"This generation will not pass away...": How is this true? Matthew 24:29-35

[TimothyH]

In this fragment Jesus also mentioned that the “tribulations” would be “immediately” followed by darkening of the sky, stars falling on Earth and Son of Man appearing in the East.

I know that there is an interpretation that it was fulfilled in St. John’s vision on Pathmos. Nevertheless, this discourse has not yet been fulfilled “literally”.

Here is an example…

The veil of the temple was made of porpoise skin, or the skin of some other kind of animal or sea creature. On it was painted a depiction of the night sky, moon and sun.

and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale; the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (Revelation 6:13-14)

Titus’ troops literally rolled up the veil for transport back to Rome where Titus presented it to his father Emperor Vespasian as a gift.

This is just one example. A close read and knowledge of history shows that all of Jesus’ words in the Olivet Discourse were fulfilled in 70AD. I used to have a copy of someone’s doctoral thesis which went through it all.

-Tim-

 

[mikekle]

Here is an example…

The veil of the temple was made of porpoise skin, or the skin of some other kind of animal or sea creature. On it was painted a depiction of the night sky, moon and sun.

and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale; the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (Revelation 6:13-14)

Titus’ troops literally rolled up the veil for transport back to Rome where Titus presented it to his father Emperor Vespasian as a gift.

This is just one example. A close read and knowledge of history shows that all of Jesus’ words in the Olivet Discourse were fulfilled in 70AD. I used to have a copy of someone’s doctoral thesis which went through it all.

-Tim-

I was under the impression this was a description of an event to happen upon the second coming, when the sky will roll up like a scroll and the stars will fall to earth, and we will get to see the ‘real’ world.

 

[Darryl_B]

The end, is AD70. It is not the end of this world that Jesus is talking about, but the end of a world. Jesus provides a means of escaping being caught up in the destruction at the end of that world. Nobody can escape the end of this world.

Matthew 24 Mark 13 and Luke 24 are all about AD70.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

In my opinion, they happened in regard of what Jesus promised to the Apostles (St. John saw all those things on Pathmos, this is one of the interpretations of the fragment), but did not in respect of the reader of the Gospel (i.e., us).

What is the point of a prophecy where the words have to be twisted so much to bash four round pegs into four square holes?

Is there any value in a prophecy if no one can say definitively if it has been fulfilled?

Jesus failed the Deuteronomy 18:22 test no matter how much people want to proclaim that he prophesied some things, those things occurred, yet Jesus was accurate.

 

[Darryl_B]

What is the point of a prophecy where the words have to be twisted so much to bash four round pegs into four square holes?

Is there any value in a prophecy if no one can say definitively if it has been fulfilled?

Jesus failed the Deuteronomy 18:22 test no matter how much people want to proclaim that he prophesied some things, those things occurred, yet Jesus was accurate.

Maybe it is you who are bashing three square pegs into three circular ones? Is your litmus test Deuteronomy 18:22 acute enough to first examine the context, or has your disillusion beaten you to to?

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Maybe it is you who are bashing three square pegs into three circular ones? Is your litmus test Deuteronomy 18:22 acute enough to first examine the context, or has your disillusion beaten you to to?

Context is not a magic word to make pieces fit together. The events in Matthew 24:29-30 didn’t happen, and the prophecy was not fulfilled.

 

[Darryl_B]

Context is not a magic word to make pieces fit together. The events in Matthew 24:29-30 didn’t happen, and the prophecy was not fulfilled.

The disciples asked Jesus Christ questions. Jesus Christ answered those questions. What were those questions?

 

[PJM]

Here is an example…

The veil of the temple was made of porpoise skin, or the skin of some other kind of animal or sea creature. On it was painted a depiction of the night sky, moon and sun.

and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale; the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (Revelation 6:13-14)

Titus’ troops literally rolled up the veil for transport back to Rome where Titus presented it to his father Emperor Vespasian as a gift.

This is just one example. A close read and knowledge of history shows that all of Jesus’ words in the Olivet Discourse were fulfilled in 70AD. I used to have a copy of someone’s doctoral thesis which went through it all.

-Tim-

The 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem makes perfect sense as the fulfillment Jesus spoke about.

Thanks

 

[TimothyH]

Context is not a magic word to make pieces fit together. The events in Matthew 24:29-30 didn’t happen, and the prophecy was not fulfilled.

But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. (Matthew 22:29)

Jesus rightly spoke of you in this passage.

I would add that you are quite ignorant of history and of the culture at that time.

-Tim-

 

[Darryl_B]

The questions the disciples asked were

1. When will this be,
2. What will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age.

Question 1 is concerning the destruction of the temple.
Question 2 is concerning Jesus Christ becoming King and heralding in the Kingdom of God.

Question 2 cannot be regarded from an anachronistic perspective. The disciples were not aware of Acts 1 where Jesus Christ would go away. The disciples were not even aware of the Passion of Jesus Christ.

Thief on the cross “Remember me when you come into your kingdom”.

Question 2 is a question of when will Jesus Christ receive the Kingdom.

Zechariah 9:9 Behold your King comes to you.

Matthew 24 Mark 13 and Luke 21 only become problematic to the millenialist. This encompasses an idea that while Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God the Father, he has not yet received a Kingdom. This supposedly, in that scenario will not happen until he returns or “comes back”. This is of course overturned by the discourse made by Peter in Acts 2 in the very first evangelization of the Church. It is also overturned by the Church Triumphant.

 

[mikekle]

The 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem makes perfect sense as the fulfillment Jesus spoke about.

Thanks

So, in 70AD, every mountain and island were removed from their place?

If all this has been fulfilled already, who was the anti-christ, the false prophet?

 

[Darryl_B]

So, in 70AD, every mountain and island were removed from their place?

If all this has been fulfilled already, who was the anti-christ, the false prophet?

Mountains and islands are traditionally considered last lines of strategic defense. Maccabees used the temple mount as an impenetrable fortress. Masada, what happened to you?

Even these were not exempt, they were thrown down.

Are we mixing Revelation of John with the Gospels?

 

[TimothyH]

So, in 70AD, every mountain and island were removed from their place?

If all this has been fulfilled already, who was the anti-christ, the false prophet?

I think you are conflating Revelation, John’s first letter and the Olivet Discourse.

The anti-Christ is only in John’s first letter. John says that anyone who denies that Jesus is from God is the anti-Christ.

The Olviet Discourse contains warnings about many false Christs and many false prophets.

*For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many. (Matthew 24:5)

And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. (Matthew 24:11)

For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.(Matthew 24:24)*

There were many false messiah’s around the time of Jesus. Simon Mangus, Dositheos the Samaritan, Simon of Peraea, Athronges, etc. These can be looked up. The Roman Emperor himself claimed to be “savior of the world and father of all men.”

False prophets are all through the Old Testament. Very common.

-Tim-

 

[Randy_Carson]

Take a second look at post #7, folks.

There is a LOT of symbolism at work in MT. 24.

 

[mikekle]

I think you are conflating Revelation, John’s first letter and the Olivet Discourse.

The anti-Christ is only in John’s first letter. John says that anyone who denies that Jesus is from God is the anti-Christ.

The Olviet Discourse contains warnings about many false Christs and many false prophets.

For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many. (Matthew 24:5)

And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. (Matthew 24:11)

For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.(Matthew 24:24)

There were many false messiah’s around the time of Jesus. Simon Mangus, Dositheos the Samaritan, Simon of Peraea, Athronges, etc. These can be looked up. The Roman Emperor himself claimed to be “savior of the world and father of all men.”

False prophets are all through the Old Testament. Very common.

-Tim-

So what time period are we living in now?

 

[Darryl_B]

So what time period are we living in now?

The age of the One indivisible visible Church. The head of the Church is Jesus Christ. King of kings and Lord of lords.

The 1000 years in Revelation is symbolic of “1” a complete period of time, “0” and so on, “0” and so on, “0” and so on. I am with you always even til the end of the age.

 

[TimothyH]

So what time period are we living in now?

I don’t understand what you mean by “time period.”

-Tim-

 

[PJM]

So, in 70AD, every mountain and island were removed from their place?

If all this has been fulfilled already, who was the anti-christ, the false prophet?

If you lived at that TIME in Jerusalem you’d have THOUGHT SO Amen!

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

 

[ethereality]

I have read this thread’s discussion that AD 70 is the resolution to this puzzle, but I do not see how it resolves the problem I’ve presented (emphasis added):

My basic problem with Matthew 24 is that literally Jesus promises that the end of the world will come, with specific actions, to the generation he’s speaking to, nearly two thousand years ago.

27 For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Additionally, what Jesus says in verse 21 appears inconsistent with the AD 70 explanation:

there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be.

I understand losing the Temple to be the Jewish equivalent of our losing the ministerial priesthood (hence not being able to consecrate the Eucharist – this would end the catholic faith, would it not?), but from the surrounding verses the context is physical suffering, not spiritual: Are you really going to claim that the Romans sacking Jerusalem was worse than the Shoah of World War II? Did the Romans try to kill absolutely everyone, together with the atrocities committed by the Nazis? worse than what they did?

 

[Church_Militant]

You really do need a copy of What Jesus Really Said About the End of the World
**By: ** David B. Currie