve a lifetime commitment to live according to a rule of life, constitutions and the charism and vision of the religious family to which they are attached. Therefore, they should never be used as a stepping stone. In other words, you don’t become a Secular Carmelite while you prepare yourself to become a Carmelite nun or friar. That is an abuse of the Secular Order.

That being said, there are times when God calls people out of their present setting into a new one. Sometimes religious are called out of the conventual life to the secular order. Other times God calls secular members of an order to move into a conventual life. An excellent example of this is Mother Teresa. She was a religious in a religious congregation. She was called out of there to a society, the Missionaries of Charity. A society and a religious congregation are not canonically the same thing. Each has a unique place in the life of the Church and the graces that flow from each charism are different, but necessary for the life of the Church.

The same thing happens with secular orders. They have their own charism and the graces that flow into the Church through them are different from those that flow through religious congregations and religious orders, but they are necessary graces. These orders are truly founded by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they must be treated with the greatest respect and be understood as authentic expressions of a particular spirituality: Franciscan, Carmelite, Dominican, etc.

Finally, men in secular orders can become secular clerics and remain part of the order. Pope Pius X was a Secular Francisan, so was Pope Leo XIII, Pius XII and John XXIII. Pope Paul VI was a Lay Dominican. These men are truly Franciscans and Dominicans. A secular is not less of a member of a religious family. They are a different arm of that family.

Canon law does not allow you to belong to two religious families. Therefore, you cannot be a Secular Franciscan and Secular Carmelite or a Secular Franciscan and Carmelite Friar. Each of these families requires an undivided commitment to live according to their rule and spirit. They require obedience to the rule and statutes of the order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[soularpowered]

Discernment is a process of life that hopefully continues our whole life. The biggest help in discerning our place in God’s plan is to do an assesment of the talents and natural skills God has given you. Living as a member of the Body of Christ is not so much about what we do for God as it is about what God does for us. Learning what our gifts and talents are gives the direction of service we are to take. Our vocations whatever they may be will always be a matter of passing on to the community the gifts God first gave us. For instance if you have a talent for teaching that will be the gift you have to share with others. All the courses you have been guided to take in college would be passed on to benefit those who for whatever reason were not blessed with the same education. Following Jesus is really very simple. We do as He did and all will be well. Wherever you are called to serve God will lead you through the power of His Holy Spirit. All anyone needs is a willing heart and a mind open to His word to you. Peace and All Good always.
Soularpowered SFO

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t know that everything other posters like Daughter have suggested is always correct.

also “third order” is a loose term. Do you mean a secular association of lay persons affliated with a religious order such as Benedictine Oblates? We have members who are currently discerning vocations, two who have since entered seminary, two who have since entered religious life, and 3 former nuns. We also have 2 diocesan priests as oblates, So we must not have any rule about that.

do you mean a third order such as Franciscan TORs, who include the Sisters in Toronto, Ohio, Fr. Michael Scanlon and plenty of other professed and ordained Franciscans. I don’t know the rules of Franciscan life but am not aware of any prohibition against a Secular Franciscan choosing priestly or religious life down the road.

If you are interested in any order, one of the best ways to get to know about their spirituality, life and work is through joinging their secular association.

What neither a lay nor professed person should do is associate with two different orders. If you choose Carmelite for instance you stay in that association. A professed Carmelite would not join the secular association of the Dominicans or Franciscans, for instance. Plenty of lay people do jump from one to another, which is discouraged strongly, but there is no canonical penalty. It means they never properly discerned the spirituality and their own place in either. For that matter, some religous “switch” orders, but I believe they need permission and good reason to do so.

 

[JReducation]

also “third order” is a loose term. Do you mean a secular association of lay persons affliated with a religious order such as Benedictine Oblates? We have members who are currently discerning vocations, two who have since entered seminary, two who have since entered religious life, and 3 former nuns. We also have 2 diocesan priests as oblates, So we must not have any rule about that.

do you mean a third order such as Franciscan TORs, who include the Sisters in Toronto, Ohio, Fr. Michael Scanlon and plenty of other professed and ordained Franciscans. I don’t know the rules of Franciscan life but am not aware of any prohibition against a Secular Franciscan choosing priestly or religious life down the road.

.

Secular Orders are not associations that are connected to a religious order. They are not oblates either. They are real orders that are canonically erected by the Hoy See. I believe that the Secular Franciscan Order (SFO) is probably the most structured, because it is the oldest; but I could be wrong on that. They are not attached to the friars in any way or to the nuns. The Franciscan Third Order is an independent canonical order with its own rule of life written by St. Francis and its own constitutions approved by the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, just like any order of frias, nuns, monks, sisters or brothers.

They do have a lengthy formation period and go through all the steps of postulancy, novitiate, temporary profession and perpetuial profession. The only clerics that are allowed to join the Franciscan Seculars are diocesan clerics, because they do not belong to any religious community. Canon law does not allow a Secular Franciscan to leave without the proper dispensation after he or she has made perpetual profession. They must apply to the Major Superior to permission to leave, which is usually the Regional Minister. They also have their own Minister General in Rome, just like each of the orders of friars and nuns do. If a Secular Franciscan wants to join another order, there is a canonical process that he or she must go through to do so. No order or congregation may accept a Secular Franciscan until he or she has been released from the SFO. I have seen it happen in my own community. Three of our brothers were Secular Franciscans. No one gives you a hard time about it. It’s just that you can’t decide to join another order without going through the proper process.

The Third Order Regular (TOR) is the other branch of the Secular Franciscan Order. They are the friars branch. They were originally a group of Secular Franciscans who wanted to live the conventual life. Pope Gregory IX gave them permission to do so and called them Regulars. That’s how they got that name. But they follow the same rule as the Secular Franciscan Order. There is only one rule for the Franciscan Third Order. It’s called the Rule for the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. The TORs have their own Regional Ministers and their own Minister General. They also have their own constitutions which interprets the rule in a manner that allows them to live the conventual life. All that being said, this is a separate order from the Friars Minor that St. Francis also founded and to which he belonged. The Friars Minor have their own rule and their own government given to them by St. Francis as well. Then there are the Poor Clares who also have their own rule and their own government. But all three orders have the same spiritual father who is the law giver and the model.

I believe that the Dominicans have a similar infrastructure; but I may be wrong. I don’t think that the Secular Carmelites have autonomy. I think that they are governed by the friars and follow the rule of St. Albert as do the Carmelite Friars.

As to priests, in the Franciscan family it’s up to the Minister to decide whether you have a vocation to Holy Orders. You may have a vocation to the Franciscan life, either as a friar or a secular, but not have a vocation to Holy Orders. Therefore, you are not allowed to enter any Franciscan community with the intent of being a priest. You enter with the intent of being a Franciscan. You communicate your desire to be a priest, but you must submit to obedience and let the major superior call you to ordination, if he believes this is Christ’s will. His voice is final. It cannot be appealed. You can find yourself in final vows, committed to the Franciscan life and communnity until death and never be ordained. This rarely happens, because as you go through the formation program your vocation to the priesthood is always being discerned by you and the superior. Usually, before you make final vows, you have an idea of whether or not you will be allowed to be ordained. But there have been some surprises.

With the Secular Franciscans this is a little different, because the only clerics who can join are diocesan. These men are called to Holy Orders by the local bishop, not the Minsiter of the community. The idea in Francis mind was to keep the order as secular as possible, while at the same time giving it a religious form of government and life that can be lived in the secular world.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[popsep]

What the Church wants people to remember is that Secular Orders are real orders. They are not clubs or societies such as the Legion of Mary. They involve a lifetime commitment to live according to a rule of life, constitutions and the charism and vision of the religious family to which they are attached. Therefore, they should never be used as a stepping stone. In other words, you don’t become a Secular Carmelite while you prepare yourself to become a Carmelite nun or friar. That is an abuse of the Secular Order.

That being said, there are times when God calls people out of their present setting into a new one. Sometimes religious are called out of the conventual life to the secular order. Other times God calls secular members of an order to move into a conventual life. An excellent example of this is Mother Teresa. She was a religious in a religious congregation. She was called out of there to a society, the Missionaries of Charity. A society and a religious congregation are not canonically the same thing. Each has a unique place in the life of the Church and the graces that flow from each charism are different, but necessary for the life of the Church.

The same thing happens with secular orders. They have their own charism and the graces that flow into the Church through them are different from those that flow through religious congregations and religious orders, but they are necessary graces. These orders are truly founded by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they must be treated with the greatest respect and be understood as authentic expressions of a particular spirituality: Franciscan, Carmelite, Dominican, etc.

Finally, men in secular orders can become secular clerics and remain part of the order. Pope Pius X was a Secular Francisan, so was Pope Leo XIII, Pius XII and John XXIII. Pope Paul VI was a Lay Dominican. These men are truly Franciscans and Dominicans. A secular is not less of a member of a religious family. They are a different arm of that family.

Canon law does not allow you to belong to two religious families. Therefore, you cannot be a Secular Franciscan and Secular Carmelite or a Secular Franciscan and Carmelite Friar. Each of these families requires an undivided commitment to live according to their rule and spirit. They require obedience to the rule and statutes of the order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Great but what about this:
I have had trouble to get in to an order because I am 58. But that didn’t stop our Lord from calling us. Now if men over , 35, 45, 50 all cut off ages, become a third order and take vows then live in community and call it a semi cloister, (They my have to work and come back) can they wear a habit. they would live on there own money. We would do and act just as a real cloister, monastery, or abbey. ( for prayers) What do you think?

 

[popsep]

Secular Orders are not associations that are connected to a religious order. They are not oblates either. They are real orders that are canonically erected by the Hoy See. I believe that the Secular Franciscan Order (SFO) is probably the most structured, because it is the oldest; but I could be wrong on that. They are not attached to the friars in any way or to the nuns. The Franciscan Third Order is an independent canonical order with its own rule of life written by St. Francis and its own constitutions approved by the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, just like any order of frias, nuns, monks, sisters or brothers.

They do have a lengthy formation period and go through all the steps of postulancy, novitiate, temporary profession and perpetuial profession. The only clerics that are allowed to join the Franciscan Seculars are diocesan clerics, because they do not belong to any religious community. Canon law does not allow a Secular Franciscan to leave without the proper dispensation after he or she has made perpetual profession. They must apply to the Major Superior to permission to leave, which is usually the Regional Minister. They also have their own Minister General in Rome, just like each of the orders of friars and nuns do. If a Secular Franciscan wants to join another order, there is a canonical process that he or she must go through to do so. No order or congregation may accept a Secular Franciscan until he or she has been released from the SFO. I have seen it happen in my own community. Three of our brothers were Secular Franciscans. No one gives you a hard time about it. It’s just that you can’t decide to join another order without going through the proper process.

The Third Order Regular (TOR) is the other branch of the Secular Franciscan Order. They are the friars branch. They were originally a group of Secular Franciscans who wanted to live the conventual life. Pope Gregory IX gave them permission to do so and called them Regulars. That’s how they got that name. But they follow the same rule as the Secular Franciscan Order. There is only one rule for the Franciscan Third Order. It’s called the Rule for the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. The TORs have their own Regional Ministers and their own Minister General. They also have their own constitutions which interprets the rule in a manner that allows them to live the conventual life. All that being said, this is a separate order from the Friars Minor that St. Francis also founded and to which he belonged. The Friars Minor have their own rule and their own government given to them by St. Francis as well. Then there are the Poor Clares who also have their own rule and their own government. But all three orders have the same spiritual father who is the law giver and the model.

I believe that the Dominicans have a similar infrastructure; but I may be wrong. I don’t think that the Secular Carmelites have autonomy. I think that they are governed by the friars and follow the rule of St. Albert as do the Carmelite Friars.

As to priests, in the Franciscan family it’s up to the Minister to decide whether you have a vocation to Holy Orders. You may have a vocation to the Franciscan life, either as a friar or a secular, but not have a vocation to Holy Orders. Therefore, you are not allowed to enter any Franciscan community with the intent of being a priest. You enter with the intent of being a Franciscan. You communicate your desire to be a priest, but you must submit to obedience and let the major superior call you to ordination, if he believes this is Christ’s will. His voice is final. It cannot be appealed. You can find yourself in final vows, committed to the Franciscan life and communnity until death and never be ordained. This rarely happens, because as you go through the formation program your vocation to the priesthood is always being discerned by you and the superior. Usually, before you make final vows, you have an idea of whether or not you will be allowed to be ordained. But there have been some surprises.

With the Secular Franciscans this is a little different, because the only clerics who can join are diocesan. These men are called to Holy Orders by the local bishop, not the Minsiter of the community. The idea in Francis mind was to keep the order as secular as possible, while at the same time giving it a religious form of government and life that can be lived in the secular world.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Good Then could you help me with this:

I have had trouble to get in to an order because I am 58. But that didn’t stop our Lord from calling us. Now if men over , 35, 45, 50 all cut off ages, become a third order and take vows then live in community and call it a semi cloister, (They my have to work and come back) can they wear a habit. they would live on there own money. We would do and act just as a real cloister, monastery, or abbey. ( for prayers) What do you think? Or what can I do?!