This is sad on so many levels

[D3USVult]

There was a recent thread posted on the forum discussing porn addiction within marriage. More specifically the OP was a married woman who was asking whether she could/should continue to be intimate with her husband after discovering that he had an addiction to porn. First off I want to say that my heart and my prayers go out to both the OP and her husband. There were a number of very good responses to her question, but there was one response which, as a man, I found very disheartening. Rather than hijack the thread I thought I’d respond by starting a new one.

The response in question was as follows:

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

This attitude among women is very prevalent in our society, so I can’t say that I was all that surprised. Nonetheless, the fact that someone expressed such an opinion on a Catholic website saddens me greatly. Is porn addiction a problem for a lot of men, including Catholic men? Yes! Is porn ever permissible under Catholic teaching? Absolutely not! Now that my opinion on the moral quality of pornography has been submitted for the record I have a few questions of my own: How does denying a man healthy sex with his wife help lessen the temptation to view pornographic material? Won’t such measures only serve to make him feel depressed and isolated, and thus *increase *the allure of pornography?

It’s no secret that men have much higher testosterone levels than women. This disparity manifests itself in several ways one of which is a much stronger sex drive amongst men. We didn’t ask for it, it’s just the way *God *made us. Sadly Christianity and by extension the Church, has come to regard male sexuality as some kind of disease that needs to be cured. Thus, if a man desires intercourse with a woman then there’s something wrong with him. And if he succumbs to one of the many temptations that are readily available everywhere in our society, then we should punish and ostracize him as if he were already damned.

It is true that you never want to be an enabler, but I fail to see how intimacy between a man with a porn addiction and his wife is enabling the addiction. Comparing love-making between a married couple to porn consumption is like comparing wild raspberries to old raisins. There is no comparison. Will actual sex fix the problem? Not by itself. He will have to make some kind of resolution to beat the addiction and take steps towards achieving that goal. However, I would think that passionate, steamy sex with the woman to whom he has given his heart would be an effective remedy for any man who truly wanted to quite porn.

The post above saddens me because it not only demonstrates a very callous attitude towards a very real struggle, but it will serve to do nothing except compound the problem. The battle against impurity is a battle that we men will spend most of our lives fighting. The really sad part is that we are expected to carry our crosses in solitude and silence. Moreover, there is no reward if we overcome our demons, only condemnation if we fail.

Pax vobiscum

 

[Sugabee43]

Peace with you, as well.

Your post assumes that women can compartmentalize sex, emotion, and love. Speaking on first-hand experience, my husband’s continued porn addiction only makes me feel cheated on, and inadequate. The fact that he either cannot or will not stop his behavior is why I am unable to have sex with him. I spent YEARS being open and available to him sexually, praying for him; for us; to be given the gift of forgetfulness (of his adultery - and yes, it’s adultery); to help me forgive him; for desire; etc… But when the person you gave your heart to and your life to continues to break his vows, your desire wanes. Has he tried sobriety? Yes, but it’s never lasted more than a few months, and regaining trust requires more than a few months.

If someone maintains sobriety to the point where the spouse can feel trust (and that’s probably different for each person/situation), then I can see where your opinion is valid. But to say that anyone going through this nightmare is somehow “wrong” because they don’t have sex with their addicted spouse is not understanding the situation, problem, addiction, or behavior.

It’s HIS choice to succumb to the temptation. Not mine. HIS choice to cheat on me. Not mine.

 

[Xantippe]

There was a recent thread posted on the forum discussing porn addiction within marriage. More specifically the OP was a married woman who was asking whether she could/should continue to be intimate with her husband after discovering that he had an addiction to porn. First off I want to say that my heart and my prayers go out to both the OP and her husband. There were a number of very good responses to her question, but there was one response which, as a man, I found very disheartening. Rather than hijack the thread I thought I’d respond by starting a new one.

The response in question was as follows:

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

This attitude among women is very prevalent in our society, so I can’t say that I was all that surprised. Nonetheless, the fact that someone expressed such an opinion on a Catholic website saddens me greatly. Is porn addiction a problem for a lot of men, including Catholic men? Yes! Is porn ever permissible under Catholic teaching? Absolutely not! Now that my opinion on the moral quality of pornography has been submitted for the record I have a few questions of my own: How does denying a man healthy sex with his wife help lessen the temptation to view pornographic material? Won’t such measures only serve to make him feel depressed and isolated, and thus *increase *the allure of pornography?

It’s no secret that men have much higher testosterone levels than women. This disparity manifests itself in several ways one of which is a much stronger sex drive amongst men. We didn’t ask for it, it’s just the way *God *made us. Sadly Christianity and by extension the Church, has come to regard male sexuality as some kind of disease that needs to be cured. Thus, if a man desires intercourse with a woman then there’s something wrong with him. And if he succumbs to one of the many temptations that are readily available everywhere in our society, then we should punish and ostracize him as if he were already damned.

It is true that you never want to be an enabler, but I fail to see how intimacy between a man with a porn addiction and his wife is enabling the addiction. Comparing love-making between a married couple to porn consumption is like comparing wild raspberries to old raisins. There is no comparison. Will actual sex fix the problem? Not by itself. He will have to make some kind of resolution to beat the addiction and take steps towards achieving that goal. However, I would think that passionate, steamy sex with the woman to whom he has given his heart would be an effective remedy for any man who truly wanted to quite porn.

The post above saddens me because it not only demonstrates a very callous attitude towards a very real struggle, but it will serve to do nothing except compound the problem. The battle against impurity is a battle that we men will spend most of our lives fighting. The really sad part is that we are expected to carry our crosses in solitude and silence. Moreover, there is no reward if we overcome our demons, only condemnation if we fail.

Pax vobiscum

Why the separate thread? Why not share your thoughts there, so the ladies with the porn-addicted husbands can see your post more easily?

But I’ll bite.

Here are some thoughts:

1. If a healthy marital sex life didn’t keep a husband from falling into porn addiction to begin with, a healthy marital sex life isn’t going to fix him.
2. While the average man may have a stronger sex drive than the average woman, there is a substantial minority of women with higher sex drives than their husbands. Also, there are particular times of life when the wife’s drive may be very high (some women in pregnancy and perimenopause) whereas there are other times when the husband’s drive may be particularly low (for instance, because of the effects of aging).

I was just looking here:

healthline.com/health/low-testosterone/testosterone-levels-by-age#Adolescence3

Apparently, men have a 1% drop in testosterone levels every year after 30.

A lot of couples are going to experience a cross-over point in middle age where the husband’s libido is tanking while the wife’s libido is at an all-time high.

While there isn’t a lot of compassion for male onanists, I don’t see anybody pulling out hankies for women with husbands that aren’t meeting their sexual needs.

1. Female sexual desire is probably (when it’s “on”) much more powerful and harder to resist than male sexual desire.
2. “However, I would think that passionate, steamy sex with the woman to whom he has given his heart would be an effective remedy for any man who truly wanted to quite porn.”

You’re not married, are you?

1. I think one of the things that people are worried about is the tendency for porn to leak into and pollute the marital sexual relationship.

 

[Xantippe]

Peace with you, as well.

Your post assumes that women can compartmentalize sex, emotion, and love. Speaking on first-hand experience, my husband’s continued porn addiction only makes me feel cheated on, and inadequate. The fact that he either cannot or will not stop his behavior is why I am unable to have sex with him. I spent YEARS being open and available to him sexually, praying for him; for us; to be given the gift of forgetfulness (of his adultery - and yes, it’s adultery); to help me forgive him; for desire; etc… But when the person you gave your heart to and your life to continues to break his vows, your desire wanes. Has he tried sobriety? Yes, but it’s never lasted more than a few months, and regaining trust requires more than a few months.

If someone maintains sobriety to the point where the spouse can feel trust (and that’s probably different for each person/situation), then I can see where your opinion is valid. But to say that anyone going through this nightmare is somehow “wrong” because they don’t have sex with their addicted spouse is not understanding the situation, problem, addiction, or behavior.

It’s HIS choice to succumb to the temptation. Not mine. HIS choice to cheat on me. Not mine.

Right.

I’ve also heard of extreme cases where a porn-addicted husband simply is no longer interested in “real” sex with his wife. Apparently, while it’s a worst case scenario, it isn’t at all uncommon.

 

[TK421]

The Family subsection on CAF is going to offer a highly skewed perspective. Many people come here because they have dysfunctional marriages, or extremely stable but extremely unromantic ones.

Women don’t have weaker sex drives than men. Male sex drives peaks in youth and then gradually declines. Female sex drive is a curve that peaks at 30-40, and then goes back to declining.

The reason women appear to have weaker sex drives is because of less expression of the desire, and because they are stimulated differently from men. Although there are women that become addicted to pornography, they’re not neurologically geared towards visual (name removed by moderator)ut in the way the male brain is that makes them vulnerable to pornographic content. Women are aroused through atmosphere, words, a sense of safety in vulnerability, etc., which often demands a more personal encounter… as Sugabee put: she has trouble compartmentalizing sex, which is common for women. Men more easily can.

 

[Sugabee43]

Xaniappe, that’s pretty much the case for me. Not so much that the porn is what satisfies h but that he thinks it’s not “worth the work” of tending to the relationship. The funny/sad part is that he thinks if he divorces me and gets an annulment, he’ll find another woman who’s more “compatible”.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

There was a recent thread posted on the forum discussing porn addiction within marriage. More specifically the OP was a married woman who was asking whether she could/should continue to be intimate with her husband after discovering that he had an addiction to porn. First off I want to say that my heart and my prayers go out to both the OP and her husband. There were a number of very good responses to her question, but there was one response which, as a man, I found very disheartening. Rather than hijack the thread I thought I’d respond by starting a new one.

The response in question was as follows:

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

This attitude among women is very prevalent in our society, so I can’t say that I was all that surprised. Nonetheless, the fact that someone expressed such an opinion on a Catholic website saddens me greatly. Is porn addiction a problem for a lot of men, including Catholic men? Yes! Is porn ever permissible under Catholic teaching? Absolutely not! Now that my opinion on the moral quality of pornography has been submitted for the record I have a few questions of my own: How does denying a man healthy sex with his wife help lessen the temptation to view pornographic material? Won’t such measures only serve to make him feel depressed and isolated, and thus *increase *the allure of pornography?

It’s no secret that men have much higher testosterone levels than women. This disparity manifests itself in several ways one of which is a much stronger sex drive amongst men. We didn’t ask for it, it’s just the way *God *made us. Sadly Christianity and by extension the Church, has come to regard male sexuality as some kind of disease that needs to be cured. Thus, if a man desires intercourse with a woman then there’s something wrong with him. And if he succumbs to one of the many temptations that are readily available everywhere in our society, then we should punish and ostracize him as if he were already damned.

It is true that you never want to be an enabler, but I fail to see how intimacy between a man with a porn addiction and his wife is enabling the addiction. Comparing love-making between a married couple to porn consumption is like comparing wild raspberries to old raisins. There is no comparison. Will actual sex fix the problem? Not by itself. He will have to make some kind of resolution to beat the addiction and take steps towards achieving that goal. However, I would think that passionate, steamy sex with the woman to whom he has given his heart would be an effective remedy for any man who truly wanted to quite porn.

The post above saddens me because it not only demonstrates a very callous attitude towards a very real struggle, but it will serve to do nothing except compound the problem. The battle against impurity is a battle that we men will spend most of our lives fighting. The really sad part is that we are expected to carry our crosses in solitude and silence. Moreover, there is no reward if we overcome our demons, only condemnation if we fail.

Pax vobiscum

Wait, the woman’s response saddens you?!

you are kidding right?

What was that Jesus said about adultery and the heart?

 

[LongingSoul]

There was a recent thread posted on the forum discussing porn addiction within marriage. More specifically the OP was a married woman who was asking whether she could/should continue to be intimate with her husband after discovering that he had an addiction to porn. First off I want to say that my heart and my prayers go out to both the OP and her husband. There were a number of very good responses to her question, but there was one response which, as a man, I found very disheartening. Rather than hijack the thread I thought I’d respond by starting a new one.

The response in question was as follows:

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

This attitude among women is very prevalent in our society, so I can’t say that I was all that surprised. Nonetheless, the fact that someone expressed such an opinion on a Catholic website saddens me greatly. Is porn addiction a problem for a lot of men, including Catholic men? Yes! Is porn ever permissible under Catholic teaching? Absolutely not! Now that my opinion on the moral quality of pornography has been submitted for the record I have a few questions of my own: How does denying a man healthy sex with his wife help lessen the temptation to view pornographic material? Won’t such measures only serve to make him feel depressed and isolated, and thus *increase *the allure of pornography?

It’s no secret that men have much higher testosterone levels than women. This disparity manifests itself in several ways one of which is a much stronger sex drive amongst men. We didn’t ask for it, it’s just the way *God *made us. Sadly Christianity and by extension the Church, has come to regard male sexuality as some kind of disease that needs to be cured. Thus, if a man desires intercourse with a woman then there’s something wrong with him. And if he succumbs to one of the many temptations that are readily available everywhere in our society, then we should punish and ostracize him as if he were already damned.

It is true that you never want to be an enabler, but I fail to see how intimacy between a man with a porn addiction and his wife is enabling the addiction. Comparing love-making between a married couple to porn consumption is like comparing wild raspberries to old raisins. There is no comparison. Will actual sex fix the problem? Not by itself. He will have to make some kind of resolution to beat the addiction and take steps towards achieving that goal. However, I would think that passionate, steamy sex with the woman to whom he has given his heart would be an effective remedy for any man who truly wanted to quite porn.

The post above saddens me because it not only demonstrates a very callous attitude towards a very real struggle, but it will serve to do nothing except compound the problem. The battle against impurity is a battle that we men will spend most of our lives fighting. The really sad part is that we are expected to carry our crosses in solitude and silence. Moreover, there is no reward if we overcome our demons, only condemnation if we fail.

Pax vobiscum

covenanteyes.com/2010/07/06/the-effects-of-pornography-on-wives-and-marriages/

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Wait, the woman’s response saddens you?!

you are kidding right?

What was that Jesus said about adultery and the heart?

I wasn’t going to comment in this topic since I (luckily) don’t have experience with this. But I just wanted to commend you, Hoosier Daddy, for questioning the OP’s narrative instead of just backing up “your brothers”.

Many of the men posting in the other topic have framed this as a gender issue, much as the OP of this topic here. That it’s all about bitter, unmerciful, vengeful women, who just don’t understand what life is like for men with their God-given levels of testosterone.

Well, I assume Jesus had a God-given level of testosterone, too. So it’s not like He “just didn’t get it” when he made those statements.

 

[bmaj]

Peace with you, as well.

Your post assumes that women can compartmentalize sex, emotion, and love. Speaking on first-hand experience, my husband’s continued porn addiction only makes me feel cheated on, and inadequate. The fact that he either cannot or will not stop his behavior is why I am unable to have sex with him. I spent YEARS being open and available to him sexually, praying for him; for us; to be given the gift of forgetfulness (of his adultery - and yes, it’s adultery); to help me forgive him; for desire; etc… But when the person you gave your heart to and your life to continues to break his vows, your desire wanes. Has he tried sobriety? Yes, but it’s never lasted more than a few months, and regaining trust requires more than a few months.

If someone maintains sobriety to the point where the spouse can feel trust (and that’s probably different for each person/situation), then I can see where your opinion is valid. But to say that anyone going through this nightmare is somehow “wrong” because they don’t have sex with their addicted spouse is not understanding the situation, problem, addiction, or behavior.

It’s HIS choice to succumb to the temptation. Not mine. HIS choice to cheat on me. Not mine.

Truer words were never spoken. Porn use by husbands hurts wives so much more than most men could even imagine. And many husbands, if not most, don’t ever care to stop viewing the porn. They just don’t want to get caught and will continue to go to great lengths to hide their habit. Even when confronted, many won’t admit it or even try to stop. The excuses given are numerous, unfortunately, and many end up turning the situation around and blaming the wife (at least my husband did). An important book that can help wives with this issue and many other difficult situations in marriage is, “Boundaries in Marriage,” by Drs. Cloud and Townsend. I highly recommend that and the support group here at CAF (“Women Suffering Because of Unchastity”). May Our Lord bless any and all wives going through this with their husbands. It can be a virtual hell on earth to live with in marriage.

 

[Sugabee43]

What seems to be missing is the whole theology of the issue. It’s like the couple, operating under the umbrella of the Trinity, is where the relationship works at its most holy and finest. If the husband, by the actions of his addiction, steps OUT from under the umbrella, does the wife stay under God’s protection; or step out herself to be with her husband? Seems pretty clear to me. She doesn’t stop praying or being charitable, but she doesn’t enable or contribute as long as he isn’t repentant or sober.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

To the OP: I didn’t read the thread you are discussing in this one. However, I don’t understand why you are outing one person’s message in a new thread. Did you respond to this posting in the other thread? What is the point of your thread? I think I’m missing something here, maybe because I didn’t read the other thread or something else.

 

[St_Francis]

I think that people are looking at this situation from their own experiences, or perhaps through what they have heard or seen people suffer.

The response in each individual case will be different, because each situation is different. The OP in this thread may have knowledge of a situation in which a husband was in recovery but whose wife behaved in a vindictive way (by which I mean she was using the situation to her own advantage rather than being forgiving). So he sees the responses in a different way than people who have experience with those who continue in their addictive behavior.

Just because one person in a marriage does something wrong does not mean that the other can do no wrong.

So, again, each situation should be evaluated individually on its own merits.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

However, I would think that passionate, steamy sex with the woman to whom he has given his heart would be an effective remedy for any man who truly wanted to quite porn.

The post above saddens me because it not only demonstrates a very callous attitude towards a very real struggle, but it will serve to do nothing except compound the problem. The battle against impurity is a battle that we men will spend most of our lives fighting. The really sad part is that we are expected to carry our crosses in solitude and silence. Moreover, there is no reward if we overcome our demons, only condemnation if we fail.

Pax vobiscum

Really:shrug:? Steamy sex is the solution to inordinate and perverse sexual desire? How about the man actually taking responsibility for his thoughts and actions instead of shifting responsibility to his wife for his own shortcomings. His shortcomings are not her shortcomings as though she is merely an extension of himself with no identity of her own separate from the husband.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

This attitude **among women **is very prevalent in our society, so I can’t say that I was all that surprised. Nonetheless, the fact that someone expressed such an opinion on a Catholic website saddens me greatly.

Among women ??? It is the #1 reason men use to justify their porn addiction ie I can’ get what I want at home. Catholics live in the world and it is the excuse women hear all the time. Catholic women know better than to fall into it

 

[D3USVult]

Thank you for your reply. I am sorry that your husband was unable to overcome his problems and I am sorry for the heartache it must have caused you. It is not my desire to offend anyone. On that note, here is my response.

Your post assumes that women can compartmentalize sex, emotion, and love.

I am not assuming anything. I don’t expect a woman to just overlook the fact that her husband has a porn problem. I’m merely saying that denying an addict alternatives doesn’t sound like the best way to help him overcome an addiction.

Speaking on first-hand experience, my husband’s continued porn addiction only makes me feel cheated on, and inadequate. The fact that he either cannot or will not stop his behavior is why I am unable to have sex with him. I spent YEARS being open and available to him sexually, praying for him; for us; to be given the gift of forgetfulness (of his adultery - and yes, it’s adultery); to help me forgive him; for desire; etc… But when the person you gave your heart to and your life to continues to break his vows, your desire wanes. Has he tried sobriety? Yes, but it’s never lasted more than a few months, and regaining trust requires more than a few months.

Let me reiterate that I am sorry for you, but I think you are misunderstanding me. It seems to me like your husband didn’t really want to quit. At least you can honestly say that you tried to help him. The reason I started this thread is not to try and absolve men of their marital responsibilities or to make light of anyone’s experiences with a porn-addicted spouse.

If someone maintains sobriety to the point where the spouse can feel trust (and that’s probably different for each person/situation), then I can see where your opinion is valid. But to say that anyone going through this nightmare is somehow “wrong” because they don’t have sex with their addicted spouse is not understanding the situation, problem, addiction, or behavior.

It’s HIS choice to succumb to the temptation. Not mine. HIS choice to cheat on me. Not mine.

Once again, you are misunderstanding me. I am not making a pronouncement about whether any particular person is “wrong” or “right” by withholding sex from an addicted spouse. As I said above, why should our first response be to put the addict in a situation that will make his fix seem that much more attractive? You can’t save a person all by yourself it’s true, but must we be so quick to right off every guy who commits a sexual sin?

 

[D3USVult]

Really:shrug:? Steamy sex is the solution to inordinate and perverse sexual desire? How about the man actually taking responsibility for his thoughts and actions instead of shifting responsibility to his wife for his own shortcomings. His shortcomings are not her shortcomings as though she is merely an extension of himself with no identity of her own separate from the husband.

You are putting words in my mouth. If you bothered to read my original post you would know that I am not holding the wife responsible for the sins of her husband. The post which I pulled from the original thread demonstrates an attitude which I believe can only exacerbate the problem of porn addiction in this country and throughout the world. Self-righteous condemnation leads to isolation. Isolation leads to despair. Despair does *not *lead to the successful defeat of an addiction.

 

[Sugabee43]

Thank you for your reply. I am sorry that your husband was unable to overcome his problems and I am sorry for the heartache it must have caused you. It is not my desire to offend anyone. On that note, here is my response.

I am not assuming anything. I don’t expect a woman to just overlook the fact that her husband has a porn problem. I’m merely saying that denying an addict alternatives doesn’t sound like the best way to help him overcome an addiction.

Let me reiterate that I am sorry for you, but I think you are misunderstanding me. It seems to me like your husband didn’t really want to quit. At least you can honestly say that you tried to help him. The reason I started this thread is not to try and absolve men of their marital responsibilities or to make light of anyone’s experiences with a porn-addicted spouse.

Once again, you are misunderstanding me. I am not making a pronouncement about whether any particular person is “wrong” or “right” by withholding sex from an addicted spouse. As I said above, why should our first response be to put the addict in a situation that will make his fix seem that much more attractive? You can’t save a person all by yourself it’s true, but must we be so quick to right off every guy who commits a sexual sin?

To reiterate, my marriage issues are ongoing; nothing has changed in 22 years.
“Alternatives”? Is that a euphemism for sex? If so, again you’re assuming that I can turn my desire off and on like a man. Women, generally speaking, don’t operate this way.
As already noted my first response (can’t speak for anyone else) was not withholding sex. I can pray for him. But HE’S the one who is responsible for his behavior- not anything I do or don’t do. So if he were addicted to alcohol, I ought to ply him with wine so he won’t go out to bars?

 

[Allegra]

This attitude among women is very prevalent in our society, so I can’t say that I was all that surprised. Nonetheless, the fact that someone expressed such an opinion on a Catholic website saddens me greatly. Is porn addiction a problem for a lot of men, including Catholic men? Yes! Is porn ever permissible under Catholic teaching? Absolutely not! Now that my opinion on the moral quality of pornography has been submitted for the record I have a few questions of my own: How does denying a man healthy sex with his wife help lessen the temptation to view pornographic material? Won’t such measures only serve to make him feel depressed and isolated, and thus *increase *the allure of pornography?

Since it is me you are quoting, I’m answer you, though I also have no idea why you didn’t just post in the original thread, since your response wouldn’t be changing the subject or “hijacking the thread” at all.

Nowhere in your self-righteous and somewhat passive aggressive post did you acknowledge the possibility that female marital partners might actually have feelings of their own, and that the repeated violation of their marital bond by an unfaithful husband might actually cause them tremendous emotional pain and psychological harm.

Unfaithful partners like to pretend that their extra-marital sexual experiences are in some way completely separate from their marital bond. They LOVE to tell the victimized spouse, “It wasn’t about YOU!” as if the fact that one’s spouse is masturbating to another person has no effect on them whatsoever.

The fact of the matter is, it does. Porn is pervasive and remains in the mind well after the person is done with it. The innocent spouse can’t ever be sure that the unfaithful spouse isn’t fantasizing about other people he or she has made into sexual objects, or that he or she doesn’t prefer the soulless objects to their spouse. Many porn addicts attempt to bring the sick and demeaning sexual acts into the bedroom with their spouse, often asking for their fantasies to be realized by the spouse. This is humiliating and demeaning to the spouse, but he or she feels pressure to go along with it because they are competing with a series of manufactured sex slaves that can never say “no”. Aside from that, there is the constant, and far more devastating stream of lies, deception, bullying, blaming, and manipulations associated with addiction, which wear on the soul of the victimized spouse, destroying trust and making sex completely one-sided and painful. .

After all that, you think the appropriate question is, “How does withholding sex help the poor, testosterone-inflicted husband stop using porn?”

The real question should be, “How does expecting the wife who has already been victimized greatly to jump in bed with the very man who has hurt her help HER to heal?” Does a wife not have a right to self-preservation, or are a man’s supposedly insatiable sexual deviancies more important than her mental and emotional health?

Despite the fact that your question is ridiculous and completely self-centered, (not surprising since addictions tend to be ridiculous and completely self-centered things) I do have an answer for you.

When a person is dealing with an addict, it is important to set up strong boundaries. Addicts’ brains are wired around getting another hit, and they are always looking for a loophole to the “rules”. An addict needs to understand that their actions absolutely will have consequences, and needs to be able to predict exactly what those consequences will be. It is actually helpful to an addict who is legitimately trying to recover to know that if they slip up, there are real and very specific consequences to their actions.

Secondly, an addict generally struggles with the concept that their addictions effect their loved ones and their relationships. This reality is something that an addict’s brain tends to want to ignore, in order to preserve the addiction, however, if the addict is held to personal boundaries it is much harder for them to ignore it. Respect for boundaries is a natural way to rebuild trust, far more so than reluctant, fearful, and painful sex. True reconciliation with loved ones is a strong motivator for many addicts.

So you see, withholding marital sex from a porn addict can, in fact, help them to stop using, in real ways. In addition, since you claim you found my post so un-Catholic, I would remind you that the Church teaches that the conjugal act is created by God for the mutual bonding of the couple. The idea that a daughter of God ought to be expected to offer her body as a sex object to a husband who has repeatedly broken that bond, as a replacement for a more illicit object is pretty foreign to that formula.

 

[Xantippe]

Once again, you are misunderstanding me. I am not making a pronouncement about whether any particular person is “wrong” or “right” by withholding sex from an addicted spouse. As I said above, why should our first response be to put the addict in a situation that will make his fix seem that much more attractive? You can’t save a person all by yourself it’s true, but must we be so quick to right off every guy who commits a sexual sin?

Do you think that a husband whose wife is having an adulterous affair (or recently ended an adulterous affair–with some signs of wobbling) should immediately jump back into being physically intimate with his very recently adulterous wife?

Nobody is being written off, but it’s reasonable to re-establish trust before being physically intimate with an erring spouse.