This bothers me about Catholics

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The apparently heavy consumption of alcohol / smoking.

Last night I was at our end-of-year choir party. (I LOVE my very traditional choir and I LOVE my very orthodox parish) and some people - people I like - were basically bragging about consuming alcohol, getting drunk, having hangovers, etc. Fortunately in my hearing nobody bragged about driving drunk; fortunately. I have heard such bragging among non-religious people. These people were very smart professionals, not college kids. I just wish I had not even gone to this party and not found out.

This is so disgusting, in my opinion. It reminds me of my silly efforts to try to hang out with my worldly peers long ago, how I never found anything in common with anyone until I started looking for specifically Christian and then Catholic groups.

I don’t smoke and I don’t drink, and I’m not going to start either, and for these reasons I often feel out of place as a Catholic. Sometimes I wish we had rules like Mormons do, or Baptists do, about drinking and smoking. I don’t believe anything but the Catholic faith to be true, so I wouldn’t join either of these groups. I just don’t understand why … Yes, I know about the wedding at Cana, and I have no interest in judging anyone.

I remember also meeting an 18 year old at a class I was taking once who was from a very devout Catholic family with a lot of kids. Her dad drank and smoke a lot, and she described him as slowly “losing his mind.” She had tried talking to him but he believed God was just fine with it. I wouldn’t blame her if this drove her away from the faith, I could sense it wasn’t helping.

Please, please,someone tell me I’m not in the wrong faith.
 
You realize that drunkeness is a mortal sin, right? In fact, any sort of addiction that impairs your ability to act with full freedom is a sin (I’m not sure on the “venial” or “mortal” aspect of it). But I DO know that drunkeness is a mortal sin.

As far as I know smoking is not a sin, but it should be discouraged for the same reason everybody else discourages it-it’s incredibly unhealthy to you and anybody around you who inhales secondhand smoke. It is also addicting, making it very difficult to stop this unhealthy practice.

I’m not sure why you seem to think the Church encourages unhealthy or even sinful behaviors.

But anyway, as to deciding whether you’re in the right Church, all of this is largely irrelevant. Do you believe that the Catholic Church was instituted by Jesus and given divine infallibility on matters of faith and morals by the Holy Spirit? Because if you believe this, then nothing else matters at all. Religion is not about finding the system of beliefs most compatible with yours, it’s about figuring out what system of beliefs is True. If you believe the Church teaches the Truth, everything else is irrelevant.
 
I’m a bit confused. Were they actually drinking heavily and smoking at the party? Or were they just talking about their experiences with drinking too much? Was anybody at the party smoking or was it just the father of this girl you met?
 
Patrice: I’m sorry to have been so confusing. These were two separate instances. This girl I met years ago in another circumstance. I never met her dad. I felt that this girl was having to live with this huge contradiction. This party was just last night.

No they weren’t smoking. They were talking about other times when they had been drinking. They were drinking but no “effects” had shown up yet by the time I left. And I don’t want to say this group is a bad group. They’re not. That’s what confused me about the conversation.

Marc Anthony: Of course you’re right, nothing except believing that our Lord founded our Church is relevant. But if drunkenness is a mortal sin, why is it that otherwise good Catholics - people I’d really like to admire - would be OK with it?

There’s a couple of other examples I have, such as college students I met at who lived at an Opus Dei residence thinking it’s OK to lie about your age to get into a bar because the drinking age is, in their opinion, “stupid.” (this was quite awhile ago and I have no idea what these students think now).

Well, maybe it boils down to: I can’t really admire anybody but our Lord Jesus Christ and the saints, most of whom spent a lifetime trying to overcome their own faults. Even if someone appears to be bragging about getting drunk, it may be that the Holy Spirit hasn’t gotten to this part of their life yet, or maybe they do feel bad but don’t want to admit it. So I guess I answered my own question.
 
Blueberry said:
The apparently heavy consumption of alcohol / smoking.

Last night I was at our end-of-year choir party. (I LOVE my very traditional choir and I LOVE my very orthodox parish) and some people - people I like - were basically bragging about consuming alcohol, getting drunk, having hangovers, etc. Fortunately in my hearing nobody bragged about driving drunk; fortunately. I have heard such bragging among non-religious people. These people were very smart professionals, not college kids. I just wish I had not even gone to this party and not found out.

This is so disgusting, in my opinion. It reminds me of my silly efforts to try to hang out with my worldly peers long ago, how I never found anything in common with anyone until I started looking for specifically Christian and then Catholic groups.

I don’t smoke and I don’t drink, and I’m not going to start either, and for these reasons I often feel out of place as a Catholic. …
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It sounds to me that you may be out of place with this particular group of individuals, because I can assure you that being Catholic and being drinkers/smokers do not go hand in hand.
 
Unfortunately, there is a stereotype of Catholics that we are all heavy drinkers. Well, at least this stereotype seems to exist in my area. Perhaps it exists in the OP’s area as well? But anyway, I can assure you that orthodox Catholics do not get drunk on a regular basis as orthodox Catholics know that it is a grave sin to do so.
 
Catholics who are trying daily to live their faith do not talk about drunkeness and drinking as though it were okay.

Those Catholics who do…well let’s hope and pray that they become more mature in their faith.
 
Blueberry said:
Patrice: I’m sorry to have been so confusing. These were two separate instances. This girl I met years ago in another circumstance. I never met her dad. I felt that this girl was having to live with this huge contradiction. This party was just last night.

No they weren’t smoking. They were talking about other times when they had been drinking. They were drinking but no “effects” had shown up yet by the time I left. And I don’t want to say this group is a bad group. They’re not. That’s what confused me about the conversation.

Marc Anthony: Of course you’re right, nothing except believing that our Lord founded our Church is relevant. But if drunkenness is a mortal sin, why is it that otherwise good Catholics - people I’d really like to admire - would be OK with it?

There’s a couple of other examples I have, such as college students I met at who lived at an Opus Dei residence thinking it’s OK to lie about your age to get into a bar because the drinking age is, in their opinion, “stupid.” (this was quite awhile ago and I have no idea what these students think now).

Well, maybe it boils down to: I can’t really admire anybody but our Lord Jesus Christ and the saints, most of whom spent a lifetime trying to overcome their own faults. Even if someone appears to be bragging about getting drunk, it may be that the Holy Spirit hasn’t gotten to this part of their life yet, or maybe they do feel bad but don’t want to admit it. So I guess I answered my own question.
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While I agree smoking and drukeness are not good. Have you thought this maybe an ethnic thing more than a Catholic thing. Where I live all older parishes were founded by a particuler ethnicity. Some still are mostly that ethnicty today while some are not. I can tell you around Grand Rapids the Polish and the Irish are not about to giveup their beer for anyone. The Italians are not about to giveup their wine for anyone. Compared to other Christian denominations Catholics outside of Mass as well as at Mass are more tradition oriented than others. Traditions die hard, where I live they don’t die at all. Don’t sweat it.
 
Bragging about drinking, getting hungover, all the things described here are very immature for people who are “not college kids”.

These are symptoms of alcoholism-- they feel comfortable enough to brag about this around one another.

While I’m not sure how you could address this particular instance, let me assure you it is not a “Catholic thing”, it is old-fashioned peer pressure, and the only “-lic” is “alcoholic”.

I have never drank, though alcoholism is on both sides of my family. It gave me a headache so I’m fortunate that it was never a problem. Never saw why anyone would want to smoke, either. I recently found out that sugar is addictive, so it has been banished from my life. Some studies show all these “addictions” are physical, genetic, and related to sugar and it’s addictive qualities.

Stay true to yourself, stand up for what you believe. Don’t let this drive you away from your faith.
 
Dorothy said:
Catholics who are trying daily to live their faith do not talk about drunkeness and drinking as though it were okay.

Those Catholics who do…well let’s hope and pray that they become more mature in their faith.
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:confused:

Drinking *is *okay. Go ahead, call me immature. 😛
And judge the livelihood of my faith. :mad:

tee
 
tee_eff_em said:
:confused:

Drinking *is *okay. Go ahead, call me immature. 😛
And judge the livelihood of my faith. :mad:

tee
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I think drinking moderately is okay as well.

I was referring to those who brag about how much they can drink, etc.
 
You’re in the right place. Rest assured.

It’s unfortunate you had this experience with others, but I can show you just as many or more Catholics who know how to celebrate an event with a glass of wine or champagne. Then they know how to stop after having some. They’re demonstrating one of the 4 cardinal virtues; temperance.

The Church reveals the fullness of Truth. How well its members live that Truth varies from believer to believer.
 
I remember reading a study a few years ago which debunked the stereotype that Catholics drink more than other people.

Are you aware that many leading Catholic priests and laymen for centuries have campaigned against drunkenness, founded and joined societies promoting abstinence from alcohol, etc? It also used to be very common until a generation ago for young Catholics receiving Confirmation to simultaneously sign a pledge to abstain from alcohol until age 21, or in some cases 25.

The Church teaches that alcohol IN MODERATION is permissible and can even be a positive thing, but DRUNKENNESS, especially setting out deliberately to become drunk, is a grave sin, because just like getting intoxicated with any other drug, it diminishes or removes our God-given intellectual capacity to distinguish right from wrong and often leads to all manner of other grave sins.

I have never before heard any claim that Catholics smoke more than non-Catholics and I think this is preposterous. As said above this is an ethnic thing not a Catholic thing. If you think the Southern Europeans smoke a lot, check out the Indonesians, Thais and Chinese, among whom nearly all the men seem to smoke almost constantly.
 
aspawloski4th said:
While I agree smoking and drukeness are not good. Have you thought this maybe an ethnic thing more than a Catholic thing. Where I live all older parishes were founded by a particuler ethnicity. Some still are mostly that ethnicty today while some are not. I can tell you around Grand Rapids the Polish and the Irish are not about to giveup their beer for anyone. The Italians are not about to giveup their wine for anyone. Compared to other Christian denominations Catholics outside of Mass as well as at Mass are more tradition oriented than others. Traditions die hard, where I live they don’t die at all. Don’t sweat it.
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I think there is a lot to this. Much of the U.S. (including where I live) is populated by Scots-Irish protestants. Both drinking and not drinking are cultural with them. From the religious standpoint, it’s considered very sinful. But it may be observed that alcoholism is a very big problem among Scots-Irish, or can be, for genetic reasons, and some have felt the non-drinking as a religious/cultural thing is related to catastrophe prevention.

But it’s also winked at. When doing heavy labor in the summer in the country, I will sometimes drink beer when I’m finished. It’s amazing how many Baptists come around to drink with me. Being Catholic as I am, they have frankly admitted that I’m “safe” to drink with, because I don’t care if they drink and won’t go telling it around their churches.

Lutherans also have the same reputation, if not an even bigger one than Catholics, for drinking. Likely that has something to do with being Lutheran, but probably more with being German, which they virtually all are.

When it comes to Catholic drinking, though, you rarely see a drunk Italian. They are culturally accustomed to moderate drinking. Also, Mediterraneans have a physiologic reaction to alcohol that is different from that of Celts. Interestingly, I read that the greatest incidence of alcoholism in Poland is in the region called Galizia (sp), which is named after the “Gauls” or Celts. Interesting that some Poles are largely Celtic, but they are. The same is true in Galicia in Spain and Galatea in Turkey.
 
Do you know what bothers me? Its posts like this 😦 …

Catholic now … However, in my over half a centuray past … I was baptized originally in the Chruch of Christ … attended Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian and Methodist Churches, Assembly of God and various “Bible”, Non-denominational and Fundamentalist Churches …

So my young friend … let me clue you in … every Church has those who drink too much, or who might succomb to braggadacio about varous events … Those Baptists and Mormons [and Chruch of Christ] whose faith actively discourages drinking any alcoholic drinks [beer, wine, whiskey,etc] have members who drink … some drink in moderation and some drink to excess …

Catholics are no more prone to drink [moderately or to excess] then any other faith or non believer … perhaps they might suffer more guilt 🤷 over such conduct …

And our clergy are no more likely to be an alcoholic either …

SADLY >>>> Sin is an equal opportunity activity … :mad:

Since this was a Church celebration of your service in the Choir and arguably these were fellow parishioners, Brothers and Sisters in Christ - Why did you not address this with them - directly Why come to a forum and castigate Catholics in general? … Smearing the entire Church …well except for yourself of course and those who chimed in - defending their catholicity and sobriety :rolleyes: …

You did your cohorts a dis-service to not speak to them of what you heard and its affect … perhaps they don’t realize how it sounds and the sitness it is providing to those within ear shot? … and just perhaps you mis-understood what you were hearing 😉 … One thing is certain - poor communication is at the heart of most human interactions …

Try it sometime … honestly speaking up - with humility and charity … and love for your fellow man in your heart 👍
 
Ridgerunner said:
it may be observed that alcoholism is a very big problem among Scots-Irish, or can be, for genetic reasons, and some have felt the non-drinking as a religious/cultural thing is related to catastrophe prevention.

Lutherans also have the same reputation, if not an even bigger one than Catholics, for drinking. Likely that has something to do with being Lutheran, but probably more with being German, which they virtually all are.

When it comes to Catholic drinking, though, you rarely see a drunk Italian. They are culturally accustomed to moderate drinking. Also, Mediterraneans have a physiologic reaction to alcohol that is different from that of Celts. Interestingly, I read that the greatest incidence of alcoholism in Poland is in the region called Galizia (sp), which is named after the “Gauls” or Celts. Interesting that some Poles are largely Celtic, but they are. The same is true in Galicia in Spain and Galatea in Turkey.
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I don’t think much of your genetic theories. How do you explain that the world’s highest incidence of alcoholism is in Russia? Russians and Poles are genetically closely related, both of North-East Slavic race.
 
tee_eff_em said:
:confused:

Drinking *is *okay. Go ahead, call me immature. 😛
And judge the livelihood of my faith. :mad:

tee
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There’s a difference between moderate consumption of alcohol and drunkeness.

Moderate drinking = OK.

Drunkeness = mortal sin.

There’s a difference between 2 beers in an hour and 20 beers in that same hour. Besides wanting to RUN to the bathroom.
 
Does this mean I have to go to confession for having been a bartender for many years?😛

While I can understand the OP being uneasy about the conversations she overheard about peoples previous drinking, but I have to wonder about the context.

Were they bragging, or just relaying old funny stories? Were they events that happened in their younger days, or was it something that happened last week?

As far as her friend thinking it was cool to lie about their age in order to get served. That isn’t funny or cool no matter how you look at it. In our state, if a bartender gets caught serving someon underage, it is a $500.00 fine for the bartender, then there a fines for the bar itself.
 
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