This is Islam

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In the name of Allah

Elizabeth: What about when God talked to Moses (may he rest in peace)? Are the writings of Mohammad (may he rest in peace) the same as when He gave the 10 Commandments to the Jewish people?

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Jermin Savory:** Similar, but the Commandments of the Torah is In detail contained in the quran to the Prophet (P) from Allah.
 
Jermin Savory:
Similar, but the Commandments of the Torah is In detail contained in the quran to the Prophet (P) from Allah.
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I’m not certain I understand what you have written. Are you saying the Holy Quran is more detailed then the Holy Torah? The Holy Torah has 613 Mitzvahs (laws) if I’m correct. How many are in the Holy Quran?

Thank you,
Elizabeth
 
In the name of Allah

Tarashley: Can someone please tell me why your faith thinks that it is ok for a man to beat his wife(s) and why she is treated like property. i have known a muslimah and her husband before.

Jermin Savory: Why do Christian men bause their women? Why do they drink and abuse their women after that? The same Quesion I will pose to you. Islam doesn’t allow the beating of wives. Neither does islam teach to be abusive to the women.

Tar Ashley: after befriending her and learning about her faith, i can honestly say i thank GOD and CHRIST and MARY and the HOLY SPIRIT that i am married to a GOD FEARING CATHOLIC man, who loves and cherishes and respects me.

Jermin Savory: Our Qur’an doesn’t teach to beat or silence our women but why does your bible teach in 1 Corinthians 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”

Tar ashley: why are women not allowed to be free, to be individuals, to think and feel and act and do. why do they have to cover their bodies that God made for them? please explain this to me.

Jermin Savory: Qur’an doesn’t teach any of the points that you’'ve raised about, contrary your bible teaches in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
 
In the name of Allah

Elizabeth: I’m not certain I understand what you have written. Are you saying the Holy Quran is more detailed then the Holy Torah? The Holy Torah has 613 Mitzvahs (laws) if I’m correct. How many are in the Holy Quran?

Jemin Savory: I never said that the Qur’an was more or less detailed than the torah, the Qur’an is a confirmation to what remained in tact of the Scriptures.
 
Jermin Savory:
I never said that the Qur’an was more or less detailed than the torah, the Qur’an is a confirmation to what remained in tact of the Scriptures.
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Okay, thank you for clearing that up. I misunderstood what you meant to say.

Can you answer another question for me? How do you know Jesus is not the Son of God? Does it say in the Holy Quran? Could you tell me where I might find a copy, or go online to read more?

Peace to you,
Elizabeth
 
In the name of Allah

Elizabeth, you seem to be sincere in your responses and questions, why don’t you visit Whyislam.org and discuss with us while you learn islam?
 
In the name of Allah
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Elizabeth:** How do you know Jesus is not the Son of God? Does it say in the Holy Quran? Could you tell me where I might find a copy, or go online to read more?

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Jermin Savory:** The Qur’an is my divine source of knowledge and besides, one doesn’t need the Qur’an to know that Jesus (P) is not the son of God. You can obtain your own copy of the Qur’an by simply going to whyislam.org or call 1877-whyislam (1877-949-47529 and besides getting answers to your questions, you will be able to get your own copy of the Qur’an. May Allah guide you through your questions…
 
It’s nice to see such an open dialogue. As a married man I would like to add my thoughts to multiple wives.

I believe men and women are EXACTLY equal in God’s eyes. In other words, He loves both equally. That being said, why would He choose to allow one man to try and divide his love among four women?

You cannot love four women. If you think you can, you do not understand love. What some think is love may, in fact, be lust. And that is not the work of God.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Elizabeth, you seem to be sincere in your responses and questions, why don’t you visit Whyislam.org and discuss with us while you learn islam?
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I have visited the site you mentioned but I’m not ready to post there, at this time. I need to understand your faith more first and speak to my husband about it. Thank you for the invitation. Also because I am so rooted in Jesus Christ as Lord, I do not think I could ever denounce Him. He has been so good to me. He would need to be speaking to my heart to tell me that He is not my Lord, in One with The Father and Holy Spirit.

Still I like what I have read from those who have posted here, in defense of Islam, and its precepts sound sincere also. I need to be prudent, which is totally out of my character, but vitally important.

To love The Lord our God with all my mind, heart and strength; the first command given to Moses (may he rest in peace), is my goal.

Peace to you,
Elizabeth
 
In the name of Allah
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Iamrefreshed:** I believe men and women are EXACTLY equal in God’s eyes. In other words, He loves both equally. That being said, why would He choose to allow one man to try and divide his love among four women?
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Jermin Savory:** Yes, in islam we believe man and women are equal in the sight of God. In islam, Allah shows the believers that he loves them all equally. Question, Iamrefreshed, do you treat all of your children equally? Do you divide you love equally among your kids? God knows its impossible, but he still tells his believers to not give up. It is more than possible to be a good lover to more than one women but on the other hand, since it is impossible, the verses of the Qur’an still say, BUT! do not give up all together.

Iamrefreshed: You cannot love four women. If you think you can, you do not understand love. What some think is love may, in fact, be lust. And that is not the work of God.

Jermin Savory: Likewise, if you think you can love all of your children or family equally, you don’t understand love. Iamrefreshed, so I guess you are saying it is not the work of God if you can’t love all of your children equally right?
 
In the name of Allah

Elizabeth: To love The Lord our God with all my mind, heart and strength; the first command given to Moses (may he rest in peace), is my goal.

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Jermin Savory:** You sound like a Muslim, you went on to talk about the first of all commandments. Which is, the lord thy God is One. At this time of Moses, the word trinity or concept of a triune God was not in existance so do you know that when you say or repeat that specific commandment you are testifying that there is only one God? As Muslims, we believe in the absolute Oneness of God.
 
Jermin,

Again, I thank you for your peaceful discussion. I am truly enjoying learning about Islam “from the horse’s mouth”, so to speak. I belive it is the will of God that we understand eachother more clearly, so that we can do His will more perfectly on earth.

That said…

Jermin Savory said:
RyanL: These are what we call the “religious”, or “sisters/brothers/nuns/monks”. They consecrate themselves to God, in the same way as Elija, Elisha, John the Baptist, Jesus, and Mary (all from your tradition).
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Jermin Savory:** Is that right according to the law? is that theologically right?
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Are you saying that Elija, Elisha, John the Baptist, Jesus, and Mary were all sinning against Allah by not being married?

Jermin Savory said:
** Jermin Savory:**My point is that, overall, women are more than man and this is a fact that can be proven why scientifically and logically with statistics of war and health. They’re only a few countries that men have actually by little outnumber women but my argument is that, the Majority of the worlds countries are overpopulated by women.
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That’s fine on a global level, but it doesn’t solve the problem of the few countries that the men outnumber the women. What is the solution of the Qur’an?
Jermin Savory: Our Qur’an doesn’t teach to beat or silence our women but why does your bible teach in 1 Corinthians 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
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Jermin Savory: Qur’an doesn’t teach any of the points that you’'ve raised about, contrary your bible teaches in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
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This is very good that you are looking to the New Testament as a source of authority! You misunderstand the references, however. The real issue is women and their role in the Church.
While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (cf. 1 Cor. 11:1–16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (cf. 1 Tim. 2:11–14), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (cf. 1 Cor. 14:34–38). Nonetheless, Paul vigorously upholds the equality of men and women (cf. Gal 3:28).
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This link further addresses the issue:
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0311frs.asp
You have thrown out a Red Herring. This will not work with those who know their faith / theology. What you assert is the position of the Catholic Church is not, in fact, the position of the Catholic Church. If you really want to discuss this more, a new thread would probably be appropriate.

Again, I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions. May God’s work be perfected on earth!

RyanL
 
Ryanl: Are you saying that Elija, Elisha, John the Baptist, Jesus, and Mary were all sinning against Allah by not being married?

Jermin Savory: No, you have misunderstood my points. The above mentioned people never stated what you’ve stated so why are you bringing them into the equation of something that you believe in. I never said there was something wrong with being single. Neither is it a crime to stay single.

Ryanl: That’s fine on a global level, but it doesn’t solve the problem of the few countries that the men outnumber the women. What is the solution of the Qur’an?

Jermin Savory: The solution of the Qur’an for the few countries where men outnumber the quran is to implement the Qur’an in its societies and problems will dismiss themselves. Why? Because the Qur’an in Surah 17:31 “Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin.” Islam prohibits the killing of girl babies. Islam forbids the practive of abortion. With these three solutions implemented in the societies of the male dominated, God knows how many more females would have been alive today especially in these countries.
 
In the name of Allah

Ryanl: This is very good that you are looking to the New Testament as a source of authority! You misunderstand the references, however. The real issue is women and their role in the Church.

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Jermin Savory:** No, I did not misunderstand the verse, the verse clearly states "in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” There is no science behind the understanding of the verses. Not to mention that there is no context explaining this ill treatment of women.
 
In the name of Allah

Ryan: You have thrown out a Red Herring. This will not work with those who know their faith / theology. What you assert is the position of the Catholic Church is not, in fact, the position of the Catholic Church. If you really want to discuss this more, a new thread would probably be appropriate.

Jermin Savory: Ryan, a red herring is something to stare someone of of a tipic, my verses were firmly established with the subject, thus consistent with the topic at hand. Please show me that I’ve strayed away from the topic by evidence please.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah
Jermin Savory: Our Qur’an doesn’t teach to beat or silence our women but why does your bible teach in 1 Corinthians 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
Jermin Savory: Qur’an doesn’t teach any of the points that you’'ve raised about, contrary your bible teaches in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
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First, in verse 34, Paul makes it quite clear that the commands for women to keep silent in the churches is not a product of his culture or his own personal feelings, rather, it is “as the Law also says.” Immediately following, he adds the phrase “the word of God” in verse 36 showing that “the Law” to which he makes reference is indeed God’s law, not man’s. As regards the “Law,” Paul could be referring to any number of references in the Old Testament, including Genesis 3:16’s injunctions against Eve, or Isaiah’s lament in Is 3:12: “O my people! Their oppressors are children, and women rule over them. O my people, those who guide you lead you astray and confuse the direction of your paths.” in 1 Timothy 2:11-14. As Paul commands women to be quiet and not to teach or have authority over men, he bases his words not on anything having to do with the culture in which he lived, rather, as he did in 1 Cor 14:34-35, he immediately goes back to the original divine mandates. In 1 Tim 2:13, Paul’s first line of substantiation is the fact that: “…it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.” In other words, the order in which the first humans were created set for all time who would be in authority and who would be in submission. These are teachings that women should not teach in church…correct me if I am wrong but this is the same in Islam isnt it?
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Iamrefreshed: I believe men and women are EXACTLY equal in God’s eyes. In other words, He loves both equally. That being said, why would He choose to allow one man to try and divide his love among four women?

Jermin Savory: Yes, in islam we believe man and women are equal in the sight of God. In islam, Allah shows the believers that he loves them all equally. Question, Iamrefreshed, do you treat all of your children equally? Do you divide you love equally among your kids? God knows its impossible, but he still tells his believers to not give up. It is more than possible to be a good lover to more than one women but on the other hand, since it is impossible, the verses of the Qur’an still say, BUT! do not give up all together.

Iamrefreshed: You cannot love four women. If you think you can, you do not understand love. What some think is love may, in fact, be lust. And that is not the work of God.

Jermin Savory: Likewise, if you think you can love all of your children or family equally, you don’t understand love. Iamrefreshed, so I guess you are saying it is not the work of God if you can’t love all of your children equally right?
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Thank you for your response Jermin. It is good to hear from you again. No, I do not love my children equally, but differently. However, my love for my children is COMPLETELY different from the love for my wife, As is for the love of my parents, sisters, brothers and God. And even for my new Muslim friends. All different. Beside my love for God, my wife holds a place above all. Not to be shared among many. Peace.
 
These are teachings that women should not teach in church…correct me if I am wrong but this is the same in Islam isnt it?

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Jermin Savory:** The Women in islam are well and out spoken in their views. Ofcorse they’re are no women to give the lectures on the friday lecture day. But islam doesn’t teach to silent them as you Bible does. Contrary, islam has many female scholars who are very busy in the islamic world who are speaking infront of thousands of men.

Islam suppressing the women is a big Misconception held by the west.
 
In the name of Allah

Iamrefreshed: No, I do not love my children equally, but differently. However, my love for my children is COMPLETELY different from the love for my wife, As is for the love of my parents, sisters, brothers and God. And even for my new Muslim friends. All different. Beside my love for God, my wife holds a place above all. Not to be shared among many.

Jermin Savory: The aim is the point of equality in love for more than one person. And this is impossible as even Allah in the Qur’an say. But he still reminds us to strive and try to please them equally. If someone tells me I can’t do something or it is impossible to do something, i will try my best to do it and if God will, i will accomplish it. Likewise, is someone tells me I can’t take care of my two children equally that one doesn’t get man at me for favoring the other more I will tell them its hard but I’m not going to give up, i’ll keep striving to take care of them by giving each of them the same things in value.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Dennis: But I thought alone God is eternal? Are you not attributing an aspect of God to something other than God?

Jermin Savory: You are confusing yourself. We as Muslims believe in the Qur’an to be the world of Allah, thus Allah’s words are eternal, which means it is not time bound or restricted to a certain group of people in time. It will be followed for the rest of eternity. And no Dennis, Allah’s word is not an attribute.
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Does the Qur’an exist apart from God? If it does, and is eternal, you have two seperately existing things that are eternal, God and the Qur’an.

Either the Qur’an exists in God and is a part of God, or it is seperate and exists with God. If it is eternal and seperate and exists with God, I see no reason for Muslims having a problem with the Christian concept of the Word of God as found in John 1.

Peace
 
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