This bothers me about Catholics

[tee_eff_em]

There’s a difference between moderate consumption of alcohol and drunkeness.

Yes, that is why I posted: Because I thought it erroneous when someone stated
Catholics who are trying daily to live their faith do not talk about drunkeness and drinking as though it were okay.
in the same way that I would have found it erroneous had someone stated
*Catholics who are trying daily to live their faith do not talk about *pummeling people with baseball bats *and *owning baseball bats as though it were okay.

Does that make sense?

tee
FTR: I believe that owning a baseball bat is okay.

 

[puzzleannie]

The apparently heavy consumption of alcohol / smoking.

Please, please,someone tell me I’m not in the wrong faith.

headline is wrong, it should read “what bothers me about some, not all, members of my choir, and the dad of one of my friends, who happen to be Catholic, is their apparetly heavy consumption of alcohol and smoking?”

I really don’t think you are so naive to think that because some people behave badly and brag about it, that the behavior is characteristic of every member of every group those person belong to.

news flash: not everything you personally don’t indulge in is by definition a sin

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t think much of your genetic theories. How do you explain that the world’s highest incidence of alcoholism is in Russia? Russians and Poles are genetically closely related, both of North-East Slavic race.

Not all Poles are Slavic in “origin”.

Not my genetic theory, either. I read it in a study of alcoholism by an organization called the Schick-Shadel Institute, which runs a fairly well-regarded alcoholism treatment center. It involves something called the “wash-down reflex”, which is normally a method of cooling the body when sweating doesn’t do it. I didn’t do the study, and there may be critical comments made of it. But some of what it said seems observable.

I certainly don’t discount the effects of culture or environment. I recall a professor of mine who had long ago been a Russian translator, who commented on the drinking habits of Russians. It was his observation that Russians characteristically drink for one purpose only, and that’s to get as drunk as possible as quickly as possible. Numerous commentators, including Russians, have said the same thing. I recall reading one book by a Russian who commented that life in Russia is so depressing and so gloomy that there is an expression called “putting some pink in the day” with alcohol. That suggests, of course, a cultural effect of an environmental influence.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I think there is a lot to this. Much of the U.S. (including where I live) is populated by Scots-Irish protestants. Both drinking and not drinking are cultural with them. From the religious standpoint, it’s considered very sinful. But it may be observed that alcoholism is a very big problem among Scots-Irish, or can be, for genetic reasons, and some have felt the non-drinking as a religious/cultural thing is related to catastrophe prevention.

But it’s also winked at. When doing heavy labor in the summer in the country, I will sometimes drink beer when I’m finished. It’s amazing how many Baptists come around to drink with me. Being Catholic as I am, they have frankly admitted that I’m “safe” to drink with, because I don’t care if they drink and won’t go telling it around their churches.

Lutherans also have the same reputation, if not an even bigger one than Catholics, for drinking. Likely that has something to do with being Lutheran, but probably more with being German, which they virtually all are.

When it comes to Catholic drinking, though, you rarely see a drunk Italian. They are culturally accustomed to moderate drinking. Also, Mediterraneans have a physiologic reaction to alcohol that is different from that of Celts. Interestingly, I read that the greatest incidence of alcoholism in Poland is in the region called Galizia (sp), which is named after the “Gauls” or Celts. Interesting that some Poles are largely Celtic, but they are. The same is true in Galicia in Spain and Galatea in Turkey.

Interesting you mention Celts. Ireland has the highest percentage of alcoholics in Europe, but Ireland also has the highest percentage of teatotallers in Europe also.

 

[cmscms]

To the OP, I understand that there are certain behaviours that can annoy someone more than others. There are certain sins I am never tempted to do and others I struggle with constantly. So when I see someone commit a sin I would never care to do, it is easy for me to wish those people didn’t exist. However, that is where a Catholic realises ‘I am not being loving, I should thank God for not giving me that temptation and pray to God to let me know if/how I should help the sinner’

Now about drinking and smoking. Done in moderation, neither are a sin. To brag about it can easily flip into immaturity. If a man spends his money on a pack of cigarettes and then there is no money to buy his kids school supplies, it is a sin. But to have a smoke to relax is no worse than treating yourself to a chocolate bar in God’s eyes.

In society’s eyes, smoking has become a ‘horrible thing’ and there is an assumption that Catholics should not do it. Well, I know a lot of priest who smoke publicly without shame. It is not a sin.

As for the argument ‘We now know the unhealthy effects of smoking’. True, but it still does not make smoking in moderation a sin. Jesus has ALWAYS know the effects of smoking and (correct me if I am wrong) he NEVER told anyone ‘don’t smoke it is a sin’

Back to the original OP. The church is full of sinners and everywhere you go, you will find them

CM

 

[Petergee]

Interesting you mention Celts. Ireland has the highest percentage of alcoholics in Europe, but Ireland also has the highest percentage of teatotallers in Europe also.

Russia has the highest percentage of alcoholics in Europe (and the world), followed I believe by Belarus and Ukraine.
Possibly Ireland has the highest percetage of people who have done an AA program and admitted that they are alcoholics and done something about it.

 

[Petergee]

Now about drinking and smoking. Done in moderation, neither are a sin. To brag about it can easily flip into immaturity. If a man spends his money on a pack of cigarettes and then there is no money to buy his kids school supplies, it is a sin. But to have a smoke to relax is no worse than treating yourself to a chocolate bar in God’s eyes.

In society’s eyes, smoking has become a ‘horrible thing’ and there is an assumption that Catholics should not do it. Well, I know a lot of priest who smoke publicly without shame. It is not a sin.

As for the argument ‘We now know the unhealthy effects of smoking’. True, but it still does not make smoking in moderation a sin.

I don’t think you can declare this so absolutely. Yes there is no shame in smoking, especially as it is so addictive that although most smokers want to quit but they have not. Also most smokers took up smoking due to peer pressure when young.
However it IS a sin to deliberately seriously endanger one’s health for a frivolous reason. It is at least arguable that it would be a sin for someone to take up smoking to help him relax, knowing the likely effects on his health and without being pressured into doing it.

Similarly I it is at least arguable that every smoker has a moral duty to make reasonable attempts, according to his individual circumstances, to try to quit smoking. Just as we are morally obliged to look after our bodies by trying to eat a healthy diet, getting sufficient exercise etc.

Jesus has ALWAYS know the effects of smoking and (correct me if I am wrong) he NEVER told anyone ‘don’t smoke it is a sin’

That is simply because He never met a smoker. Smoking and tobacco were unknown outside the Americas until Columbus sailed there.

 

[Miss_Linda]

Blueberry, I just wanted to post a quick message of sympathy and solidarity. I would have been appalled and very disappointed if I had gone to a Catholic social gathering and heard people bragging about being drunk. I hope you can find other friends in your Church who also seek to live a pure, holy lifestyle. I have never indulged in alcohol and certainly not indulged in tobacco products, and would have been shocked to hear of such intemperate behavior by others in a Church social group to which I belong.

No, you are not alone in your feelings on this matter! :hug3: