This ever happen to you at Mass?

[Bishopite]

A few weeks ago, my family and I went to Mass at a parish near my in-laws being we were visiting them. The parish is made up of 95% of vacationers and many of them are apparently from parishes that hold hands during the Our Father (my family doesn’t, no we aren’t rude but it isn’t called for in the rubrics of the Mass). We also kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) at my parish, to the end of communion, this parish stands. I don’t mind of people stand, but I choose to kneel. Unkown to me at this time was that this bothered a few people behind us, however that it bothered them doesn’t matter, I didn’t nor don’t care.
After the final blessing one of my children didn’t bow her head as the Priest ask so I gently (and yes I mean gently) touched her head to remind her that she should bow her head as the Priest asked. As I did this I heard them saying…did you see what he just did to her? (as though I was harming or physically abusing her at Mass). It was at that time I put two and two together of all that we did which apparently bothered her. As we were leaving Mass I genuflected at the end of the pew, got up and looked right at this elderly woman who just looked at me and shook her head back and forth. Let me tell you, that I was angry in my heart, but my lips were closed and since she said nothing, I said nothing. But I must admit that I was guilty of the sin of anger in my heart at her and the other gossipers for butting into my personal family business.

Have you ever experienced anything like this?

 

[zzuftnnyl]

Do you really think the people were annoyed at you? You never really know what people are thinking and it is easy to put negative thoughts into their head. Maybe she was just thinking your children were cute. I find myself watching sweet kids at church and I sure hope I’m not unintentionally giving “The Stare”. I have a 3 year old daughter and I know “The Stare” well from fellow airplane passengers. Maybe when you tapped your daughter to bow her head, they though it was sweet to see parents trying to teach their kids to be good! Just an idea. I guess if she really shook her head back and forth at you, then your interpretation is probably right. But, I don’t understand it.

I attend a VERY liberal parish. We hold hands, don’t kneel and we even have liturgical daners once in a while. And there are always a few people at Mass who kneel or don’t hold hands, etc… I’m not bothered in the least. Truth be known, I’m secretly wishing we could all kneel! And I’m actually relieved when somebody doesn’t make a move to hold my hand. Thank goodness I think! LOL.

Anyhow, maybe you are right with what the other people were thinking, but it is probably better to just give them the benefit of the doubt.

Oh, and if you can figure out how to not feel angry at people… let me know. I always assume that people who go when it is my turn at a stop sign are completly doing it on purpose because they think I’m a putz! Then once in a while I make an mistake and am spaced out, my daughter is shrieking in the back of the car, and I proceed at the stop sign. Then I wonder “oops was it really my turn?” Uh-oh!!!

I’m not helping, am I? Sorry. Oh, maybe she had Alzheimer’s and was irrationally cranky due to that.

Lina

 

[Lorrie]

I haven’t experienced exactly what you did but I, of course, have had a touch of anger during Mass on more than one occasion. My most recent bout with anger consisted of a crying 6 year old getting upset because he ran out of Cheerios (screaming at the top of his lungs that he wanted more and this was during the consecration). Why did I get angry? Because the parents did absolutely nothing about it, they simply let him scream with no thought of the other people there.

As for someone “calling out” other people’s gestures (or lack there of) during the Mass, I don’t see the reason for it. Why should your genuflecting effect someone else? And then for that person to literally shake their head after you do it, unreal. People truly never cease to amaze me.

 

[blessedtoo]

Please take my comments in the good spirit in which they are offered.
I have a problem with the way you’ve stated this:

Unkown to me at this time was that this bothered a few people behind us, however that it bothered them doesn’t matter, I didn’t nor don’t care.

It appears arrogant. That may not be your intention but when you assume that your behavior is bothering people without any proof to back up the claim, it seems like you are making yourself the focus of their Mass experience. It may well be the case, but to be honest, I probably wouldn’t have even entertained such a thought unless the people tapped me on the shoulder and told me to my face that they were annoyed. It also appears uncharitable to say “I didn’t nor don’t care.” Folks (like myself) who cherish their faithful and orthodox Parishes are probably not too fond of “outsiders” who come on Sunday and bring with them all their liturgical innovations. We hope that visitors will respect the way Mass is said at our Church. Why wouldn’t you extend that same charity to others? There are some Bishops who have instructed the faithful to stand during the Eucharistic Prayer. If this Church was under this instruction, perhaps the Parishioners felt you were the innovator.

As I did this I heard them saying…did you see what he just did to her? (as though I was harming or physically abusing her at Mass). It was at that time I put two and two together of all that we did which apparently bothered her. As we were leaving Mass I genuflected at the end of the pew, got up and looked right at this elderly woman who just looked at me and shook her head back and forth

It sounds like you had a chip on your shoulder through this whole Mass. I can’t imagine in what situation I might actually overhear someone saying something about me during the Mass. Unless I was listening for it. And by looking the woman right in the eye, you were provoking a response from her.

Whenever I attend a different or new Parish I too am filled with anxiety about how the Mass will be celebrated. So I understand that we can often be hyper-sensitive about these things. But I think it’s important to keep the focus where it belongs.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

A few weeks ago, my family and I went to Mass at a parish near my in-laws being we were visiting them. The parish is made up of 95% of vacationers and many of them are apparently from parishes that hold hands during the Our Father (my family doesn’t, no we aren’t rude but it isn’t called for in the rubrics of the Mass). We also kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) at my parish, to the end of communion, this parish stands. I don’t mind of people stand, but I choose to kneel. Unkown to me at this time was that this bothered a few people behind us, however that it bothered them doesn’t matter, I didn’t nor don’t care.
After the final blessing one of my children didn’t bow her head as the Priest ask so I gently (and yes I mean gently) touched her head to remind her that she should bow her head as the Priest asked. As I did this I heard them saying…did you see what he just did to her? (as though I was harming or physically abusing her at Mass). It was at that time I put two and two together of all that we did which apparently bothered her. As we were leaving Mass I genuflected at the end of the pew, got up and looked right at this elderly woman who just looked at me and shook her head back and forth. Let me tell you, that I was angry in my heart, but my lips were closed and since she said nothing, I said nothing. But I must admit that I was guilty of the sin of anger in my heart at her and the other gossipers for butting into my personal family business.

Have you ever experienced anything like this?

I visit several different parishes over the year. It is very important for parishes especially in vacation spots to clearly communicate what the Bishops directives are (for those postures he is authorized to direct). I watch very carefully after the Lamb of God the others from the parish to see if they will continue to stand or kneel, and do likewise with the majority. I kneel where it is specified and may or may not hold hands, I have no problem either way. I will not “request” someone else’s hand, but will take one if offered to me. Simple solution. I bow at the proper words of the Creed and kneel after returning from Holy Communion. Bottom line it is necessary for the parish to somehow communicate to visitors what this parish does where differences are allowed. It’s almost like going up to receive Holy Communion you just follow what the locals do, within reason. If everyone was genuflecting before receiving. I probably would not, only because I most likely could not get back up easily without something to hold on to, and the head bow is what is called for by the USCCB.

 

[Bishopite]

Do you really think the people were annoyed at you?

Yes, I heard them saying "did you SEE (inflection included) what HE did to HER?

You never really know what people are thinking and it is easy to put negative thoughts into their head. Maybe she was just thinking your children were cute. I find myself watching sweet kids at church and I sure hope I’m not unintentionally giving “The Stare”. I have a 3 year old daughter and I know “The Stare” well from fellow airplane passengers. Maybe when you tapped your daughter to bow her head, they though it was sweet to see parents trying to teach their kids to be good! Just an idea. I guess if she really shook her head back and forth at you, then your interpretation is probably right. But, I don’t understand it.

I attend a VERY liberal parish. We hold hands, don’t kneel and we even have liturgical daners once in a while. And there are always a few people at Mass who kneel or don’t hold hands, etc… I’m not bothered in the least. Truth be known, I’m secretly wishing we could all kneel! And I’m actually relieved when somebody doesn’t make a move to hold my hand. Thank goodness I think! LOL.

Anyhow, maybe you are right with what the other people were thinking, but it is probably better to just give them the benefit of the doubt.

Oh, and if you can figure out how to not feel angry at people… let me know. I always assume that people who go when it is my turn at a stop sign are completly doing it on purpose because they think I’m a putz! Then once in a while I make an mistake and am spaced out, my daughter is shrieking in the back of the car, and I proceed at the stop sign. Then I wonder “oops was it really my turn?” Uh-oh!!!

I’m not helping, am I? Sorry. Oh, maybe she had Alzheimer’s and was irrationally cranky due to that.

Lina

Although I’m far from Sainthood and a great sinner, I usually give people the benefit of doubt, bu I heard what they said and it was in an agry tone, so at that point I could tell that we were annoying them.

 

[Bishopite]

[blessedtoo;2629408]Please take my comments in the good spirit in which they are offered.
I have a problem with the way you’ve stated this:

It appears arrogant. That may not be your intention but when you assume that your behavior is bothering people without any proof to back up the claim, it seems like you are making yourself the focus of their Mass experience.

Are words of condemnation proof enough? These women were saying words of condemnation, yet that makes me arrogant? Did you read my original post? I included that they “said” things and it was loud enough to hear.

It may well be the case, but to be honest, I probably wouldn’t have even entertained such a thought unless the people tapped me on the shoulder and told me to my face that they were annoyed. It also appears uncharitable to say “I didn’t nor don’t care.”

What I mean by “didn’t nor don’t care” is that I ultimately didn’t nor don’t care. When people hold hands at Mass (and some do at my parish) neither do I say words about them and behind them loud enough for them to hear, in fact, I don’t say anything at all. To not care isn’t always an uncharitable act if it is about little things that people do that don’t violate the validity of the Mass.

Folks (like myself) who cherish their faithful and orthodox Parishes are probably not too fond of “outsiders” who come on Sunday and bring with them all their liturgical innovations. We hope that visitors will respect the way Mass is said at our Church. Why wouldn’t you extend that same charity to others?

Did you actually read what I originally wrote? Of course I ALSO cherish orthodox parishes but does that mean I can hopp scotch down the aisle on my way to the Eucharist? No it doesn’t and I don’t say anything towards those who hold hands, so I AM extending charity towards them too.

There are some Bishops who have instructed the faithful to stand during the Eucharistic Prayer. If this Church was under this instruction, perhaps the Parishioners felt you were the innovator.

I’ve been to this parish many times and I know this, but if I want to kneel is that somehow worse than those who hold hands after the “Our Father?” and I don’t say anything to them, even though it shouldn’t be allowed, yet you are condemning me for over reacting and being uncharitable?

It sounds like you had a chip on your shoulder through this whole Mass. I can’t imagine in what situation I might actually overhear someone saying something about me during the Mass. Unless I was listening for it. And by looking the woman right in the eye, you were provoking a response from her.

Perhaps the Mass you attend is loud, the ones I’ve gone to are quiet so to hear someone right behind you make rude remarks isn’t difficult to hear. And you haven’t ever hear anyone in the pews around you speak during Mass?

Whenever I attend a different or new Parish I too am filled with anxiety about how the Mass will be celebrated. So I understand that we can often be hyper-sensitive about these things. But I think it’s important to keep the focus where it belongs.

“filled with anxiety?” When did I ever say I that??

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I would have approached the women. I would have asked them just exactly what was it that so obviously offended them. Then after they explained—if they had the nerve to—I would have said “I am sorry that offended you, but it is part of my family devotions. Perhaps next time we should sit somewhere else so you cannot see us and we will not offend you?”
Now, as Br. Rich mentioned, there are some things that just for the sake of peace are better left to majority custom–not to mention the fact that they are Bishop approved and would be showing disobedience if you make a spectacle of rejecting–there are acceptable compromises. Would it not be a better lesson for your children to learn to be flexible in their OPINIONS than be rigid and be perceived as unloving?
I do not like to hold hands during the Our Father and I only hold the person’s hand if they make the gesture and it would appear rude if I did not take it. I do not do the orans position if I am not holding hands–I fold my hands in front of me. I do bow during the Creed, and deep bow as I approach the priest for Communion. We stand for the Lamb of God, but most kneel after being served until all are served. I bow my head at every mention of praying and I gesture toward the priest as I extend him peace. I have notice that while I was the only one doing this last year, many others feel comfortable following my example. I even occasionally wear a head covering. I still have not completely decided on that yet, but one other woman does and she is in the choir and it is quite noticeable and no one seems to mind. Our Tabernacle is in the Sanctuary and I genuflect on every approach and retreat as is deserving of the King, I also use Holy Water and cross myself before and after Mass and I cross myself between receiving the elements as I pass in front of the altar.
When in Rome do as the Romans…
as long as it is opinion and not a matter of faith. (that is even if you think your opinion IS a matter of faith…accept it as a discipline to conquer.)

 

[Bishopite]

I haven’t experienced exactly what you did but I, of course, have had a touch of anger during Mass on more than one occasion. My most recent bout with anger consisted of a crying 6 year old getting upset because he ran out of Cheerios (screaming at the top of his lungs that he wanted more and this was during the consecration). Why did I get angry? Because the parents did absolutely nothing about it, they simply let him scream with no thought of the other people there.

As for someone “calling out” other people’s gestures (or lack there of) during the Mass, I don’t see the reason for it. Why should your genuflecting effect someone else? And then for that person to literally shake their head after you do it, unreal. People truly never cease to amaze me.

Thank you for your support. It is annoying when some parents allow their children to run wild at Mass. I experience it also as I attendt a large parish and there are parents who do let their children run wild, but do I say anything to them? NO, but I’m critized by some in this thread who say I’m the one who is in the wrong.
It seems that most people are condemning me for not being liberal enough or not conforming to the enviroment I’m in. What if they go to a parish where all of the people do jumping jacks during the consecration, should I just conform and do the same?
GIRM #43 says we are to kneel after the Agnus Dei and the Bishop does have the authority to allow standing, but does that mean I “HAVE” to stand? No not at all and some are saying I’m arrogant or judgemental and yet I’ve never said a word to anyone who stands, why are they allowed to say the same to me for something I have the right to do? Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I am thinking it may not have mattered to the women behind you but maybe they felt you were being critical of them? By correcting your children or standing out you may have inadvertantly appeared as arrogant and thus stimulated their defenses? I would have turned and smiled or made sure I offered them peace. If you were subconsciously bristling at the lack of discipline and worried about your kids it could have come across wrong. I would just sit somewhere else next time and see if it happens everywhere you sit.

 

[Bishopite]

[Ravyn_Guiliani;2630986]I would have approached the women. I would have asked them just exactly what was it that so obviously offended them. Then after they explained—if they had the nerve to—I would have said “I am sorry that offended you, but it is part of my family devotions. Perhaps next time we should sit somewhere else so you cannot see us and we will not offend you?”

That did cross my mind, but as I said, I bit my tongue so as not to get into an argument and I just looked the other way.

Now, as Br. Rich mentioned, there are some things that just for the sake of peace are better left to majority custom–not to mention the fact that they are Bishop approved and would be showing disobedience if you make a spectacle of rejecting–there are acceptable compromises. Would it not be a better lesson for your children to learn to be flexible in their OPINIONS than be rigid and be perceived as unloving?

Well, that depends on what you mean by “flexible?” What if the the whole parish holds hands together in a circle, then goes clockwise around the church chanting Reiki prayers, do I conform too?
Sure, I’m being extreme in my analogy, but at what point does one conform?

I do not like to hold hands during the Our Father and I only hold the person’s hand if they make the gesture and it would appear rude if I did not take it. I do not do the orans position if I am not holding hands–I fold my hands in front of me. I do bow during the Creed, and deep bow as I approach the priest for Communion. We stand for the Lamb of God, but most kneel after being served until all are served.

Ok then, if someone behind you says things about you kneeling, do you start standing? No, they have no right to say anything to you being you are in conformity to the rubrics of the Mass. And you have no right to say anything to anyone who stands as I don’t to those who do, although some on this thread already read into what I do and don’t do, apparently.

I bow my head at every menion of praying and I gesture toward the pries as I extend him peace. I have notice that while I was the only one doing this last yer, many others feel comfortable following my example. I even occasionally wear a head covering.

Again, some in my parish wear head coverings and do I say anything to them? No, they have the right to do so and they are trying to act more devout by doing so.

I still have not completely decided on that yet, but one other woman does and she is in the choir and it is quite noticeable and no one seems to mind.

And that’s the way it should be. If someone behind her makes a comment about her head covering, who’s in the right? She is not the person who made the comment, that’s my whole point in this thread.

When in Rome do as the Romans…
as long as it is opinion and not a matter of faith. (that is even if you think your opinion IS a matter of faith…accept it as a discipline to conquer.)

Yes, I agree and often I do. But what Paul meant by that is conform to the practices of the cultures of the Romans, yet he also spoke about those in 1 Cor 11 who went to the Eucharist drunk, so again there has to be some point at which we put our feet down. I’m not claiming to be an expert but in this case I choose to kneel.

 

[Bishopite]

I visit several different parishes over the year. It is very important for parishes especially in vacation spots to clearly communicate what the Bishops directives are (for those postures he is authorized to direct). I watch very carefully after the Lamb of God the others from the parish to see if they will continue to stand or kneel, and do likewise with the majority. I kneel where it is specified and may or may not hold hands, I have no problem either way. I will not “request” someone else’s hand, but will take one if offered to me. Simple solution. I bow at the proper words of the Creed and kneel after returning from Holy Communion. Bottom line it is necessary for the parish to somehow communicate to visitors what this parish does where differences are allowed. It’s almost like going up to receive Holy Communion you just follow what the locals do, within reason. If everyone was genuflecting before receiving. I probably would not, only because I most likely could not get back up easily without something to hold on to, and the head bow is what is called for by the USCCB.

I see your point, but at what point does one conform?

And the GIRM #43 says…

KNEELING DURING MASS

The 1975 GIRM provided for the faithful to kneel from after the Sanctus (“Holy, Holy, Holy”) to after the Great Amen. Though it was the American custom to kneel also after the Agnus Dei (“Lamb of God”), this was not provided for in the law, though Rome in-dicated that it did not object to the practice.

The new American adaptations now expressly provide for kneeling after the Agnus Dei, though the local bishop may choose to suspend this practice. The current law regarding when the faithful should kneel is as follows:

“In the dioceses of the United States of America, [the faithful] should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan bishop determines otherwise” (43).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2631160#post2631160
So, even though some kneel and some diocese stand, the option is one or the other.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

well Bishopite, then I would just ignore the comments this time, but like I said if it happens again I would address it. If someone commented about me kneeling I would just turn and smile at them and say ‘peace of Christ be with you too!’—who is going to refute that? LOL:shrug:
the line between opinion and faith matters is defined. of course circling and saying reiki prayers is a faith matter, not an opinion. (altho I have actually seen reiki prayers in a church but not during Mass… )

 

[Bishopite]

well Bishopite, then I would just ignore the comments this time, but like I said if it happens again I would address it. If someone commented about me kneeling I would just turn and smile at them and say ‘peace of Christ be with you too!’—who is going to refute that? LOL:shrug:
the line between opinion and faith matters is defined. of course circling and saying reiki prayers is a faith matter, not an opinion. (altho I have actually seen reiki prayers in a church but not during Mass… )

That’s good advice, thanks.

 

[blessedtoo]

NO, but I’m critized by some in this thread who say I’m the one who is in the wrong.
It seems that most people are condemning me for not being liberal enough or not conforming to the enviroment I’m in. What if they go to a parish where all of the people do jumping jacks during the consecration, should I just conform and do the same?
GIRM #43 says we are to kneel after the Agnus Dei and the Bishop does have the authority to allow standing, but does that mean I “HAVE” to stand? No not at all and some are saying I’m arrogant or judgemental and yet I’ve never said a word to anyone who stands, why are they allowed to say the same to me for something I have the right to do? Anyway, thanks again.

If your defensiveness on this thread is any indication of how you posture yourself at Mass, then perhaps some self-relflection is in order.

No one is “condemning you”, for heaven’s sake.

The Parish did not do anything outside the correct and appropriate rubrics of the Mass. No one stood in a circle and did reiki, no one ran dancing up the aisles to receive Communion. No one implied you had to conform to the posture or action of the other participants at the Mass. Don’t want to hold hands? Don’t want to stand? Fine. Do your thing as long as it doesn’t cause a scandal. BUT, based on YOUR original post (perhaps you should re-read what you wrote), you were very aware of the folks around you throughout the whole Mass. And no, I don’t understand why or how this could be. I’ve been in Churches where chatting occurs, but never during the Mass and never loud or coherent enough to actually decipher. I would have to be really listening to hear someone express annoyance at something I was doing. The question becomes, why are you listening to what others are saying? If you say you don’t care, then why would it even matter?

I’m sorry you have taken offense to the suggestion that you may have been overly sensitive. As someone who clings to traditional and faithful celebrations of the Mass, I understand the frustration and confusion of attending a Parish that does things differently. I also understand that one must be observant and aware of their surroundings and the practices of a new Church and that this awareness in itself can lead to sensitivity about how we are being perceived. Speaking for myself, when my response to others is excessive, I need to look at me first before trying to find fault with others.

 

[Bishopite]

blessedtoo;2631960]If your defensiveness on this thread is any indication of how you posture yourself at Mass, then perhaps some self-relflection is in order.

Remember, written words do not convey intination, inflection nor emotion, therefore it’s difficult to judge ones intent and I’m sorry but you’ve got it all wrong, I’m not defensive at all. I’m just stating the facts. What do my actions on this thread have to do with my “posturing” at Mass? Certainly I do need self-reflection as we all do, but again you are over being overly dramatic.

No one is “condemning you”, for heaven’s sake.

Uh…I’d beg to differ as some are defending those who critized me, and are saying I’m not being a conformist. Well, then I ask…at what point is conforming proper?
It IS proper to stand or to kneel, so the ISSUE is not them standing. The ISSUE is whether those women had the right to say anything about me and my family at Mass when I was acting properly within the rubrics of the Mass per GIRM #43. That is the issue.

The Parish did not do anything outside the correct and appropriate rubrics of the Mass.

Show me where I said they DID? Again, you’ve stepped from A to C without reading what B says. I NEVER complained about the parish’s right to stand, so you are incorrect here. Reread what I wrote…I said “I don’t mind if people stand, but I choose to kneel” in my original post.

No one stood in a circle and did reiki, no one ran dancing up the aisles to receive Communion. No one implied you had to conform to the posture or action of the other participants at the Mass. Don’t want to hold hands? Don’t want to stand? Fine. Do your thing as long as it doesn’t cause a scandal. BUT, based on YOUR original post (perhaps you should re-read what you wrote), you were very aware of the folks around you throughout the whole Mass.

Isn’t that stating the obvious? Of course I knew there were people around me, what I am angered at are those who made unecessary comments. That IS the issue here which you don’t seem to see. I never said the parish doesn’t have the right to stand but conversely I do have the right to kneel WITHOUT others making comments because of my actions.

And no, I don’t understand why or how this could be. I’ve been in Churches where chatting occurs, but never during the Mass and never loud or coherent enough to actually decipher.

Subjective inductive experientialism is what you are explaining. So because you’ve never heard coherent language means it doesn’t happen? That’s what you keep saying. Whether or not you’ve experienced is one thing, whether it DOES happen is another.

I would have to be really listening to hear someone express annoyance at something I was doing. The question becomes, why are you listening to what others are saying? If you say you don’t care, then why would it even matter?

Oh boy. And you can close your hearing at will? I’m human just like the rest and when it is quiet in Mass and the people are right behind you speaking, others can at times hear what they are saying.

I’m sorry you have taken offense to the suggestion that you may have been overly sensitive. As someone who clings to traditional and faithful celebrations of the Mass, I understand the frustration and confusion of attending a Parish that does things differently. I also understand that one must be observant and aware of their surroundings and the practices of a new Church and that this awareness in itself can lead to sensitivity about how we are being perceived. Speaking for myself, when my response to others is excessive, I need to look at me first before trying to find fault with others.

Read my original post and see that I said that I did NOT say anything to these women nor to the one who shook her head at me in disgust. And me overly sensitive? Not a chance.
Suggestions are welcomed, reading into what I thought or into my self-reflections is another.

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear Bishopite,

Like you, I kneel both at Consecration and after receiving Communion. And there have been people who have made their displeasure with my choice of posture known, even though I always respect the choice of those who wish to stand to do so.

Especially with the comeback of the Tridentine Latin Mass, I believe spiritual warfare regarding reverence and the charity of common courtesy at Mass will be on the increase.

Options you have include attending Mass at a time and location where you know it will be reverent … And dare I say it, the Tridentine Latin Mass is the best when it comes to both reverence and common courtesy … that’s been my personal experience, anyways. I’ve been blessed to have the opportunity to attend an indult Latin Mass fully in communion with Rome for some years now. Whenever I’ve gone there, there’s been absolutely no rude behavior to contend with.

Also, I switched my English-Language Novus Ordo parish from one where people stood to one where people kneel … the difference is like night and day. It’s definitely been the right solution in my case, especially as my new parish has a Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration Chapel which has provided me an opportunity to become an active parishioner in accordance with how I feel the Lord has directed me to sign up as an Adorer.

Another option is, on finding yourself in a situation where people around you are difficult to deal with, to pray to St. Michael the Archangel for help with the particular situation. It may sound like a flip answer, but St. Michael’s assistance can be very powerful in overcoming confrontational situations.

God bless you, and don’t let yourself get discouraged by the naysayers!

~~ the phoenix

 

[Bishopite]

Dear Bishopite,

Like you, I kneel both at Consecration and after receiving Communion. And there have been people who have made their displeasure with my choice of posture known, even though I always respect the choice of those who wish to stand to do so.

Thank you!! Finally someone who recognizes the issue. I must admit and confess that I was a little shocked at the lack of support as though my family and I were the ones doing something wrong. I often visit this parish and I know some kneel and a few stands, but if I said something rude to a family because they stood or disciplined their child I would be in the wrong, hence those who made the comments were the wrongdoers.

Especially with the comeback of the Tridentine Latin Mass, I believe spiritual warfare regarding reverence and the charity of common courtesy at Mass will be on the increase.

Yes, you are correct. I do love the TLM and those in it do NOT lack reverence that’s for sure, but I must say that I am a Novus Ordo type.

Options you have include attending Mass at a time and location where you know it will be reverent … And dare I say it, the Tridentine Latin Mass is the best when it comes to both reverence and common courtesy … that’s been my personal experience, anyways. I’ve been blessed to have the opportunity to attend an indult Latin Mass fully in communion with Rome for some years now. Whenever I’ve gone there, there’s been absolutely no rude behavior to contend with.

Yes, I agree. We have the TLM in our diocese already and have for some time and I’ve been to a few of them and they are always filled with reverence.

Also, I switched my English-Language Novus Ordo parish from one where people stood to one where people kneel … the difference is like night and day. It’s definitely been the right solution in my case, especially as my new parish has a Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration Chapel which has provided me an opportunity to become an active parishioner in accordance with how I feel the Lord has directed me to sign up as an Adorer.

Another option is, on finding yourself in a situation where people around you are difficult to deal with, to pray to St. Michael the Archangel for help with the particular situation. It may sound like a flip answer, but St. Michael’s assistance can be very powerful in overcoming confrontational situations.

God bless you, and don’t let yourself get discouraged by the naysayers!.
~~ the phoenix

Thanks for the great advice and kind words, you are a breath of fresh air. I will take the St. Michael to heart if it happens again. The TLM is always an option and a good one at that. Though this parish wasn’t my home parish, it was one which I visit once or two times a year when we go on vacation. I just wonder sometimes about incementalism creeping into the Mass, how things like holding hands is now considered by many to be a normal part of the Novus Ordo Mass. Are we becoming like the frog who is dropped into the pot of water, the heat is gradually rising until it boils, yet the frog doesn’t realize what is happening because the temperature is rising slowly in increments that he can’t notice? And at what point do we say no to the rising temperature or will we recongize the rising temperature?

 

[mdgspencer]

I agree that these women were rude and out of line. However, sometimes it is better to pray for people, than do anything else. Though I admit, I can get angry easily myself over such a situation, but later I may realize that I should pray for them.

 

[Sr_Sally]

I would be much more worried about my sin of anger than at what other people thought of me or at what other people did during Mass.

Try your best to put that women’s words and possible intentions out of your mind and focus only your own thoughts, words, and intentions.