This is not the place for intelligent debate

[confuzed]

Prejudice isn’t solely aimed at the Catholics. And it’s even sometimes practiced by Catholics.
Try being born Jewish in the 50’s. My first grade class sang songs like Oh Little Town of Bethlehem at Christmas. I felt like a freak because I was the only kid who didn’t know the words!

The thing about prejudice is that everyone has to overcome it. We all seem to think our religion is the best and it doesn’t take long in a debate for some people to start trashing others. No matter my church, if I call someone else an idiot because they don’t agree with my precious point of view, that’s a character issue. That has nothing to do with Christ.

I meet a LOT of Catholics that are just as smug about their church as any Protestant ever hopes to be. That is not Christianity, in my opinion, whether it came from Luther or Peter or who holds any keys.

And what difference does it make when you think your church was ‘founded’ or by whom? They’re all long dead and God doesn’t have any grandchildren!

Do you think I need the history of Peter and a dissertation on the word Petra for Jesus to speak to me today? Do you think no one can be a Christian except through a certain church?

Do you think that when you bicker over who really owns Jesus in the real presence that God is in that?

And whoever thinks someone named Guy Doud is the last word in conversions, surely you’re aware that a lot of Catholics convert to Protestantism. That door swings both ways.

I don’t think it matters what pew your fanny is warming on Sunday morning. Jesus knows those who are His.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That I had hoped it could be.

People here with a brain and a clue are few and far between, and people with a clue, a brain and the ability to process information reliably as well as articulate a response are almost nonexistent.

As for me, I’m gonna get going.

I’ve had my fill for a while, the likelihood of me reverting now is nil again for a while. If I feel the urge to do so again, I may be back.

But, before I go, let me encourage you to break out of your ghetto. You’re imprisoned in a neighborhood you’ve built for yourself. Very few Protestants actually hate you,

Compared to some of the real scholars in here, I could reasonably be described as one of those “without a brain and a clue”. I am not as articulate as they are. But there are some few things I know very well, either by experience or study. As much as it may sometimes seem so, this is not a forum restricted to scholars. I, for one, appreciate being able to see some of them in verbal action. I am sure I have said some stupid, inaccurate things. So have others, including some obvious scholars. Nobody can be an expert at all things, and most of us only have a few real good things to offer, and those things are not always intellectual.

Second point, and maybe this is a minor insight I have had. In my family, we have a saying; that when someone imposes on the love another has, in order to gain power over them, that someone is “holding himself hostage”. “If (or because) you will/won’t do so and so or approve such and such, I will do something obviously harmful to myself.” (e.g., quit school, move out, not eat, etc., etc.,etc.) So, we don’t behave in here or evidence the scholarship Steadfast feels is of sufficient scale, or act in an emotional way sometimes, he tells us he is going to distance himself from the Church. I don’t wish to be ugly with Steadfast here, but that really is a case of “holding oneself hostage”. Everyone in here wants the best for him/her, and if one or more of us feels this or that is best for him/her, then he/she should take it as it is intended, not use it as a way to beat up the one who means him/her well.

Finally, I agree that very few protestants hate us. I live in the Bible Belt. Most of my associates, employees and customers are protestants. I admire many protestants for their faith, particularly the fundamentalists, as tough on Catholicism as they sometimes are. I don’t beat up even those protestants who are dependant on my good will with religion. But if one brings up religion, I am going to tell him or her what I believe, and I am going to be unashamed about it, and I am not going to deceive him or her about that fact.
I guess I live in a ghetto; not physically, but spiritually. I do because I believe in the Church with all my heart and soul. I am not much of a thologian, but I have had some education in theology and philosophy, though I think sometimes that literature is the richest source of spiritual wisdom. I have been proselytized to the point of near unconsciousness, and have read all sorts of anti-Catholic information, and, to put it plain, I am just not convinced by any of it. So, eventually, one does often end up in a spiritual ghetto, simply because one is convinced, and the familiar old contrary arguments simply aren’t even interesting anymore. Some newer ones can be, and do motivate one to do some research. But I will say (without mentioning identities) that some do dissemble, and that is irritating to the point that sometimes one does get a bit emotional about it.

 

[D.R.R]

That I had hoped it could be.

What I see more than anything else is ridicule, hatred and a real lack of charity toward ones neighbors.

Unfortunately, I’ve allowed myself to be drawn into this and have responded in kind.

I apologize for that.

I see unreasoned responses, regurgitation of canned answers (which is what CA really stands for, it would seem), and every idiot with a keyboard clamoring for his or her chance to ignore everything and cough up the same old ****.

People here with a brain and a clue are few and far between, and people with a clue, a brain and the ability to process information reliably as well as articulate a response are almost nonexistent.

As for me, I’m gonna get going.

I have a strong affection for the Roman Catholic Church at it’s best and often consider reverting, but, when I do consider this, all I have to do is wander in here and spend some time among the legions of faithful borg and I quickly return to a place where I am thanking God for liberating me from her.

In this regard, you are performing a valuable service at least to me.

I’ve had my fill for a while, the likelihood of me reverting now is nil again for a while. If I feel the urge to do so again, I may be back.

But, before I go, let me encourage you to break out of your ghetto. You’re imprisoned in a neighborhood you’ve built for yourself. Very few Protestants actually hate you, and you’re doing serious damage to your witness when you behave the way you do and when you high five and laugh at uncharitable jokes made at the expense of others…

It’s not good, it’s not healthy and it’s unchristian.

Sayonara.

As Catholics we are to witness to the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes…to Christ. I agree with you completely and I have thought the same as you for some time. The site reflects the relativism of our culture…that is that there is no truth, only one’s opinion. I encourage you to find a holy priest who will take the time to answer your questions. It is through our actions that we witness to truth, i.e. Christ.

 

[Steadfast]

I got angry.

I apologize for the insulting tone in the original post here. I am going to take a sabbatical from this board (and maybe from all boards) and when I return, maybe I can be more prudent in what I respond to and how I go about it.

Thanks for all your kind words.

Mike

 

[JoeyWarren]

Welcome back.

Don’t get angry, persevere.

But if you are here to sheep steal, you are wasting your valuable time. 98% of Catholics here a degree of grounding in the Bible.

As it has been stated in a “Canned Statement” All Roman Catholic Doctrine is either Explicitly or Implicitly found in the Holy Writ."

The Catholics here are either born as or converted.

The Catholics here will all die Catholic.

Good day.

 

[Stephen_C]

I got angry.

I apologize for the insulting tone in the original post here. I am going to take a sabbatical from this board (and maybe from all boards) and when I return, maybe I can be more prudent in what I respond to and how I go about it.

Thanks for all your kind words.

Mike

Glad to hear. No need to apologize, just venting. Which a lot of folks do here from time to time.

PS. From Stead’s post, I do not think he is hear to “steal” sheep. Just to defend and explain his beliefs.

 

[Mickey]

“It takes a long time for modern man to close the wings of his intellect and to open the door of his heart.”
Catherine Dougherty

 

[Orionthehunter]

I don’t doubt that it exists or has existed in the past. My grandfather was ostracized by his protestant family when he married my grandmother, who was Catholic. But that was also a long time ago. Such bias is nowhere as acceptable today as it was in the past. I think many of the Catholics on this site have a chip on their shoulder, believing that we live in the same day and age as when people would hang signs on storefronts saying “No Dogs or Irish Allowed.” We don’t live in those times. People are still imperfect, but for the most part Protestants and Catholics live together in the same neighborhoods, go to the same schools, play on the same soccer teams and get along just fine.

At the risk of hijacking this thread (is self admission permission? ), I want to second this. When I was growing up in a predominantly Protestant small town (2,000 people), the parents of my Protestant friends were many times horrible to me when I was a pre-teen. I’m still amazed that anybody would be that rude to a child. But the scars continue to exist which I know leads me to sometime have to be careful that I don’t over-react to what is not intended to be a slur or item of discrimination.

My mind tells me that discrimination is less but sometimes my heart betrays me. It is so much less than it was 30-40 years ago. When my daughter’s were growing up, they only told me of one situation where a parent disparaged our faith to my 7-8 year old daughter. And in talking to them, they have no scars related to anti-Catholic bias. I wish I could remember only 10 situations like my daughter’s experienced but unfortunately I’ll bet if I put my mind to it I can recall dozens. It is so much better now and we should be grateful that we spend more time celebrating what unites us as Christians vs. focusing on what divides us. Christ didn’t come to divide but to unify.

But to the subject of the thread, Steadfast, your apology is accepted. If anything I said contributed to your reaction, my apology. You are a positive contributor to CAF as your heart belies a pursuit of the Truth only found in Christ. Take your time-out and then come back when you are ready. God Bless you.

 

[maryj]

“It takes a long time for modern man to close the wings of his intellect and to open the door of his heart.”
Catherine Dougherty

In my humble opinion, if you are protestant and here to learn about the Catholic church, go to the home page of Catholic answers (thus the name) stay off the boards, read, reflect, open your heart. There is so much great information there, make your decisions from studying , not arguing, it is much easier and more complete. God bless you on your journey.

 

[Saint_Michael]

Can you seriously defend judging all Protestants on the basis of your own experience? Don’t you understand that many Protestants dismiss Catholicism for similar reasons? This leads to an endless cycle of recrimination. We hate you because you hate us because we hate you because you hate us. . . .

Edwin

Of course, it’s human nature, people tend to judge based on experience. I don’t think all Protestants are raving anti’s, but I do think the vast majority have this smug air of superiority about them. Meaning that they pity us poor papists, I don’t know if patronizing is a good word. The USA has historically been Protestant, and it still is, Catholics have been despised here from the get go. It’s different today but the undercurrent is still apparent. That’s why it’s still perfectly acceptable for any comedian to say anything he likes about the Catholic Church on late night T.V. The Catholic Church is a great target because you offend no one but Catholics. Most Catholics see it, but most don’t care enough to say anything, most will even join in, making fun of the Popes hat, or celibate priests, nothing is off limits, and nothing is sacred.

 

[JoeyWarren]

You also have to ask yourself this:

Why is it, when the movies want to depict a christian religion, they 80% of the time, they choose the Catholic Church, 15% they choose some other religion that has it’s pastor dressed in black with the white collar?

The remaining 5% is…

 

[Contarini]

You also have to ask yourself this:

Why is it, when the movies want to depict a christian religion, they 80% of the time, they choose the Catholic Church, 15% they choose some other religion that has it’s pastor dressed in black with the white collar?

The remaining 5% is…

The reason is exactly the opposite of the one you suggest. If you live in the South, it’s easy to forget this, but Catholics are the single biggest religious group in this country (counting the various Protestant denominations separately). Furthermore, the main outlines of Catholicism are easily distinguishable, and Catholicism has a distinctive visual look. For Hollywood folks who don’t know (or care) much about any religion (except maybe Scientology!), this makes Catholicism the best bet if you want to portray a generic religious group.

Furthermore, a lot of the folks involved in the entertainment industry come from the Northeast or the West Coast. I have been living in New Jersey for the past three years (until I moved to Indiana a couple months ago), and it’s an overwhelmingly Catholic place (insofar as anywhere in America is overwhelmingly anything). There are probably at least as many Catholics as all the Protestant denominations put together. Catholics in NJ are like Baptists in Tennessee–they’re the default. If you live in a place where there are almost no Catholics, it’s easy to assume that Hollywod is picking on you. But chances are that’s simply the first thing that comes to their mind when they think “Christian” or for that matter “religious.”

Here’s a good example–the show “Gilmore Girls” is IMHO one of the best shows on TV, except that they haven’t got a clue how to portray religion. Most of the characters are irreligious, but the heroine’s best friend is Seventh-Day Adventist, with an extremely strict mother. Now obviously the writers of the show know nothing about SDA’s. I didn’t know it was possible to be as ignorant about SDA’s as these folks are. I could pardon the occasional reference to eternal damnation (which SDA’s don’t believe in). But what’s with all the crucifixes and references to convents and the Sacred Heart? It’s unbelievable. Obviously the writers are completely secular or perhaps lapsed Catholics, and they have no clue about any form of Christianity except Catholicism. The only way they know to describe strict Christianity is to have someone waving crucifixes around and raving about Purgatory. They aren’t trying to attack Catholicism–the character is supposed to be SDA! It’s simply that they don’t know how to describe anything else.

Also, many Protestant churches do dress their clergy in clericals–again, this isn’t a common practice in the South, but my father-in-law for instance dressed this way while a pastor in northwestern Indiana, because when he went hospital visiting the staff wouldn’t believe he was a minister if he didn’t have “proper” clerical attire (this town was near South Bend and has a large Catholic population).

Catholicism is far more dominant in America than people in certain regions have any way of realizing. It has a high profile, and there are simply certain costs that come with that.

Edwin

 

[Stephen_C]

This is interesting. It is a breakdown of how the various faiths are spread across the US.

time.com/time/covers/20061030/denomination_nation/

 

[rr1213]

This is interesting. It is a breakdown of how the various faiths are spread across the US.

time.com/time/covers/20061030/denomination_nation/

This is really neat! A great map. It’s amazing how much of the Old Confederacy is not Catholic, outside of Texas, Louisiana and Florida. As for Louisiana, I suppose that it has historically been Catholic as a former French colony and with the heavy Cajun influence. Texas, of course, has a strong Latino flavor. Florida is more Catholic further south and this probably stems from the Cuban immigrant influence as well as the transient nature of the area (all the retirees moving to Florida from the North East). The mainline protestants are concentrated in the midwest and evangelical protestants in the South. I would have expected to see more mainline protestants in the north east though.

 

[Stephen_C]

This is really neat! A great map. It’s amazing how much of the Old Confederacy is not Catholic, outside of Texas, Louisiana and Florida. As for Louisiana, I suppose that it has historically been Catholic as a former French colony and with the heavy Cajun influence. Texas, of course, has a strong Latino flavor. Florida is more Catholic further south and this probably stems from the Cuban immigrant influence as well as the transient nature of the area (all the retirees moving to Florida from the North East). The mainline protestants are concentrated in the midwest and evangelical protestants in the South. I would have expected to see more mainline protestants in the north east though.

Not trying to hijack here but…As to Catholic demographics… Yes to what you said above. As the the mideast and northeast
It shows where the high concentration of Irish and Italian’s immigrated to. (industrialized north)

 

[MariaG]

This is interesting. It is a breakdown of how the various faiths are spread across the US.

time.com/time/covers/20061030/denomination_nation/

Interesting. Also explains why most of my interaction is with the Evangelical crowd instead of Mainlne Protestant. (or Catholic for that matter)

Thanks.

 

[MariaG]

I got angry.

I apologize for the insulting tone in the original post here. I am going to take a sabbatical from this board (and maybe from all boards) and when I return, maybe I can be more prudent in what I respond to and how I go about it.

Thanks for all your kind words.

Mike

I know it is time for me to take a break when things like that come out of me. *Ususally, *I have gotten to the point that I don’t post it, I just spend a lot of time writing things and then not posting because it has a completely wrong “tone”. I “vent” to myself. Sometimes just writing it and erasing it helps me.

Breaks are good. Spend the extra time reading scripture, or maybe even visiting a Catholic Church I recommend finding a time of adoration and just go and sit/kneel in His presence

God Bless,
Maria

 

[rr1213]

…I recommend finding a time of adoration and just go and sit/kneel in His presence

God Bless,
Maria

He’s Lutheran so I doubt that he would want to participate in adoration of the host.

 

[Mickey]

I “vent” to myself. Sometimes just writing it and erasing it helps me.

I thought I was the only one who did that!

Though I must admit, I have posted many things that should have been erased.

 

[MariaG]

He’s Lutheran so I doubt that he would want to participate in adoration of the host.

Yeah, I know, that’s why I winked and smiled.

But I was half serious and I do think that the atmosphere alone would be a balm to his soul even if he wasn’t participating in the adoration but just sat there during it.

God Bless,
Maria