This is why people leave the Church

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So, my father just died. We were estranged for a long time. He was a cradle Catholic, and I find myself in the process of trying to sort out funeral arrangements for him. My parents are extremely poor–like, well below the national poverty standard, live in a house that really ought to be condemned, and so on. No life insurance. Nothing.

As a result, my sisters and I are trying to get him a Catholic funeral and burial at a reasonable price (we’re none of us exactly wealthy ourselves), and frankly, the whole process has made me realize once more that it’s stuff like this that makes people leave the Church.

Example A: Cremation is permitted by the Church as long as it isn’t done out of disrespect for the body. We mean no disrespect in wanting him cremated; we simply find it rather hard to swallow that not cremating him means a literal 4x increase in the funeral home costs. (And yes, we’ve shopped around: this is the “cheap” funeral home in town.)

Despite this, and despite the fact that the diocese permits cremation prior to Mass, the priest is refusing Dad a public funeral Mass if we cremate him first because “he isn’t comfortable with it” and “it would create scandal.” Ergo, we have to pay a minimum of 3-4x as much as we’d otherwise pay, depending on whether we have him cremated or buried ahem whole afterwards, in order to have his funeral Mass said at his parish.

Mind you, that isn’t counting the fee for the plot at the Catholic cemetery. When I asked them about financial assistance (even with a cremation spot, the plot costs twice as much as the cremation!), I was cheerfully told that they offer a 10% discount as a public charity if the deceased dies in the month of November–All Souls, don’t you know! As Dad inconsiderately passed from this vale in one of the other 11 months of the year, we aren’t eligible for assistance. 😛

(Yes, the bishop will be hearing about all this in a polite-and-courteous-but-firm letter once I’ve calmed down a bit.)

To top it all off, I can confidently expect that that payment of several thousand dollars to move the deceased’s body all of 5 miles (max) roundtrip will guarantee a nice long eulogy talk by the priest afterwards about how my parents are an example of a Good Catholic Couple. Hey, you can be a violent, abusive alcoholic who refuses to support your children, commits identity theft and tax fraud with their information, and generally does your best to ruin their lives, but so long as The Proprieties Are Followed, you too can be lauded as a wonderful example of Catholicism! I mean, drunk-driving with your kids in the car, beating them, and denying them an education is one thing; having the aforementioned abused kids not entirely thrilled about dropping large sums of cash to transport your body a short distance is another entirely. :rolleyes: At least, it seems, in the eyes of the Church.

No, I’m not leaving. Whether a good or a bad thing, I have too much faith in the Real Presence to leave. I don’t even know why, and maybe that’s partly what faith is: you don’t know or understand, you just believe in your heart for reasons you can’t explain. But if I didn’t have that faith, I’d be another very, very angry ex-Catholic right about now. It really does seem sometimes as though the Church has a very special way of kicking a person when they’re down.
 
I’m so, so sorry you are going through this. Internet hugs Your family is not being treated with the dignity you deserve in this awful time.
 
Next time try a different parish, or else a different church. That’s what happens in a competitive market.
 
Have the funeral plans already been finalized or could you maybe as your pastor to do the funeral? There doesn’t need to be a eulogy at all and frankly, that’s probably best when the person was difficult to get along with.
 
So, my father just died. We were estranged for a long time. He was a cradle Catholic, and I find myself in the process of trying to sort out funeral arrangements for him. My parents are extremely poor–like, well below the national poverty standard, live in a house that really ought to be condemned, and so on. No life insurance. Nothing.

As a result, my sisters and I are trying to get him a Catholic funeral and burial at a reasonable price (we’re none of us exactly wealthy ourselves), and frankly, the whole process has made me realize once more that it’s stuff like this that makes people leave the Church.

Example A: Cremation is permitted by the Church as long as it isn’t done out of disrespect for the body. We mean no disrespect in wanting him cremated; we simply find it rather hard to swallow that not cremating him means a literal 4x increase in the funeral home costs. (And yes, we’ve shopped around: this is the “cheap” funeral home in town.)

Despite this, and despite the fact that the diocese permits cremation prior to Mass, the priest is refusing Dad a public funeral Mass if we cremate him first because “he isn’t comfortable with it” and “it would create scandal.” Ergo, we have to pay a minimum of 3-4x as much as we’d otherwise pay, depending on whether we have him cremated or buried ahem whole afterwards, in order to have his funeral Mass said at his parish.

Mind you, that isn’t counting the fee for the plot at the Catholic cemetery. When I asked them about financial assistance (even with a cremation spot, the plot costs twice as much as the cremation!), I was cheerfully told that they offer a 10% discount as a public charity if the deceased dies in the month of November–All Souls, don’t you know! As Dad inconsiderately passed from this vale in one of the other 11 months of the year, we aren’t eligible for assistance. 😛

(Yes, the bishop will be hearing about all this in a polite-and-courteous-but-firm letter once I’ve calmed down a bit.)

To top it all off, I can confidently expect that that payment of several thousand dollars to move the deceased’s body all of 5 miles (max) roundtrip will guarantee a nice long eulogy talk by the priest afterwards about how my parents are an example of a Good Catholic Couple. Hey, you can be a violent, abusive alcoholic who refuses to support your children, commits identity theft and tax fraud with their information, and generally does your best to ruin their lives, but so long as The Proprieties Are Followed, you too can be lauded as a wonderful example of Catholicism! I mean, drunk-driving with your kids in the car, beating them, and denying them an education is one thing; having the aforementioned abused kids not entirely thrilled about dropping large sums of cash to transport your body a short distance is another entirely. :rolleyes: At least, it seems, in the eyes of the Church.

No, I’m not leaving. Whether a good or a bad thing, I have too much faith in the Real Presence to leave. I don’t even know why, and maybe that’s partly what faith is: you don’t know or understand, you just believe in your heart for reasons you can’t explain. But if I didn’t have that faith, I’d be another very, very angry ex-Catholic right about now. It really does seem sometimes as though the Church has a very special way of kicking a person when they’re down.
Will your priest at least celebrate a Memorial Mass. These are allowed to be celebrated later at the convenience of the family and local parish.
 
I am so sorry you are going through this, but I’ve seen it around us (thankfully, not our parish). Can you possibly talk to another priest or do you have a Shrine near you where you can have the burial mass done?
 
Have the funeral plans already been finalized or could you maybe as your pastor to do the funeral? There doesn’t need to be a eulogy at all and frankly, that’s probably best when the person was difficult to get along with.
I believe there isn’t (strictly speaking) supposed to be a eulogy at all.
 
The pain of this is that it’s so time sensitive–you don’t have weeks to argue with the pastor.

If the decisions have already been made, give the diocese heck once you have time. This is a huge abuse of the faithful by the pastor–and it’s made worse by the fact that with a funeral, there’s no time to argue or petition. I would not limit myself to a letter–if you have the energy I would keep on going with it until the policy is changed.

If the decisions have not been made yet, keep leaning on the pastor as long as you can.

Some possible lines:

“Is this diocesan policy? Could you provide me a written description of the parish policy to forward to the diocese?”

“Who should I talk to at the diocese about this when I protest this policy?”

If the decision hasn’t already been made, I actually have a lot of hope that it will be possible for you to change the pastors mind, because “I don’t feel comfortable with this” is not what martyrs made of.

Good luck! I’m so sorry!
 
The Church has nothing to do with funeral home costs and the related services. I don’t know what makes you think that they do. Also, I doubt any parish Church has the ability to just give a plot to someone free of charge. My parish Church builds mausoleums and has expanded the cemetery because the demand is there, not because they just give space away. You can always have your father cremated, buried and have a funeral Mass done later. I’m sorry for your loss and the pain you feel but I get really bothered when someone says this is why people leave the Church when the fact is that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Church does or teaches. If your parents are truly indigent, your state should have a service to bury them ether free or at a low cost. It isn’t necessary to be buried in a Catholic cemetery but I think it is ideal.
 
The Church has nothing to do with funeral home costs and the related services. I don’t know what makes you think that they do. Also, I doubt any parish Church has the ability to just give a plot to someone free of charge. My parish Church builds mausoleums and has expanded the cemetery because the demand is there, not because they just give space away. You can always have your father cremated, buried and have a funeral Mass done later. I’m sorry for your loss and the pain you feel but I get really bothered when someone says this is why people leave the Church when the fact is that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Church does or teaches. If your parents are truly indigent, your state should have a service to bury them ether free or at a low cost. It isn’t necessary to be buried in a Catholic cemetery but I think it is ideal.
Despite this, and despite the fact that the diocese permits cremation prior to Mass, the priest is refusing Dad a public funeral Mass if we cremate him first because “he isn’t comfortable with it” and “it would create scandal.”
This is the church’s fault and is appalling.
 
Will your priest at least celebrate a Memorial Mass. These are allowed to be celebrated later at the convenience of the family and local parish.
I was wondering about something like this, myself.

Perhaps–if there is still time available for you/your family UbiCaritas–you can call and find out what the other options would be for a Mass or burial service for your Dad.

I think that there maybe are some other options that you can try too, if you have time to make some phone calls.

You can probably try making arrangements through a funeral home, if you want to go that way.

My Dad’s family did this for Catholic funerals in the family. They would arrange this through their local funeral home. It was not a Catholic funeral home.

Some of the family members who passed away did not belong to any particular parish, but had a funeral Mass at my Dad’s parish.

I know that your circumstances are different. I’m just mentioning this to let you know that he and his wife took care of the arrangements through the funeral home.

I am so very sorry for the added stress that you and your family are experiencing at this sad time for you too, UbiCaritas.

May God bless all of you in your time of need. :grouphug:
 
We’re your father and the priest close? Did your father attend Mass regularly?

You might try to see if the diocese has a fund to help as well
 
Don’t wait to write a letter - call the Bishop NOW. That priest is out of line - way out.

My brother-in-law had a similar problem when their son died - the Catholic half of the cemetery said they had “met their quota” and weren’t burying any more Catholics that month. So the entire family now has plots in the secular half. And it’s a large family.

I’ve heard priests say that finances shouldn’t be the main reason to have someone cremated. Really? That’s the main thing for most of us - we just can’t afford a rich person’s funeral with a casket & everything. We are also way below the poverty line, so it’s cremation & the National cemetery for us - I’m a veteran.
 
I am sorry for your loss - my prayers are with you and your family.

I agree that the costs associated with funeral home - cremation or embalming are not the responsibility of the Parish … that is secular - highly regulated by state laws - and Cremation is far less expensive than embalming.

There are resources to check … Social Security will provide burial assistance - not much $250 - but only to your mother if still living and / or minor children -

Was you father a veteran? - the VA provides some burial assistance - which would cover most of the cremation costs … and a head stone - and even burial plot in a VA cemetery - where your mother could also be buried …

It does not seem clear to me if your parents are active practicing Catholics, fallen away Catholics … and whose parish and priest you are seeking services from - yours or theirs - one familiar with them or not.

Services can be held soon and or delayed. If you are getting your father cremated - you have time to work on the details of where final internment will take place. Most parishes who have their own cemetery will have costs far lower than secular cemeteries and may offer a payment plan - but cemeteries are not maintenance free, there are costs and regulations to follow. Catholic cemeteries that are not associated with a specific parish have to be maintained financially to cover costs and have less flexibility.

I am not sure about indigent or low cost burial maintained by county or state - you could ask … I think in most states - Cremation is considered final disposition so you could bury the urn on your property - but verify that … you should not “scatter”

When my Spouse passed away we waited almost two weeks and would have waited longer if necessary due to two children traveling long distances - one from over seas.

I understand economic considerations - I did not really want Cremation - but for many reasons - Cost, location and time being the top three - it was my only option ,

You are upset, I understand that too … My loss was sudden and unexpected … not sure about your … obviously this was not something your parents financially planned for - which is sad … my heart does out to you

My experience is that funerals are venues that will bring more people back to the Church than drive them away … I have never been to a parish that did not do their best - within their means to provide a respectful service - for any Catholic living in its geographic area - even if they had never attended Mass - but ended their says in a nursing home … I have heard father tell the children - most of whom have stopped practicing - that he regretted not knowing their parents were there in the area because it would have been nice to offer them Communion and perhaps even the Anointing of the Sick.

Again, I am sorry you are under stress while dealing with this loss
 
Did you explain the financial situation of the family and ask the priest why he is uncomfortable with a solution that is absolutely permitted by the Church? Did the parish offer to pay the difference?

This is not a matter of faith. This is a matter in which it is entirely reasonable to resist a priest who is putting his arbitrary standard ahead of the legitimate interests of the family of the deceased. If the family was asking him to preside at a funeral where the cremated remains were to be scattered or otherwise denied an appropriate burial, refusing would be his duty. This refusal is not. I would have left his office and called the diocesan officials immediately, calmly but promptly seeking a more reasonable resolution to this problem, such as arranging to have a different priest preside at the funeral or moving it to a different parish.
 
I feel your pain, I’m burying my Mother In-Law in 2 days and know the funeral costs you are describing. You have every right to vent your frustration with the Church if by their policy are adding to your cost.
 
Thank you all for the kind words.

To clarify: I do recognize that the parish doesn’t set the (obscene) rates that the funeral home charges, and I don’t hold this priest responsible for them. What I do hold this priest responsible for is his refusal to follow diocesan policy and celebrate a funeral Mass with ashes present because it is somehow “more Catholic” to have the deceased in a coffin at the Mass, even though requiring this means that the deceased’s family has to pay several thousand dollars more just to get the funeral home to transport the remains in a rental coffin to and from the church.

In short, I am less than shocked that funeral directors are predatory vultures. 😉 (You can persuade me that there are plenty of fees associated with cremation et all, but you haven’t a chance in…a very warm place…of persuading me that a $500-$600/mile transport fee is reasonable.) I am, however, disgusted by this priest’s attitude. His comment that it would cause, and I quote, “scandal” to say a public funeral Mass for someone just because his family has a hard time paying several thousand dollars in fees to transport the non-cremated remains is well beyond the pale.

Re the cemetery: I do understand there are maintenance and environmental requirements and goodness-knows-what associated with running a cemetery. I included the “All Souls” comment as much out of wry humor as anything–it was an “icing on the cake” sort of situation.

Oh, and for context, my parents have been attending this parish for nearly two decades and know the priest moderately well. He has my mother persuaded now that it would essentially be a sin to have dad cremated beforehand. 🤷 I can’t do much about that. At this point, this whole mess is out of my hands, and I’m glad of it. I will be writing to the bishop when I can do so rationally.

ETA: I live across the country. I will be having my pastor say some Masses for the repose of dad’s soul no matter what goes on with the funeral.
 
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