This is sad on so many levels

[Allegra]

Many young men look to marriage as a way to relieve some of that built up tension only to discover that marriage often means an exponential increase in responsibility, an exponential decrease in freedom, and once a month intercourse with a woman that isn’t even fully engaged in the act. How do I know this? Well, let’s just say that I wish I had a nickel for every time an older man shared some rather depressing details of his married life with me right before advising me never to get married. I believe it was Allegra who said that it’s not a woman’s job to be “good enough” in bed. If that’s an acceptable attitude for a wife to have then why should I bother getting married? If I’m going to end up abstaining most of the time anyway, it’s much more cost effective to do it as a single man.

If that’s how you really feel about family life, then it’s probably for the best that you remain single for the time being. Also, you should really try to make new friends because it’s pretty disgusting for a married man to complain about his sex life to an unmarried, younger man. A good husband doesn’t do that.

You’ve been advised in two threads as to the reasons your thinking is flawed, by many different posters, most of which are good, faithful, married Catholics. I second that reading TotB and “Holy Sex!” are both good reads if you want to learn about what the marital embrace is meant to be. In the future, I would appreciate it if you would address me directly when you want to tell me how many levels of sad you feel I am, rather than start a passive aggressive secondary thread.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Seems to me that many of the posts based on the assumption that a woman who refuses sex to an adulterous husband, is doing so out of vindictive urges to punish him – actually betray an assumption that sex is just something women engage into please men.

That most women just aren’t into sex anyway, but merely see it as a tool to manipulate their husbands, by either rewarding him for good deeds such as taking out the trash, or punishing him for bad deeds such as viewing porn. That’s not quite what’s going on here.

But this idea that “all women are whores” and see sex as merely a commodity they can exchange for something they really want, whether that be money, security, or even love – this idea is quite wrong, though obviously it is something a porn addict might buy into.

 

[Xantippe]

Seems to me that many of the posts based on the assumption that a woman who refuses sex to an adulterous husband, is doing so out of vindictive urges to punish him – actually betray an assumption that sex is just something women engage into please men.

That most women just aren’t into sex anyway, but merely see it as a tool to manipulate their husbands, by either rewarding him for good deeds such as taking out the trash, or punishing him for bad deeds such as viewing porn. That’s not quite what’s going on here.

But this idea that “all women are whores” and see sex as merely a commodity they can exchange for something they really want, whether that be money, security, or even love – this idea is quite wrong, though obviously it is something a porn addict might buy into.

I would phrase that a little differently, but yeah.

The “punishing” view does seem to neglect the fact that marital sex is supposed to be an activity that is pleasant for the wife, too, and she is being deprived just as much as he is.

I find that view (that the wife is losing nothing by refusing or delaying) seems to surface a lot.

I also frequently run into the view on CAF that a wife’s refusing sex is like a husband refusing to go to work. It’s been a long time since my SAT days, but I guess that means that sex is to wife as work is to husband. I guess that means that wives of retired men don’t need to have sex anymore…

All of this strongly suggests to me that sex with some people’s husbands is a bit of a chore. Heck, they even think it is.

 

[pensmama87]

Seems to me that many of the posts based on the assumption that a woman who refuses sex to an adulterous husband, is doing so out of vindictive urges to punish him – actually betray an assumption that sex is just something women engage into please men.

That most women just aren’t into sex anyway, but merely see it as a tool to manipulate their husbands, by either rewarding him for good deeds such as taking out the trash, or punishing him for bad deeds such as viewing porn. That’s not quite what’s going on here.

But this idea that “all women are whores” and see sex as merely a commodity they can exchange for something they really want, whether that be money, security, or even love – this idea is quite wrong, though obviously it is something a porn addict might buy into.

Right.

There have been a few times when I’ve decided, out of love for my husband, to go ahead anyway, not because he’s guilted me or that I want something for it but just because I love him. And there have been times we’ve had to stop (pain, what have you. Stuff happens.) Every time, he was the one who asked, “Hey, are you OK?” And I’d feel bad because clearly I’d let on that I wasn’t exactly having the time of my life. But it was **him **who had no interest in continuing knowing that I was suffering. Frankly, it’s a mood killer.

I find it weird, though perhaps not inconsistent with the way addiction works, that this would not necessarily be a mood killer for the porn-addicted spouse.

 

[Xantippe]

Right.

There have been a few times when I’ve decided, out of love for my husband, to go ahead anyway, not because he’s guilted me or that I want something for it but just because I love him. And there have been times we’ve had to stop (pain, what have you. Stuff happens.) Every time, he was the one who asked, “Hey, are you OK?” And I’d feel bad because clearly I’d let on that I wasn’t exactly having the time of my life. But it was **him **who had no interest in continuing knowing that I was suffering. Frankly, it’s a mood killer.

I find it weird, though perhaps not inconsistent with the way addiction works, that this would not necessarily be a mood killer for the porn-addicted spouse.

Right.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I would phrase that a little differently, but yeah.

The “punishing” view does seem to neglect the fact that marital sex is supposed to be an activity that is pleasant for the wife, too, and she is being deprived just as much as he is.

I find that view (that the wife is losing nothing by refusing or delaying) seems to surface a lot.

I also frequently run into the view on CAF that a wife’s refusing sex is like a husband refusing to go to work. It’s been a long time since my SAT days, but I guess that means that sex is to wife as work is to husband. I guess that means that wives of retired men don’t need to have sex anymore…

All of this strongly suggests to me that sex with some people’s husbands is a bit of a chore. Heck, they even think it is.

Well, I think the “all women are whores” attitude also underlies a lot of the assumptions behind the “double standard” that finds male sexual sin to be no big deal, but that female sexual sin is a horrible evil. The assumption seems to be, that a man committing sexual sin is just surrendering to natural God-given urges, essentially committing a crime of passion. But a woman who commits sexual sin is doing so with premeditation, coldly and deliberately, likely out of some ulterior motive, and hence, is committing a greater sin.

I also find it telling that most male CAF posters expressing these thoughts, aren’t actually married.

OP, if you’re still reading this, I wonder, do you think of marriage to a sexually submissive wife who would never reject you ever, as some kind of reward for remaining chaste now? Even if you’re not a porn addict, that kind of attitude, that women are trophies, isn’t that different. Women are actually flesh and blood human beings, who do have a sex drive in most cases.

Now it is true that the sex drive of most women is more affected by their emotions. But most women who don’t want to have sex with cheating husbands, actually WOULD be in the mood if the husband was actually loving and caring and treated them with dignity and respect. Sex in that case wouldn’t be some reward grudgingly doled out by a frigid wife who could take sex or leave it. It would actually be welcomed!

 

[John_Lazarus]

With regard to the question of whether it is salvaging the marriage or just punishing the man, there is a third possible objective–namely, protecting the wife from degradation and disrespect.

I would say a woman who is protecting herself from degradation and disrespect IS ALSO working to save the marriage.

 

[John_Lazarus]

So what should be done if a man has a porn addiction when he isn’t married? Addictions aren’t easy to overcome, but surely he can find a different remedy.

Like for other addictions, there are support groups. Not just alcohol and drugs, the are people addicted to sex, gambling, eating, etc, and there are support groups that are open to all addicts.

 

[John_Lazarus]

I also frequently run into the view on CAF that a wife’s refusing sex is like a husband refusing to go to work. It’s been a long time since my SAT days, but I guess that means that sex is to wife as work is to husband. ** I guess that means that wives of retired men don’t need to have sex anymore… **.