This Is Gonna Get Ugly

[floresco]

Just for the record, I had my daughter at age 43, naturally and she is perfectly healthy.

Us too. Our youngest was born when his mother was 43 and father 45. He has been a constant joy.

 

[Carlan]

I understand what you all are saying…I really do. But this isn’t just about me. My husband is in this marriage too and I feel like this is not fair for him. I sometimes wish he would of married someone else better suited for him. We are very different. I guess we should have explored that further before we got married 11 years ago. But of course, we are married to each other so here I am.

*edited to add a question- Is it a mortal sin to have relations at the very beginning or end of menstrual cycle? I am asking this since I am pretty sure there would be little chance of being fertile at that point

Part of the pre marriage talks with our priest many , many , years ago was the fact that we had to be always open to the possibility of life. My husband,at the time, was not yet Catholic and he had to sign a paper to that affect and he had to agree and understand, children conceived had to taught and raised in the faith. Peace, Carlan

 

[dailey]

Oh Boy, looks like the boys are ganging up, lol! Just kidding.

I understand how important sex is for men but, just for the record, my husband puts it before all else. In other words, its his god. And I don’t think I am exaggerating when I say that. We don’t spend time together having talks, going out for dinner, long walks, Nothing…

I tried talking to him again about ABC being a mortal sin and all he does is roll his eyes. He is so disgusted with the church right now because he thinks I’m being brainwashed. He actually thinks I’m going above and beyond what most people are doing for their faith??

Oh well, I’m not gonna be a sinner just to please him. And to top it off, its our anniversary today…and he forgot…again.

 

[jmcrae]

This has not been a good week for me.

For those of you who did not read my other post, my dog died. Out of grief, I came here to find some answers on pets and heaven. In doing so, I also came across a lot of other stuff that I was unaware of…like using protection is a mortal sin. Of course, being born and raised a catholic, I knew that it was considered a sin, but not mortal. So now that I know, I will have to inform my husband and this could definitely get ugly.

This isn’t news that you just spring on somebody. You’re right - it’ll be ugly, because nobody changes the habits of a lifetime overnight. (That’s why RCIA takes two years.)

Talk to your priest, and get in touch with a couple who teaches a reliable form of Natural Family Planning before mentioning anything to your husband. Have the alternative in place and ready to go, and know how to explain it to him, before you start having that discussion.

And then move gently, and slowly. You want him buy into this for reasons that he himself can live with, which means that it needs to be presented (after carefully considering all of the information available) as a choice that he can make - and hopefully, the information will be presented to him clearly enough so that he will immediately understand the benefits to himself and to your whole married life, so that he will have no hesitation in taking it on.

Best of luck to you.

 

[dailey]

This isn’t news that you just spring on somebody. You’re right - it’ll be ugly, because nobody changes the habits of a lifetime overnight. (That’s why RCIA takes two years.)

Talk to your priest, and get in touch with a couple who teaches a reliable form of Natural Family Planning before mentioning anything to your husband. Have the alternative in place and ready to go, and know how to explain it to him, before you start having that discussion.

And then move gently, and slowly. You want him buy into this for reasons that he himself can live with, which means that it needs to be presented (after carefully considering all of the information available) as a choice that he can make - and hopefully, the information will be presented to him clearly enough so that he will immediately understand the benefits to himself and to your whole married life, so that he will have no hesitation in taking it on.

Best of luck to you.

Well, my intentions were not to spring this on him. However, he wanted to have sex so I felt like I had no choice but to tell him about it.

Bottom line is this-my husband is not a fan of the church…especially Catholics. I’ve seen little signs over the years (ex: rolling of the eyes when they collect money). Nothing anyone tells him is going to change his mind. He is stubborn. He flat out told me yesterday he is NOT interested in religion…first time he said that out loud.

Thank you for all the supportive words and advice. I most definitely appreciate it.:grouphug:

 

[buffalo]

Well, my intentions were not to spring this on him. However, he wanted to have sex so I felt like I had no choice but to tell him about it.

Bottom line is this-my husband is not a fan of the church…especially Catholics. I’ve seen little signs over the years (ex: rolling of the eyes when they collect money). Nothing anyone tells him is going to change his mind. He is stubborn. He flat out told me yesterday he is NOT interested in religion…first time he said that out loud.

Thank you for all the supportive words and advice. I most definitely appreciate it.:grouphug:

Redefine his idea of religion. Religion means “binding oneself to God”. (from the root words)

 

[Edward_H]

See a priest or a counselor…a good one, before pressing on.

You don’t want love to get all entangled in “religion”. He needs - over time - like 5 years - to learn more deeply about love and self-giving…and self-donation. And the only way I know is by your very slow and patient example. I am not an expert…but I wouldn’t let mechanics get priority over love…a loving relationship. Over time, he will learn about self-giving and NFP and the whole deal. Keep the transmission lines open. Otherwise no chance at love and learning and influence of example.

Have heroic patience and virtue with him. Desire to make him truly happy. God will work on him over time. Do this at God’s pace, not yours.

Don’t let things get ugly…let them get more giving. Don’t let him see ‘your religion’…let him slowly, sincerely, see your love - God’s Love. Make this a 5 year project. Talk to God about it. “Am I going too slow…what’s the best way to grow our marriage. How can I love him more. What is your will and what is your timetable, Lord”

Do this at God’s pace, not at some mechanical reading of the literature. This also is wonderful “raw material” for daily prayer. Let your cheerfulness and the things that attracted your husband to you in the first place… :>…be the things that draw you both closer to God, over time. You husband’s resistance, in my opinion, probably has lots of reasons that with prayer and patience, and your tireless loving example, will melt way. And his resistance/use of contraception, in my uneducated/un-authoritative opinion is not your sin. Don’t hold back loving him for this reason. Pleasing him, will, I believe, please God. But he will grow toward your loving example, over time.

 

[sojo]

Dailey - I have said a prayer for you and your situation. I think the NFP has been talked about a lot, so I’d like to offer you something to think about from an entirely different perspective.

I have a son with special needs and am very connected to the special needs advocacy community. I understand your concern about eventually taking care of a severely disabled adult sister on the autistic spectrum. From what I gather, this is your primary (only?) reason for dreading having a child? Is your husband open to a baby? You have no other children?

If indeed the care of your sister is what holds you in fear of a baby, perhaps you might consider… that when your sister eventually comes into your care, your baby might be an older child or teen. As such, not only will that child be an enormous blessing to you and offer you great comfort as you deal with the stress of being a caretaker to a disabled adult, but that child might also be an enormous help to you in handling chores, running errands, being an extra driver (if she/he is a teen), etc.

A child can be a normalizing factor in a household dealing with some of the stresses of taking care of an adult with severe disabilities. I had my son at 41 years old, and despite (or sometimes because of his disability and resulting sweet nature), he is already a help to me as I get older and stiffer. And his smile and delight in life lifts me up through the normal and inevitable bad days life throws me.

Finally, have you seriously looked into the care of your sister? In many States, there is a lot of help given in such instances. Your sister might do well in a small group home with behavioral services provided, and the dignity of an adult (despite disability) being secured by the State Dept. of Developmental Services. Your caretaking would not end, of course – you would visit and oversee, make sure services are provided, health maintained, finances in order. But times have changed, and the care of a disabled adult no longer need carry a near death sentence for the caretaker. Nor is keeping an adult in a home with no services and no chance to continue to grow and develop in the best interests of many adults with special needs.

And should you develop an illness or a disability, or need to care for your husband who might become ill or disabled, a young adult child could step in to look after you or your sister. Do not think of this as putting a burden on your child - it is a normal part of the life continuum and a great blessing.

So many times, what seems to scary and awful (like I felt when I got the prenatal diagnosis that my son would have Down syndrome), can turn into an enormous blessing. God truly has a plan for all of us, and if we can try to “be not afraid” as John Paul the Great reminded us, we are more easily able to leave ourselves open to the enormous blessings God has in mind for each of us.

Just a little more to think about.

Oh, and just remembered – I do not mean to be presumptuous, but it seems it would be helpful to work on your marriage through all of this - be loving and caring and kind. Let your husband see that having more God in your life is a GOOD thing for him, making you a better, more caring wife, rather than a constant hassle. I’m sure he is thinking, “now this anti-sex stuff, what is coming next down the pike?” Keep an eye out for a good Catholic counselor should your husband be open to marriage counseling down the road.

God bless!

 

[sojo]

I apologize for being so long-winded. Having a child with special needs, and then my work in special needs advocacy, meeting so many adults with disabilities and their families… well, it has really opened my eyes and changed my heart.

 

[dailey]

Thanks again for the responses.

To answer some questions, I already have 3 children, with my youngest being almost 2. I honestly just don’t want to have any more, neither does my husband. With my other 3, I always felt a deep desire for more but no longer feel that after the last one was born.

I would not consider putting my sister in a home…only would happen if I could not physically care for her (as in “death”, lol!). My grandmother cared for her son, who had down’s, till the day he died. She was in her eighties and was sharp as a whip! She died right after him.

Oh, and just for the record, I hope I am not portraying myself as some “wonderfully devoted wife” because that is NOT the case. I have a hot temper, quick to judge and can cuss better than any sailor. Friends of ours probably think my husband is a saint (typical “nice guy”) and I’m the bad one! At any rate, just felt like putting that out there so as not to give the wrong impression. I will take all of your advice and talk with a priest about this, pray for my husband, and pray for me!

 

[snowbee]

I will take all of your advice and talk with a priest about this, pray for my husband, and pray for me!

I’ll be praying for you Dailey, stay strong.

 

[dailey]

I’ll be praying for you Dailey, stay strong.

Thank you snowbee!

And I misspoke earlier, my husband is Presbyterian, not Protestant, oops!

 

[jmcrae]

Well, my intentions were not to spring this on him. However, he wanted to have sex so I felt like I had no choice but to tell him about it.

It is okay to remove the bad habit slowly. It is not necessary to give it up all at once - this will be a journey for both of you to take, together. Don’t refuse him sex, even if he wants to use a condom.

Gradually you can start telling him, “I did my plan today and I see that I’m not fertile, so we don’t have to bother with the condom, today.” He will then see that sex without the condom is so much more intimate and free.

He will then be the one asking, “Do I need the condom today?” Over time, he will become interested in learning about how your body works, and he will see how it promotes his own self-interest, to know whether you are fertile or not. That’s when he will become interested in helping you take your temperature, and helping you write your charts - and suddenly, there you will be, doing NFP as a couple.

 

[jawgee]

Dailey, I am keeping you in my prayers.

I find it no small coincidence that you have been praying to be a better wife and that God led you to this board and discussions of NFP! Your marriage can benefit so much from the use of NFP. I pray that your husband will become open to it. I really believe that NFP is a fortress for your marriage.

I will agree, as some other people have mentioned, that NFP should be used only for serious reasons. Reasons that are “serious”, though, are something only you and your husband can decide.

May God be with both of you on this journey.

 

[floresco]

I understand how important sex is for men but, just for the record, my husband puts it before all else. In other words, its his god. And I don’t think I am exaggerating when I say that. We don’t spend time together having talks, going out for dinner, long walks, Nothing…

From what I have read, it is common for women to perceive a husband that way. The explanation I’ve seen is that men often express and receive love through sex. So sex for him is the equivalent of talks, walks and romance for you. Would you say that romance is your “god”? I doubt it. You would probably say that you want love expressed in your marriage. Typically, that is what a man is doing when he expresses a lot of sexual interest in his wife. He wants your love. (The Dr. Laura book that I mentioned earlier explains this sort of thing.) Both spouses need to learn to express love in ways that that the other one “gets”.

I tried talking to him again about ABC being a mortal sin and all he does is roll his eyes. He is so disgusted with the church right now because he thinks I’m being brainwashed. He actually thinks I’m going above and beyond what most people are doing for their faith??

Oh well, I’m not gonna be a sinner just to please him. And to top it off, its our anniversary today…and he forgot…again.

Any study I have ever heard of on the subject shows that a large majority of Catholics do not obey/agree with the Church teaching on birth control. So your husband is right about that. Of course, just because other people disobey is no reason for you to.

As several people have already said, you are not being a sinner if he is the one using the condom. The advice you received from jmcrae about how to gradually introduce him to NFP was very good and consistent with Church teaching. The way you are handling this is not right. It is not fair to your husband and is creating an obstacle to him joining the Church.

 

[PAboy57]

Thanks again for the responses.

To answer some questions, I already have 3 children, with my youngest being almost 2. I honestly just don’t want to have any more, neither does my husband. With my other 3, I always felt a deep desire for more but no longer feel that after the last one was born.

I would not consider putting my sister in a home…only would happen if I could not physically care for her (as in “death”, lol!). My grandmother cared for her son, who had down’s, till the day he died. She was in her eighties and was sharp as a whip! She died right after him.

Oh, and just for the record, I hope I am not portraying myself as some “wonderfully devoted wife” because that is NOT the case. I have a hot temper, quick to judge and can cuss better than any sailor. Friends of ours probably think my husband is a saint (typical “nice guy”) and I’m the bad one! At any rate, just felt like putting that out there so as not to give the wrong impression. I will take all of your advice and talk with a priest about this, pray for my husband, and pray for me!

Dear Daily,

No need to blush as many of us have been there and back. Regardless “Someone” is opening your heart and soul to be receptive. I have been reading the advice of many of the senior members and have found it sound. There are some other smart cookies also on this website. They truly care and want to help you. You are on a journey that requires help and Grace. Please follow through with the priestly advice and I encourage you to begin praying the Rosary every day you can as it is a most powerful prayer to Our Lady and she will lead you in the right direction – Jesus. I know it changed my life and I was kind of nasty at times. For starters I offer up this prayer for you. May you continue your prayer life as Jesus and Mary want you to come to them always and especially in times of need. They have been know to open many a hardened heart. May God shower you and your family with Blessings.

MEMORARE,
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession, was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother. To thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen

 

[Robert_Burns]

Yes, but contrast that to what he said earlier in Progressio Populorum:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_26031967_populorum_en.html

Robert: I see no contrast. Natural Family Planning would be within the confines of “Moral” and the use of Condoms would not.

 

[GIR]

Thanks!

Just talked to my husband about this and like expected, he was pretty annoyed. He seems to think I’m a “holy roller” now and not fulfilling my wifely duty. He’s told me in the past that he doesn’t care if I cook, clean, etc. As long as we have sex then he is happy. Geeze, who even thinks like that??

Well, I’d say you should pray for your husband. It don’t feel comfortable giving advice, seeing as how I’m pretty much a confirmed bachelor, but… well I’ll just shut up. All I can say is pray that your husband comes around.

Maybe the first thing to do is get him interested in going to church. Again, I don’t have much competence here.

 

[crazzeto]

Well, I’d say you should pray for your husband. It don’t feel comfortable giving advice, seeing as how I’m pretty much a confirmed bachelor, but… well I’ll just shut up. All I can say is pray that your husband comes around.

Maybe the first thing to do is get him interested in going to church. Again, I don’t have much competence here.

You are on the right track with your advice.

 

[Phemie]

What happens when you get older wrinklier and saggier (happens to all of us), and so less sexually attractive?

The good thing is that the eyesight starts to go too.