This is why people leave the Church

[Xantippe]

Thank you all for the kind words.

To clarify: I do recognize that the parish doesn’t set the (obscene) rates that the funeral home charges, and I don’t hold this priest responsible for them. What I do hold this priest responsible for is his refusal to follow diocesan policy and celebrate a funeral Mass with ashes present because it is somehow “more Catholic” to have the deceased in a coffin at the Mass, even though requiring this means that the deceased’s family has to pay several thousand dollars more just to get the funeral home to transport the remains in a rental coffin to and from the church.

In short, I am less than shocked that funeral directors are predatory vultures. (You can persuade me that there are plenty of fees associated with cremation et all, but you haven’t a chance in…a very warm place…of persuading me that a $500-$600/mile transport fee is reasonable.) I am, however, disgusted by this priest’s attitude. His comment that it would cause, and I quote, “scandal” to say a public funeral Mass for someone just because his family has a hard time paying several thousand dollars in fees to transport the non-cremated remains is well beyond the pale.

Re the cemetery: I do understand there are maintenance and environmental requirements and goodness-knows-what associated with running a cemetery. I included the “All Souls” comment as much out of wry humor as anything–it was an “icing on the cake” sort of situation.

**Oh, and for context, my parents have been attending this parish for nearly two decades and know the priest moderately well. He has my mother persuaded now that it would essentially be a sin to have dad cremated beforehand. ** I can’t do much about that. At this point, this whole mess is out of my hands, and I’m glad of it. I will be writing to the bishop when I can do so rationally.

ETA: I live across the country. I will be having my pastor say some Masses for the repose of dad’s soul no matter what goes on with the funeral.

If your parents are/were weird people, I suppose it’s not a big surprise that their pastor is weird, too.

I would consider adding the persuasion-not-to-cremate to the complaint letter. It’s kind of a big social justice issue to be guilting a destitute widow into taking on expenses she cannot afford.

There are a lot of things that this pastor is doing that he should not be doing, and the diocese needs to know. (I feel like the All Souls discount is pretty tacky/insensitive.) There are a lot of Catholics less informed than yourself, and you’re quite right in thinking that the pastor’s conduct is a source of scandal.

 

[YADA]

Thank you all for the kind words.

To clarify: I do recognize that the parish doesn’t set the (obscene) rates that the funeral home charges, and I don’t hold this priest responsible for them. What I do hold this priest responsible for is his refusal to follow diocesan policy and celebrate a funeral Mass with ashes present because it is somehow “more Catholic” to have the deceased in a coffin at the Mass, even though requiring this means that the deceased’s family has to pay several thousand dollars more just to get the funeral home to transport the remains in a rental coffin to and from the church.

In short, I am less than shocked that funeral directors are predatory vultures. (You can persuade me that there are plenty of fees associated with cremation et all, but you haven’t a chance in…a very warm place…of persuading me that a $500-$600/mile transport fee is reasonable.) I am, however, disgusted by this priest’s attitude. His comment that it would cause, and I quote, “scandal” to say a public funeral Mass for someone just because his family has a hard time paying several thousand dollars in fees to transport the non-cremated remains is well beyond the pale.

Re the cemetery: I do understand there are maintenance and environmental requirements and goodness-knows-what associated with running a cemetery. I included the “All Souls” comment as much out of wry humor as anything–it was an “icing on the cake” sort of situation.

Oh, and for context, my parents have been attending this parish for nearly two decades and know the priest moderately well. He has my mother persuaded now that it would essentially be a sin to have dad cremated beforehand. I can’t do much about that. At this point, this whole mess is out of my hands, and I’m glad of it. I will be writing to the bishop when I can do so rationally.

ETA: I live across the country. I will be having my pastor say some Masses for the repose of dad’s soul no matter what goes on with the funeral.

I am sorry you are having such a hard time here … and feel like you are not getting the help you need. I received more support - and I chose cremation and we had a funeral Mass.

I split my time between to parishes - one urban, large and the other small rural. The urban parish is dear to me - as I have been a member there far longer. My spouse died in the hospital 25 miles from the rural parish. The priest [who I knew from the urban parish years before] at the town where my spouse died asked if I would have the funeral there at his parish or at the rural parish - which I also love by the way - I said neither - I wanted the urban parish but I also wanted him to say the Mass - we had our marriage blessed there, many ties … because of the cost to transport a body 3 hours and 200 miles and delaying the funeral for a child living over seas - and knowing the financial burden - it was my priest who said cremation was my only option and I struggled with it - but he was right …

That loving priest did not even let me drive home from the hospital after the death. When I called them to inform of the death - he told my children when they arrived to call him before we spoke with the funeral home as he did not want me coerced or made to feel like I needed to purchase unnecessary services - he met us there and help me through the process.

I with my eldest son transported the “ashes” that 200 miles …

Was your father a vet? Don’t forget about the Social Security Death benefit - its not much but it is something. It is really sad that you have been estranged from your father - that makes this all the more hard for you … just don’t get hung up on the big funeral Mass …

ALSO - The Funeral Rites of the Church are Threefold. 1] the Vigil Liturgy [some people have a Rosary but by “Rites” pun intended its a Vigil Service, followed by a 2] Mass and then comes the Committal Service at the cemetery. In the past the Vigil was held the night before, the *** the next morning and the Committal immediately following … now it rare to have all three and often times they are separated by days. There is great wisdom in the Rites of the Church - and the funeral rites are for the living, the saying good bye is a journey the Rites help us walk

Pax Christe

 

[bitterhope]

I’m so sorry you are going through this. I had a very similar experience when my twins died. Unfortunately this is a more common experience than many people think. Our twins were not cremated but we had to have them transported back home to have a funeral and then buried because our priest determined that since they died in utero, they were “never alive and therefore could not have a Catholic funeral.” Thankfully my mom’s pastor saw things differently; however, that means our babies are buried 7 hours away in a place we most likely will never live again. If I could have had them cremated and then carried their ashes with us until we were in a permanent location (after retirement), my heart would have been much more at peace. We would have buried them in a place we would have been able to visit, care for their grave, buried with them in time. Yes, remaining strong in your faith in the midst of these situations is a huge struggle. I’m praying for you and your family, as well as for your father.

 

[felsguy]

Have you considered having a funeral Mass with the body present with cremation and burial to take place later? Many funeral homes provide a casket for the Mass (and even for a viewing if desired) at a much lower cost. Also, many parishes allow a viewing to take place at the church immediately before the funeral Mass which eliminates many of the costs for the funeral home, staff, transportation, etc.

By the way, for what’s worth based on what you say I think the priest is out of line.

Prayers for you and your family in this stressful time.

 

[RCinMT]

The priest is way out of line. Perhaps Catholic Churches within a given city or area should band together and purchase a casket for use at funeral masses for departed who will be cremated later. If my parish took up a collection I would contribute.

 

[Anne1964]

The priest is way out of line. You should definitely complain to the Diocese.

Before my mother died last year she indicated her wish to be cremated. As my pastor told me, burial with the body is preferred by the Church but cremation is permitted. As I had several weeks to prepare for my mother’s death I was able to speak with several funeral homes about the cost of cremation. There are places that just do cremation and are not funeral homes. They are MUCH cheaper. The funeral homes wanted between $3500-$4000. My mother’s cremation was $1000.

Instead of a Catholic cemetery you may consider finding out which Catholic churches in the area have columbariums with niches for ashes. The cemetery where my father is buried wanted to charge $3500 to “open the grave” to place my mother’s ashes in the ground. There were two churches in the area that have columbariums. One charges $1600 for a niche and the other charges $2500. I wanted my mother’s ashes inurned at the church that charged $2500 but I couldn’t afford it so I called my pastor and asked him if he could help and he called the pastor of the church where the columbarium is and arranged for me to pay $1500 for the niche. Inurnment in a columbarium typically includes an urn and having the deceased’s name and birth/death dates engraved on the front of the columbarium.

I hate that it sounds like I tried to find the least expensive way to have my mother cremated, but that is the reality. I am not wealthy and neither was she.

I will pray for you and your family.

 

[esieffe]

I have asked Our Lady to pray for you.

Call the Bishop at first daylight. Maybe they can have someone else do the service, or compel the priest to do so. I would also ask about funding. Please consider a “go fund me” account as well. What could it hurt? Some Catholics might be grateful to participate in an act of corporeal mercy.

 

[Luz_Maria]

Am so sorry you are going through so much, Ubi. My condolences to you and your family. Prayers said for you.

I’ll be brief with a couple of thoughts. There are Christian Funeral homes and Directors who are very compassionate and help out (the ones I have dealt with have not been Catholic). There are some that will “hold” the cremains until the other spouse passes so that they may be inurned together. I do not know “Canon Law” on this or if the cremains of both husband and wife may be placed in the same niche.

I have been at Funeral Masses where the cremains of the deceased were present with no problem at all. There are also many places in the world where the body or cremains is not taken to the church at all, but it is called a “Funeral Mass” and it obviously is.

Yes, that priest is way out of line.

 

[YADA]

also - since cost is a factor - you can purchase caskets and urn through COSTCO … and they deliver very quickly - many people do not know that COSTCO offers this service -

I ordered my spouse’s Urn from COSTCO and shortly after ordered a second one - its in the closet with all of the funeral readings and music … I told my kids - those decisions seemed good enough then - they are good enough for me and now they don’t have to worry about that part …

Even though cremated I opted for burial plot - we will both be in the same grave site … and since my spouse was cremated so will I be …

But I thought I would let you know about the caskets and urns … they were cheaper than you can get at the funeral home and they will allow you to purchase them …

And - my brother who is a carpenter made our fathers urn from oak he had from other furniture projects … it was a labor of love for him …

 

[Viki63]

Did you explain the financial situation of the family and ask the priest why he is uncomfortable with a solution that is absolutely permitted by the Church? Did the parish offer to pay the difference?

This is not a matter of faith. This is a matter in which it is entirely reasonable to resist a priest who is putting his arbitrary standard ahead of the legitimate interests of the family of the deceased. If the family was asking him to preside at a funeral where the cremated remains were to be scattered or otherwise denied an appropriate burial, refusing would be his duty. This refusal is not. I would have left his office and called the diocesan officials immediately, calmly but promptly seeking a more reasonable resolution to this problem, such as arranging to have a different priest preside at the funeral or moving it to a different parish.

I agree with this.
In the last 2 months I’ve been to 2 funeral masses in which the ashes of the deceased were present. I’ve purchased 2 niches in a columbarium for my husband and me, through the church, and there has been no problem with cremation. You’re correct it’s much less expensive. Please contact the diocese and ask them to help your family work with this priest.
God bless.
‘’.

.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I’m sorry you are in this situation. My grandfathers plot in a Catholic graveyard cost more than what someone on minimum wage would make in a year and there really needs to be more support for people who don’t have large amounts of cash lying around. It must be especially hard for only children who don’t have anyone to share the cost with. People shouldn’t have to go into debt for the sake of a loved one’s funeral.

 

[Xantippe]

This isn’t relevant to the OP, but I have to put in a plug for life insurance here.

Even a very small policy would be enough to cover a funeral.

 

[pensmama87]

This isn’t relevant to the OP, but I have to put in a plug for life insurance here.

Even a very small policy would be enough to cover a funeral.

Or pre-paying for what you can. Another poster mentioned having bought coffins/urns already.

My understanding is that my grandparents, my husband’s grandmother, and his parents have already planned and paid for their funerals. It may be a little creepy to do it, but I think it’s a really kind and loving thing to do for one’s survivors. I know that’s something we’ll look into as soon as we’re in a financial position to be able to do so.

One less thing for our kids to worry about.

 

[Xantippe]

Or pre-paying for what you can. Another poster mentioned having bought coffins/urns already.

My understanding is that my grandparents, my husband’s grandmother, and his parents have already planned and paid for their funerals. It may be a little creepy to do it, but I think it’s a really kind and loving thing to do for one’s survivors. I know that’s something we’ll look into as soon as we’re in a financial position to be able to do so.

One less thing for our kids to worry about.

That is very thoughtful of your older relatives to have done that.

I know Dave Ramsey recommends pre-planning funerals, but recommends not pre-paying.

I find the light tone at the beginning of this piece a little annoying–but there’s some very helpful stuff about federal law further down:

daveramsey.com/blog/facing-the-funeral-before-you-have-to

*Watch out for the guilt card [from funeral homes]. They’re going to play it. “It’s the last thing you’ll be able to do for your loved one,” they’ll say in a voice dripping with false sympathy. “A person that special really deserves a special farewell,” or “Goodness knows they’d have done the same for you.”"

As it happens, my husband has specifically requested a nice pine box when the time comes. (I’m not sure that that’s available these days, though–COSTCO is probably a reasonable substitute.)

 

[psalm90]

My opinion: have the cremation, take the ashes. Have a memorial service wherever you can afford. Archdioces of Detroit cemeteries are accepting ashes from anybody and burying them for free. check online for details.

The funeral is not a sacrament. Do what you can, with dignity. when I called my parish when my mother died, I got a nun at the funeral home for 5 minutes.

250,000 people die in the world every day, and I’m sure they don’t get what they deserve regarding burial.

You know what the priest says at Mass: “Lift up your hearts.” Do what you can afford and let it go at that.

Regarding the Church: it is far from welcoming at times, and it sounds like a classic case that your priest is not ‘listening.’ Forgive him. Forgive your father.

And, move on. Pope Francis says we should be a church of the poor and for the poor. we’re not there yet. don’t be ashamed. Do not sin.

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree with this.
In the last 2 months I’ve been to 2 funeral masses in which the ashes of the deceased were present. I’ve purchased 2 niches in a columbarium for my husband and me, through the church, and there has been no problem with cremation. You’re correct it’s much less expensive. Please contact the diocese and ask them to help your family work with this priest.
God bless.
‘’.

.

We are lucky here, because our archdiocese put together standard funeral policies which clearly outline how things are to be done. It is essentially a document that gives canon law and then gives directions to the pastors about how special circumstances ought to be handled.

archdpdx.org/documents/2016/8/funeral-policies.pdf

This was done by a combination of work by the Presbyterial Council and all the priests of the archdiocese, working during their annual convocation. I’m sure it was a tremendous amount of work, but it is such a good thing to have all the policies so clearly written down and explained for the laity. (I have to think it also discourages individual pastors from adding personal policies that put unnecessary obstacles in place.)

 

[UbiCaritas]

We are lucky here, because our archdiocese put together standard funeral policies which clearly outline how things are to be done. It is essentially a document that gives canon law and then gives directions to the pastors about how special circumstances ought to be handled.

archdpdx.org/documents/2016/8/funeral-policies.pdf

This was done by a combination of work by the Presbyterial Council and all the priests of the archdiocese, working during their annual convocation. I’m sure it was a tremendous amount of work, but it is such a good thing to have all the policies so clearly written down and explained for the laity. (I have to think it also discourages individual pastors from adding personal policies that put unnecessary obstacles in place.)

Thank you so very much for this post. It wouldn’t have occurred to me that this sort of document might be publicly posted. As it happens, a quick Google search led me to the diocese in question’s version, which clearly states that it’s permissible to do a funeral with ashes present. I will be citing this when writing to the bishop.

 

[PassingSoul]

My opinion: have the cremation, take the ashes. Have a memorial service wherever you can afford. Archdioces of Detroit cemeteries are accepting ashes from anybody and burying them for free. check online for details.

The funeral is not a sacrament. Do what you can, with dignity. when I called my parish when my mother died, I got a nun at the funeral home for 5 minutes.

250,000 people die in the world every day, and I’m sure they don’t get what they deserve regarding burial.

You know what the priest says at Mass: “Lift up your hearts.” Do what you can afford and let it go at that.

Regarding the Church: it is far from welcoming at times, and it sounds like a classic case that your priest is not ‘listening.’ Forgive him. Forgive your father.

And, move on. Pope Francis says we should be a church of the poor and for the poor. we’re not there yet. don’t be ashamed. Do not sin.

I believe you given very good advice here.

 

[redbaron162]

I’m am sorry about your negative experience

I know the monastery in our state offers cheap natural burial (no tombstone or coffin) in the woods on their property for basically free. Burials are insanely expensive and I wish there were more options available. We don’t even really have Catholic cemeteries around here anymore. We barely have any cemeteries at all as it is (The county wont approve more land for cemeteries since there is no money to be gained by it)

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you so very much for this post. It wouldn’t have occurred to me that this sort of document might be publicly posted. As it happens, a quick Google search led me to the diocese in question’s version, which clearly states that it’s permissible to do a funeral with ashes present. I will be citing this when writing to the bishop.

Take it to the pastor right now, if it is not too late to have this funeral done according to the family’s wishes. He may relent. Even if it is too late to change anything now, show it to him personally and express your disappointment that he chose not to accommodate the family, particularly considering the circumstances. It may be he will not repeat this unfortunate mistake with another family in a similar situation.

Besides, it will be good to be able to tell the bishop that you have had a conversation with the pastor in question, and relate how it went. Just like school principals wanting parents to try to work out problems directly with teachers, bishops like to know that the laity has made an effort to work out problems directly with pastors and other priests.They understandably dislike confronting a priest with a complaint when the priest had not heard the complaint directly from the aggrieved party first. Excepting when the aggrieved party has a reason to fear retribution, that is only fair.

I’m very sorry you had to go through this at such a sorrowful time. I’m sure we all hope the funeral will be consoling to you and a fitting tribute, in spite of this problem.