This is an eye opener

[Kielbasi]

I’m a Protestant convert from the South. Why would this not be surprising? I don’t think the Catholic Churches in the South are mostly full of Protestant converts. I meet mostly lifelong Catholics from the North. How and why would the Catholic Church in the South take on southern Protestant habits? Mere proximity doesn’t explain it.

.

Perhaps these southern Protestant habits date from the not so distant past when Catholics were a very tiny minority in Dixie? New Catholic residents from the rust belt adopted the habits from this minority and passed them on?

Just hypothesizing here, of course.

But here in the north, it is a different experience attending ghetto churches- only a small minority of blacks are Catholic, where the spirituality isn’t quite the same as it is in other churches.

I bet that Latin rite churches in predominately orthodox or eastern rite areas over in Europe and the Middle East have parishioners adopting some eastern habits as well.

 

[Padres1969]

I feel ya. When I have to go to our local Novus Ordo due to scheduling, it is always culture shock. I know some people need the energy that a more “protestant” feeling parish offers, but IMO it just feels irreverent. I could be in a non-denominational or protestant church and never know it if it weren’t for the name on the outside! Once I went to a church while traveling and there were no kneelers and no real altar. I’m not even sure where the Tabernacle was…that wasn’t even in the south. Makes me appreciate even more the tranquility and peace, beauty and reverence of the EF Mass.

Probably depends on the individual church more than the OF v EF. I mean I’ve been to plenty of Catholic OF masses over the years that are very reverent and clearly Catholic.

Been to plenty of Catholic OF masses that were more as the OP describes and are less reverent and also more “protestant” than the masses at my home Episcopal Church. I mean I was a tad shocked the first time I visited the Catholic parish closest to my house. No tabernacle present, very spartan church with no real Catholic iconography or the like, big video screen with song words on it, modern music and “band” instead of a choir, no altar servers present during the service. Congregants talking very audibly during the entire mass. Phones ringing and being answered. Almost no one genuflecting.

 

[TimothyH]

Probably depends on the individual church more than the OF v EF. I mean I’ve been to plenty of Catholic OF masses over the years that are very reverent and clearly Catholic.

Been to plenty of Catholic OF masses that were more as the OP describes and are less reverent and also more “protestant” than the masses at my home Episcopal Church. I mean I was a tad shocked the first time I visited the Catholic parish closest to my house. No tabernacle present, very spartan church with no real Catholic iconography or the like, big video screen with song words on it, modern music and “band” instead of a choir, no altar servers present during the service. Congregants talking very audibly during the entire mass. Phones ringing and being answered. Almost no one genuflecting.

Every Catholic Church has a tabernacle. It was probably in a side chapel and you didn’t see it.

-Tim-

 

[The_Apostolate]

You must remember that ,different places hold mass the way they do,even thought you might been too a church that does it up here like in Buffalo,N.Y. were I live ,but I too don,t receive Communion in mt hand, for the Host has been concerned,it should be only put on the tongue,even the Alter boy wear,s white gloves when he bring,s the Chalice out for mass…

 

[The_Apostolate]

Find a local parish that celebrates the pre-Vatican II Mass - the Tridentine Mass or “Latin Mass”.

When I pray ,I,concentrated on my pray,s and not what people are saying, but too avoid that I go earlier,so I can ,not be disturb. Amen.

 

[The_Apostolate]

Every Catholic Church has a tabernacle. It was probably in a side chapel and you didn’t see it.

-Tim-

Yes, some are too the side, for that is like that in my church.too the right off the alter. Amen

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Threads such as these almost always end up opening a can of worms. I am surprised it got to page 2 without labels such as pharisee and progressivist being thrown around left and right. Still, calling a mass “protestant like” isn’t a good way to make yourself sympathetic to those who appreciate mass with instruments and hand clapping. I myself have experienced solemn OF masses so it is not the form of the mass that is at fault (though I prefer the OF without instruments because I find it easier to pay attention to the prayers and hymns). I think a lot of people, especially young people such as myself who have never experienced the EF, tend to romanticize the TLM. The only thing I have experienced comparable to what I think an EF mass experience would be like is the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. At first, the incense and icons inspire reverence but after the novelty wears off, one struggles with boredom. One book I found in an Orthodox Church library was about this very topic.

Still, I think there is still something to be said to maintaining continuity with our past. I am glad Pope Benedict brought back the EF. After all, if we find ourselves bored in Church, the onus is on us to prove it is the Church’s responsibility for how we feel at the mass–not the Church. Unfortunately, the mass has become about self expression on both sides of the debate here at CAF. Everyone here is too focused on how the mass should make them feel and no one has bothered to give a definition of reverence though the term is thrown around a lot.

 

[multitude]

Threads such as these almost always end up opening a can of worms. I am surprised it got to page 2 without labels such as pharisee and progressivist being thrown around left and right. Still, calling a mass “protestant like” isn’t a good way to make yourself sympathetic to those who appreciate mass with instruments and hand clapping. I myself have experienced solemn OF masses so it is not the form of the mass that is at fault (though I prefer the OF without instruments because I find it easier to pay attention to the prayers and hymns). I think a lot of people, especially young people such as myself who have never experienced the EF, tend to romanticize the TLM. :

You’re surprised that Pharisee and progressivist labels have not been thrown around? Are you serious? What I have been noticing lately is that very few people do that anymore. If anything, even a supposedly balanced and fair viewpoint, can be completely off the mark. And for the record, as a young guy I have never been to an EF, and I do not particularly have any real yearning for it.

No genuflection? No sign of the cross? What do you call it other than “Protestant lite”?

 

[Thomas_Casey]

NOTICE FROM MODERATOR

Traditional Catholicism Forum is for the sole purpose of discussing Catholic traditions and customs, not for the purpose of complaining about what we don’t like about the way others worship.

Such complaining, though it may be traditional in some sectors of society, is not considered traditional enough to merit space on this forum.

Please drop it.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

NOTICE FROM MODERATOR

Traditional Catholicism Forum is for the sole purpose of discussing Catholic traditions and customs, not for the purpose of complaining about what we don’t like about the way others worship.

Such complaining, though it may be traditional in some sectors of society, is not considered traditional enough to merit space on this forum.

Please drop it.

 

[Kyrie_eleison_9]

I went to Mass this morning at my old parish and because the church is expanding this Mass was held in a gym and was packed. The original Church is further down and is also packed.

This is a Catholic Church in the south and I was very surprised to see how very protestant it has become. There were not many of us singing the hymns and those that sort of took a stab at singing were clapping their hands—they also clapped prior to Mass while the “band” played on which made it difficult to concentrate on the Rosary and they clapped after Mass. A lot of the people did not cross themselves nor did they make the sign of the cross on their foreheads, lips and heart for the reading of the Gospel.

They did not genuflect or acknowledge Christ as they came up the isle they only acknowledged their friends and once they found them they carried on like they were at a party. The Priest almost looked confused as I took communion on the tongue as opposed to on the hand as this now seemed to be the norm.

No one that I could see bowed during the Profession of Faith. Everyone held hands during the Our Father and waved their hands and arms up to the ceiling.

I realize someone will come on here and reply that I should pay attention to Christ and NOT what is going on around me. However, I found all of this very distracting especially when praying the Rosary prior to Mass. and not at all Catholic.

I’m a convert from Protestantism and this sounds like a Protestant service to me!

I wouldn’t go back, if it were me.

 

[Michael68]

Thank you for this Deacon Jeff!

 

[Michael68]

As long as the Liturgy was not changed, I have no problem with it. I’m sure there are other times Mass is offered and other churches.

 

[sirach2v4]

Its not surprising that a Catholic church and its parishioners in the south would adopt some protestant practices. The South is the most protestant area of the country, and also the area of the country with the highest church attendance.

You’ll see this in other parts of the world too, there are cultural differences reflected during masses in places like Africa and Latin America compared to the US or Europe.

Similarly, here in America, eastern rite Catholics complain sometimes about “latinizations” from the dominant Roman Catholic culture in working class areas, picked up from their Latin Rite friends and relatives.

I understand the culture shock, I understand your concern, I don’t know how anything could be done about it.

The trend since Vatican II seems to be to allow each bishop as much discretion as possible. There were 16 documents of the council, but a big theme was the role of each bishop.

We then had a bishop who turned around and delegated most of his authority to the pastors of each parish. So, there was and still is a lot of non-standard practice in my diocese. My current pastor is a priest who is trained in canon law, but adds prayers and songs to the liturgy, as if we didn’t sing enough already.

We have two churches in our parish, and they have long used The People’s Mass Book and the Worship Hymnal, both of which seem to have a certain amount of Protestant hymns by Martin Luther, Charles Wesley, etc.

The rationalization for Protestant hymns is that “we’re taking the best” of the Protestant tradition. I am old enough to have lived through Vat II, and I was hoping for an explosion of high quality music, a la breaking the floodgates open to stimulate and incorporate a whole new involvement with the liturgy of the Mass, but I don’t see that anything like that has happened. On the contrary, clericalism simply had a new domain to conquer, and that is where we are today. I think the priests pick the music that they are most comfortable with, that puts them in the mood that they want for Mass, and that’s it.

We sing THE SAME Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei (in English, of course), year in and year out. No longer singing the Credo. The priests use the SHORTEST Eucharistic prayer – the one where the priest prays something like “may your Presence come upon these gifts as the dewfall” – Is God’s presence in the Eucharist like a “dewfall” anyway? something ON TOP OF the bread, like dew is on top of grass? I always trip mentally when I hear those words. If they had to include a simile in the prayer, I don’t think that was the best one to use. Am I still on the topic of this thread?