This is an eye opener

[horselvr]

I went to Mass this morning at my old parish and because the church is expanding this Mass was held in a gym and was packed. The original Church is further down and is also packed.

This is a Catholic Church in the south and I was very surprised to see how very protestant it has become. There were not many of us singing the hymns and those that sort of took a stab at singing were clapping their hands—they also clapped prior to Mass while the “band” played on which made it difficult to concentrate on the Rosary and they clapped after Mass. A lot of the people did not cross themselves nor did they make the sign of the cross on their foreheads, lips and heart for the reading of the Gospel.

They did not genuflect or acknowledge Christ as they came up the isle they only acknowledged their friends and once they found them they carried on like they were at a party. The Priest almost looked confused as I took communion on the tongue as opposed to on the hand as this now seemed to be the norm.

No one that I could see bowed during the Profession of Faith. Everyone held hands during the Our Father and waved their hands and arms up to the ceiling.

I realize someone will come on here and reply that I should pay attention to Christ and NOT what is going on around me. However, I found all of this very distracting especially when praying the Rosary prior to Mass. and not at all Catholic.

 

[Kielbasi]

Its not surprising that a Catholic church and its parishioners in the south would adopt some protestant practices. The South is the most protestant area of the country, and also the area of the country with the highest church attendance.

You’ll see this in other parts of the world too, there are cultural differences reflected during masses in places like Africa and Latin America compared to the US or Europe.

Similarly, here in America, eastern rite Catholics complain sometimes about “latinizations” from the dominant Roman Catholic culture in working class areas, picked up from their Latin Rite friends and relatives.

I understand the culture shock, I understand your concern, I don’t know how anything could be done about it.

 

[Shea96]

I feel ya. When I have to go to our local Novus Ordo due to scheduling, it is always culture shock. I know some people need the energy that a more “protestant” feeling parish offers, but IMO it just feels irreverent. I could be in a non-denominational or protestant church and never know it if it weren’t for the name on the outside! Once I went to a church while traveling and there were no kneelers and no real altar. I’m not even sure where the Tabernacle was…that wasn’t even in the south. Makes me appreciate even more the tranquility and peace, beauty and reverence of the EF Mass.

 

[pianistclare]

Wow.

 

[angell1]

I feel ya. When I have to go to our local Novus Ordo due to scheduling, it is always culture shock. I know some people need the energy that a more “protestant” feeling parish offers, but IMO it just feels irreverent. I could be in a non-denominational or protestant church and never know it if it weren’t for the name on the outside! Once I went to a church while traveling and there were no kneelers and no real altar. I’m not even sure where the Tabernacle was…that wasn’t even in the south. Makes me appreciate even more the tranquility and peace, beauty and reverence of the EF Mass.

that certainly is different.

none of our NO masses around here are like that

 

[Gliggle]

How wonderful to hear the Parish is expanding!

 

[StGerardMajella]

I realize someone will come on here and reply that I should pay attention to Christ and NOT what is going on around me. However, I found all of this very distracting especially when praying the Rosary prior to Mass. and not at all Catholic.

Find a local parish that celebrates the pre-Vatican II Mass - the Tridentine Mass or “Latin Mass”.

 

[Kielbasi]

How wonderful to hear the Parish is expanding!

In a lot of areas in the American South, the total population is expanding. Most of the new migrants tend to come from the Rust Belt or are migrants from Latin America- either legal or illegal. Those two groups are largely Catholic.

I live on the other end of the migration trail, and we’ve been losing churches- I guess in a way, those churches up here aren’t really closing but in a way are just relocating.

 

[TimothyH]

This is nothing but a complaint thread. I

Everyone says, “Oh, yeah, wow, that’s bad.”

And then what? What good is this whole discussion? It accomplishes nothing.

 

[horselvr]

I apologize timothyh:

Obviously I should have gotten your permission before posting about my shocking experience. Not more than few years ago this same parish held Masses that were very reverent with gregorian music.

Gliggle: Thank you for reminding me of the positive. Yes the Parish is and has been expanding with 14,000 families a few years ago and now definitely expanding. Good to see but----.

Everyone else thank you too for your comments and suggestions.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Sadly this is the way many parishes are. My local parish is this way. Fortunately, I am able to go to the Traditional Latin Mass. It is saddening to see irreverence at Mass.

 

[fan312]

Sadly, for me, I don’t have access to the TLM, and we have a beautiful Vietnamese parish nearby that makes mass very reverent: No hand holding, no clapping, pure silence, communal rosary before mass, etc.

 

[R_H_Benson]

I feel ya. When I have to go to our local Novus Ordo due to scheduling, it is always culture shock. I know some people need the energy that a more “protestant” feeling parish offers, but IMO it just feels irreverent. I could be in a non-denominational or protestant church and never know it if it weren’t for the name on the outside! Once I went to a church while traveling and there were no kneelers and no real altar. I’m not even sure where the Tabernacle was…that wasn’t even in the south. Makes me appreciate even more the tranquility and peace, beauty and reverence of the EF Mass.

Thank God for the increasing availability of the Traditional Latin Mass!

 

[R_H_Benson]

This is nothing but a complaint thread. I

Everyone says, “Oh, yeah, wow, that’s bad.”

And then what? What good is this whole discussion? It accomplishes nothing.

It opens eyes to the reality of what is occurring in individual parishes. How often do we hear stories like this? I suppose we can just sit back idly and accept the sad state of affairs, afraid to address the problems. But if we do that, nothing will ever change. Meanwhile, what is left of our Catholic identity is evaporating at an alarming rate, in this particular case, under the disguise of “inculturation”.

 

[R_H_Benson]

Indeed, this was universally the manner in which the congregation would participate in the Roman Rite until the implementation of the liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

But why then is the opposite not also true with respect to “reverence” being demonstrated not “silently” but in a demonstrative way, by joyfully celebrating the presence of the Lord verbally and physically? Hmmmm?

Because, in most cultures, and certainly in your average American Catholic parish, it is a break with tradition. Clearly, the OP is describing a parish where a Protestant ethos has crept in and taken hold. While their enthusiasm for worship is a good thing, it must be tempered with a Catholic sense of reverence for Our Lord’s presence in the Blessed Sacrament. It is telling that clapping and hand-holding at Mass is often coupled with a notable lack of reverent gestures like genuflections and bows. The scenario described by the OP is incredibly horizontal and Protestant. The fervor of the parishioners is there, but it is misplaced. They spend their time applauding one another, shaking hands, etc., while failing to make the proper reverences towards Our Lord.

In other words, I believe that it is just as insulting to claim that those with a preference for the Extra-ordinary Form don’t “actively participate” as it is to claim that those who verbally and physically demonstrate their love for God are “irreverent”.

I think that you have a fair point there, but in the particular case related by the OP, there is a clear lack of reverence on display.

 

[exnihilo]

Its not surprising that a Catholic church and its parishioners in the south would adopt some protestant practices. The South is the most protestant area of the country, and also the area of the country with the highest church attendance.

I’m a Protestant convert from the South. Why would this not be surprising? I don’t think the Catholic Churches in the South are mostly full of Protestant converts. I meet mostly lifelong Catholics from the North. How and why would the Catholic Church in the South take on southern Protestant habits? Mere proximity doesn’t explain it.

There is some truth to what you say. But I’d also point out the expressive people make it hard for the non expressive people to participate. The opposite is not true. Also there certainly is such a thing as irreverence. This is a broad topic, but a man being mentally irreverent isn’t causing a problem for others like a man being outwardly irrelevant does.

 

[AttendeDomine]

Deacon, I think a lot of traditionalists will have a problem with this, because the notion that there is not a right way to pray is just not what the Catholic Church taught for 19 centuries. I’ll be blunt: I personally find that to be an absolutely modern idea that almost strikes me as a very unconscious form of indifferentism.

Let’s begin with an obvious example: praying in a state of mortal sin is by no means a right way to pray. In fact, unless a person in such a state happens to be cooperating with the graces of repentance, or unless God is extending certain extraordinary mercies, their prayer will probably not be heard. How can we merit something supernatural outside of Christ? Have we suddenly become pelagians?

Now, the Old Mass’s active participation means mental prayer. As you probably know, persons like St. Theresa of Avila taught that there is a nine-tiered hierarchy of prayer—and that vocal prayer, while absolutely wonderful and something to be cultivated, is at the absolute bottom. Mental prayer is the minimum before entering into the higher levels.

The folks who want more mental prayer at Church, simply want higher forms of prayer to be cultivated by the Holy Mass, as they once were.

Moreover, you put reverence in scare quotes. Well, the fact of the matter is that our prayer is going to merit very little if we are not praying with love, with attention, and with humility.

The Church’s spiritual theology, as far as a dodo like me can tell, has taught that humility is best cultivated by reverence, and this is why reverence has been a priority in the Holy Mass.

So yes, there’s lots of folks who would take exception to your categorizing all prayer as being equal, since a Doctor of the Church and a great Saint would patently disagree. Moreover, I think it’s extremely simplistic to state that there’s no reason to cultivate mental prayer in Mass, or that handclapping or shouting is just as valid a means to cultivate it as is silence. Forgive me, but that notion is ridiculous.

Finally: it should be noted that people who “have a preference” for the Old Mass, may not always simply be approaching things from the perspective of foolishly absolutizing their own desires. Rather, lots of people do have objective reasons for their preference, and they know that simply following their emotions as a rule of faith is actually just Modernism in a different garb.

 

[Shea96]

This is nothing but a complaint thread. I

Everyone says, “Oh, yeah, wow, that’s bad.”

And then what? What good is this whole discussion? It accomplishes nothing.

Not so much a complaint thread, more like a lamentation.

I am not bashing the OF of the Mass. I realize many people prefer it and need it’s energy, and need the direct, vocal interaction.

I will also say that most people do not even realize what the differences are. The availability to an EF/TLM is not widespread. Those that know about are are often afraid to try it out. When you grow up in the OF, it’s all you know, nothing seems “bad” about it.

So, what good is the whole discussion? Depends on the reader, and how open minded on is. Discovering the TLM was a game changer for me. NOT saying it would be that way for everyone, but having spent my entire life in a Novus Ordo, I had NO.IDEA. what it meant to be at Mass. It isn’t the vocal participation or even the music that makes it irreverent. Those things could be integrated well and still be a sacred Mass. It’s the casual, laid back, non-denominational, we’re all here to be Jesus’ BFF, feel of it. Teens (and adults) coming in shorts and skirts that are missing the point of being clothing, jeans, flip flops, tight fitting things, things that look like you are headed to a sporting even or rock concert rather than sacred Mass. People can clap and cheer and sway and sing and hold hands, but then you will see able-bodied people do some half lean/barely bend the knee “genuflect”.

Anyway, there are more things, but at the end of the day, I always think, if some of these people were invited to a dinner at the white house, they’d be out buying a new dress, having hair done and manicures, their manners there would be polished and formal. And yet come to see our Lord, and it’s more like a tailgate party.

The more people become aware of the reasons for the tradition, hopefully people will return to an attitude of respect for our Lord, the King and Savior and not treat him like some high school jock we all want to just hang with.

 

[ProVobis]

I worked for a boss back in 1970 who complained at the lunch table about praying “in cadences,” that it wasn’t sincere prayer because you “had” to do it. Also more focus on trying to keep up or slow down with the rest. This obviously bothered him a lot. And I think he had a point. It may sound good to others but I’ve never been able to pray in such settings. And besides, God isn’t hard of hearing. Why need a microphone to address God? What did the high priest in the OT do when offering the sacrifice? Aren’t Abel, Melchizedek, and Abraham mentioned in EP1 and the Canon?

 

[TimothyH]

It opens eyes to the reality of what is occurring in individual parishes. How often do we hear stories like this? I suppose we can just sit back idly and accept the sad state of affairs, afraid to address the problems. But if we do that, nothing will ever change. Meanwhile, what is left of our Catholic identity is evaporating at an alarming rate, in this particular case, under the disguise of “inculturation”.

What do you propose we all do? How do we “address the problems?”

What is my action item?

Not so much a complaint thread, more like a lamentation.

Semantics.

-Tim-