This is Islam

[r.gonzales]

greetings.

i haven’t read much of the discussion as of yet, but i thought i’d reply to two of the earlier posts that were made…

Eden:

It’s my understanding that Muslims believe in an “anti-Messiah” which is also called the “anti-Christ” yet you do not recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of God. How do Muslims reconcile the use of the word “Messiah” without Christ being divine?

muslims do not believe that God has a son, a daughter, a partner or an equal. the 3rd last chapter of the Quran, soorah al-ikhlaas says, “say: He is Allah, [He is] one. Allah is the Everlasting. He does not beget, nor was He begotten, and there is no one comparable to Him.” these are just some of the verses that muslims take this belief from.

as for the word messiah and its meaning:

Eden:

No Messiah/Christ does not necessarily mean “divinity”. This is the Christian understanding of the Christ. Messiah for the Judaic tradition simply means “redeemer”. I assume that is the same for Islam. Could you please explain the Muslim understanding of Jesus Christ as prophet and his relationship to Moses and Muhammed. I’m unclear as to the Islamic definition of anti-Christ and I thought an understanding of your interpretation of Christ would help.

throughout the Quran, the title given to Jesus is “al-maseeh” which means “the anointed”. it comes from the verb masaha, which means to stroke with the hand or to wipe off or away, to anoint. to my understanding, and God knows best, is that the words messiah and christ mean the same thing; messiah being the hebrew equivalent and christ being the greek (being taken from the word christos).

as for the “anti-christ”, in arabic the term is “al-maseeh ad-dajjaal”, which literally means, “the false messiah”. dajjaal in the arabic language means “cheater”, “swindler”, “imposter” and in this term it is being used as an adjective of al-maseeh, which as stated earlier, means “the anointed”. muslim belief about this individual is that near the end of time, he will come and claim kingship. after that, he will claim prophethood. after that, he will claim to be God. he is one eyed and has the word “kaafir” (which means disbeliever) written on his forehead. he will have many followers, and will appear to have various powers and abilities; among these bringing the dead to life.

as for muslim belief regarding Jesus as a prophet, then the Quran mentions that Jesus is only a prophet and messenger of God, just like the prophets and messengers who came before him. he is from the same lineage as Moses, and distant relatives with Muhammad. Muhammad comes from Ishmael’s line, whereas Jesus and Moses came from Isaac’s line, both of whom were sons of Abraham as is known.

i’m not sure if any of this answers your questions, but i hope it helps.

peace.

 

[LuigiColetta]

r.gonzales:

…as for the “anti-christ”, in arabic the term is “al-maseeh ad-dajjaal”, which literally means, “the false messiah”. dajjaal in the arabic language means “cheater”, “swindler”, “imposter” and in this term it is being used as an adjective of al-maseeh, which as stated earlier, means “the anointed”. muslim belief about this individual is that near the end of time, he will come and claim kingship. after that, he will claim prophethood. after that, he will claim to be God. he is one eyed and has the word “kaafir” (which means disbeliever) written on his forehead. he will have many followers, and will appear to have various powers and abilities; among these bringing the dead to life…

Is this in the Qur’an? If not, which muslims believe in this? Or is it that most Muslims belive in this, but not all? since it isn’t explicitly in the Qur’an?

P.S. Also, is the name Mohammed (MHRIP) or Muhammed (MHRIP) the correct name? I saw both spellings from muslim brother and sisters…I would like to spell his name correctly!

 

[Booklover]

deen:

Hi sg,

The name of this religion is Islam, the root of which is Silm and Salam which means peace.

Baloney! Islam DOES NOT MEAN PEACE! It means SUBMISSION! Muslims tell us that to make us believe Islam is a peaceful religion, but it is nothing of the kind and never has been.

 

[TarAshly]

**DEEN: **the only faith based on the truth, is Catholicism. It is the ONE TRUE CHURCH. begun by Jesus Christ himself. never broken away or faded from tradition. it is what it is. the Truth. you want truth? i suggest you look into your local RCIA classes. they have all the truth you need right there. i dont say this to defame you or be cruel. i say this in hopes of leading you to Christ, your savior. and home to the Catholic Church.

God Bless.

 

[dennisknapp]

deen:

Until this time, Muslims are waiting for the ultimate proof from the :

**GOSPEL ACCORDING to JESUS **(peace be upon him) where he said:

" I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME "

Is there one or none?

thx,

deen

deen,

You never responded to my previous post when I said:

Does the Qur’an exist apart from God? If it does, and is eternal, you have two seperately existing things that are eternal, God and the Qur’an.

Either the Qur’an exists in God and is a part of God, or it is seperate and exists with God. If it is eternal and seperate and exists with God, I see no reason for Muslims having a problem with the Christian concept of the Word of God as found in John 1.

Peace

 

[deen]

In Defense of Mary the Virgin
By Mustafa Akyol

In their recent books entitled Mary: The Mother of Jesus and Mary: A Dogmatic Journey, two “Catholic” writers, the journalist Jacques Duquesne and the theologian Dominique Cerbelaud, display an overt disbelief in the virginity of Mary the mother of Jesus Christ. Mr. Duquesne argues that it is a belief that is “not compatible with science.” Mr. Cerbelaud asserts that the faith in the virgin birth came about “for reasons that spring from collective psychology.”

I believe both arguments to be inconsistent and based on a flawed understanding of science. Before explaining these, however, let me elaborate on why the virgin birth matters for me—since some non-Muslims might wonder why a Muslim cares about this controversy at all.

read full article:

In Defense of Mary the Virgin

peace to all,

deen

 

[Moses]

hello all

Deen you say that Jesus our Lord did not say He is God "**GOSPEL ACCORDING to JESUS (peace be upon him) where he ** I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME "
now im asking my self have you ever read the Holy Bible???

the gospels where inspired by the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God.

gospel of john chapter 14
7) If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him.
8) Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us.
9) Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?
10) Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works
11) Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

lets also add in a prophecy of isaia
For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace

i mean if that is not clear enough you must have some kind of understanding problem.

 

[deen]

Moses:

hello all

Deen you say that Jesus our Lord did not say He is God "**GOSPEL ACCORDING to JESUS (peace be upon him) where he ** I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME "
now im asking my self have you ever read the Holy Bible???

the gospels where inspired by the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God.

gospel of john chapter 14
7) If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him.
8) Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us.
9) Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?
10) Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works
11) Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

lets also add in a prophecy of isaia
For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace

i mean if that is not clear enough you must have some kind of understanding problem.

In other words…There is still no statement from Jesus himself that he is divine. Thanks for proving that. No wonder there is a lot of conversions from Christianity to Islam. Please see “Why Islam” thread.

peace,

deen

 

[RyanL]

deen:

In other words…There is still no statement from Jesus himself that he is divine. Thanks for proving that. No wonder there is a lot of conversions from Christianity to Islam. Please see “Why Islam” thread.

deen,

How many times are you going to make me post this?!?
Jn 1;1 - the Word was God
Jn 1:14-15 - glory of Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth
Jn 8:19 - if you knew me, you would know my Father
**Jn 8:58-59 - I assure you, before Abraham was, I AM **
**Jn 10:30-33 - the Father and I are one (see Ex 3:14, 20:7; Lev 19:12, 24:14-16) **
**Jn 10:38 - the Father is in me and I am in the Father **
Jn 12:45 - whosoever sees me sees the one who sent me
Jn 14:8-12 - whoever had seen has seen the Father
Jn 20:28 - Jesus accepts Thomas’s "my Lord and my God"
Col 2:9 - in him dwells whole fullness of deity bodily
Acts 20:28 - church of God he acquired with his blood
Eph 1:7 - in him we have redemption by his blood
1Jn 1:7 - blood of his Son Jesus cleanses from all sin
Tit 2;13 - glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

Would you PLEASE stop your ridiculous and childish nonsense? The New Testament clearly teaches that Jesus is God, and Jesus allows it! Jesus refers to himself with the DIVINE TITLE in John 8:58-59. Explain ALL of the above verses if you would continue with your nonsense!

RyanL

 

[Deus_Vult]

**
In Defense of Mary the Virgin**
By Mustafa Akyol

In their recent books entitled Mary: The Mother of Jesus and Mary: A Dogmatic Journey, two “Catholic” writers, the journalist Jacques Duquesne and the theologian Dominique Cerbelaud, display an overt disbelief in the virginity of Mary the mother of Jesus Christ. Mr. Duquesne argues that it is a belief that is “not compatible with science.” Mr. Cerbelaud asserts that the faith in the virgin birth came about “for reasons that spring from collective psychology.”

I believe both arguments to be inconsistent and based on a flawed understanding of science. Before explaining these, however, let me elaborate on why the virgin birth matters for me—since some non-Muslims might wonder why a Muslim cares about this controversy at all.

read full article:

In Defense of Mary the Virgin

peace to all,

deen

I am pleased to hear you belief this truth…it is of course in your Quran…but how is this related to the topic?

 

[TarAshly]

deen:

In other words…There is still no statement from Jesus himself that he is divine. Thanks for proving that. No wonder there is a lot of conversions from Christianity to Islam. Please see “Why Islam” thread.

peace,

deen

Yes he did. “I am the way and the truth and the life”

when asked if he was the son of God, he replied yes.

Christ new who He was, and when he came back after the resurrection, He made it abundantly clear who He was. and when He returns in Glory to judge the living and the dead, there will be no doubt in ANYONES heart of who He is. and His kingdom will have NO END! what a beautiful day that will be! Im with the other poster on this one. Deen, have you ever read the Bible??

 

[tom.wineman]

Anybody that believes Islam is a peaceful religion is not only opened minded but empty head because all of their brains leaked out of their open mind.

---

Over a thousand years of history more than proves that. Mohammed himself was a warrior.
If you were to preach this Islamic heresy in Mohammed’s home town today you would have your head chopped off.
Try it.

 

[LuigiColetta]

deen:

In other words…There is still no statement from Jesus himself that he is divine. Thanks for proving that. No wonder there is a lot of conversions from Christianity to Islam. Please see “Why Islam” thread.

peace,

deen

Deen,

Are you a serious Muslim? I mean, look at the honesty Jermin Savory responds to the question about the Bible saying that Jesus is God. He just answers: “So as you can see, the Qur’an views these writings of “Jesus” (P) to not be the real writings of Jesus. (P) The Qur’an states that the people have went to the extreemes in their religion and writing things that are not apart of the writings of Jesus. (P)”

For you to write that the proof you are seeking is not in the Bible is to say that you are not honestly reading the verses. Are you being serious or are you just pretending?

Please, review my earlierst post (POST 319), the one post before the one you quoted me on. I just mentioned a few verses, which are very explicit. Go one by one if you will. I assume that your main language is english, but if it isn’t, tell us which it is and I will find those verses in your language…

With the seal of God’s Holy Spirit,

Luigi

 

[r.gonzales]

greetings.

LuigiColetta:

Is this in the Qur’an? If not, which muslims believe in this? Or is it that most Muslims belive in this, but not all? since it isn’t explicitly in the Qur’an?

the coming of the false messiah is not mentioned in the Quran - at least, not that i know of. from what i know, and God knows best, his coming and the trials and tribulations that accompany it are mentioned in the prophetic hadeeth (narrations and reports conveying the statements, actions, descriptions and tacit approvals of prophet muhammad).

LuigiColetta:

P.S. Also, is the name Mohammed (MHRIP) or Muhammed (MHRIP) the correct name? I saw both spellings from muslim brother and sisters…I would like to spell his name correctly!)

being that there aren’t any real “correct” spellings for arabic names and words using roman letters, both are “correct” to an extent. the first letter in the name muhammad, which is a meem, carries a dumma which makes a short u sound, so technically, what’s more correct from the two would be “muhammad”. but like i said, there’s no real “right” or “wrong” since there is no standard transliteration method that everyone uses.

peace.

 

[LuigiColetta]

ءﺎﻴﻌﺷﺃ 17Does this mean 17 John in Arabic? (It is Modern Standard dialect of the Arabic, Standard language)

Got my answer, it is Isaiah, not John…

ﺎﻨﺣﻮﻳ is John…

 

[LuigiColetta]

r.gonzales:

greetings…peace.

Thank you. And may the Great Allah bless you.

Your brother,

Luigi

 

[hlgomez]

in islam a man can beat his wife the same way the bible tells men to beat their wive; with a stick no bigger than their thumb.

Fatuma,

Where is that in the Bible?

Pio

 

[hlgomez]

Until this time, Muslims are waiting for the ultimate proof from the :

**GOSPEL ACCORDING to JESUS **(peace be upon him) where he said:

" I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME "

Is there one or none?

thx,

deen

Deen and Munawar,

Revelation 21: 6-8
He said to me, “They are accomplished. I (am) the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water. The victor will inherit these gifts, and** I shall be his God**, and he will be my son. But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 22:12-16
“Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit. “I, Jesus, sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star.”

Revelation 19:11-16
Then I saw the heavens opened, and there was a white horse; its rider was (called)** “Faithful and True.”** He judges and wages war in righteousness. His eyes were (like) a fiery flame, and on his head were many diadems. He had a name inscribed that no one knows except himself. He wore a cloak that had been dipped in blood, and his name was called the Word of God. The armies of heaven followed him, mounted on white horses and wearing clean white linen. Out of his mouth came a sharp sword to strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod, and he himself will tread out in the wine press the wine of the fury and wrath of God the almighty. He has a name written on his cloak and on his thigh, **“King of kings and Lord of lords.” **

Revelation 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega,"** says the Lord God, “the one who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty.”**

Revelation 1:17-18
When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. He touched me with his right hand and said, "Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last, the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever. I hold the keys to death and the netherworld.

These are the words of Jesus Himself.

Pio

 

[LuigiColetta]

hlgomez:

Fatuma,

Where is that in the Bible?

Pio

Hlgomez, in defense of Fatuma, I believe He/She (sorry Fatuma, I am not sure if He or She) retracted those statements in a very honest way. (I count at least twice)

 

[hlgomez]

Deen and Munawar,

Here is more:

Jesus Christ Claims to be God

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, “You heard it said…but I say to you…”

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, “Lord, Lord.” Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself “Lord.” “The Lord has need of them.”

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God “Abba,” Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus’ unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said “tell how much God has done for you.” And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, “whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”

John 6:38 - Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

John 8:12 - Jesus says “I am the light of the world.” - 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, “if you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Exodus 3:14 - “I AM” means “Yahweh,” which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, “I and the Father are one.” They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus’ statement in John 14:28, “the Father is greater than I,” cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus’ statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is “the Son of God.”

John 10:38; 14:10 - “the Father is in me and I am in the Father” means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, “He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.” God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, “all things that the Father has are Mine.” Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that “He came from the Father and has come into the world.”

John 17:5,24 - Jesus’ desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying “My Father and your Father.”

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the “Alpha and the Omega.” In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the “Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, “I am the First and the Last.” This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says “I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore.” When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God. Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, “The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life.” When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Pio