"This is your sin, and I will sin again!"

[WesleyF]

Pope Francis seems to have a habit of saying apparently scandalous things. I came across this statement of his from the Vatican news website.
“What is reconciliation? Taking one from this side, taking another one for that side and uniting them: no, that’s part of it but it’s not it … True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again’. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us.” * - Pope Francis

Could someone please explain?

 

[DavidFilmer]

I think he refers to 1Cor 5:21:

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[R_C]

Pope Francis seems to have a habit of saying apparently scandalous things. I came across this statement of his from the Vatican news website.
“What is reconciliation? Taking one from this side, taking another one for that side and uniting them: no, that’s part of it but it’s not it … True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again*’. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us.” - Pope Francis

Could someone please explain?

Well, he is speaking some deep theology here - quite surprising, since he tends to not dwell into such profound statements and be a bit more practical!

Others explained it above quoting St. Paul, but also indeed we do know that we will sin again - does anyone believe to be able to remain sinless?? What matters is our intention to not sin again by God’s grace. Which is why we pray: ne nos inducas in tentationem, lead us not into temptation. Often times the Lord allows us to fall, that we may stand up again.

 

[Lasting_faith]

I think it is only a small part of a larger speach, or interview and without the question and the what is said in the end, there is really no way to interpret what Our Holy Father did mean. (IMHO)

 

[graciew]

Some context for that homily.
And no,our Pope does not have the “habit” of saying “apparently scandalous” things.
The only “scandal” here was the Cross.

en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=701813

 

[psuedocenturian]

Concluding his homily the Pope recalls the inner anxiety of Paul. Pope Francis underlines that which defines the “pillar” of Christian life, namely, that "Christ became sin for me! And my sins are there in his body, in his soul! This - says the Pope - it’s crazy, but it’s beautiful, it’s true! This is the scandal of the Cross! "

Text from page en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=701813
of the Vatican Radio website

I believe The Pope is referring to Propitiation. I agree with the Holy Father. It is the literal Good news that Christianity seeks to spread.

 

[ann555]

The pope said "Jesus “became the sinner” to reconcile men with the Father.

Text from page en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=701813
of the Vatican Radio website

My understanding is that Jesus never “sinned.” Therefore he was never a “sinner.” Him taking on our sins did not make him a sinner.

 

[DaveBj]

The pope said "Jesus “became the sinner” to reconcile men with the Father.

Text from page en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=701813
of the Vatican Radio website

My understanding is that Jesus never “sinned.” Therefore he was never a “sinner.” Him taking on our sins did not make him a sinner.

I have to agree with you. St. Paul wrote in Colossians that Christ, who knew no sin, was made sin so that we might be made the righteousness of God. But there is a universe of difference between “being made sin” and “becoming a sinner.”

 

[ann555]

I have to admit I find it troublesome that the pope said this.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Sometimes I wonder if there may be some need to bridge cultural gaps in understanding things the Holy Father says. It may be that a lot of us in the US and Europe are more used to “Euro-centric” ways of the Church being run and the way we were catechised (the “Spirit of Vatican II” hippie excesses aside ).

I fully realize that I’m going out on a couple of limbs here: 1) using the term “Euro-centric” in the first place, since it can mean being of the mindset that all of Western culture should be suspect because it’s probably just a bunch of fuddy-duddy old white guys, etc. which isn’t what I mean; and 2) possibly being completely off the mark and revealing my own ignorance.

Also there’s the Jesuit charism to consider - we aren’t always used to that, and it has shaped Francis’s ways of thinking. But again, I’m not referring to the stereotype that is negative, but rather to an intellectual and spiritual tradition most of us laypeople don’t encounter on a routine basis.

I think the first few posts on this thread are probably pretty accurate. The “Euro-centric” little girl in me who wants to pipe up and say “But - but - Sister said we have to make a Perfect Act of Contrition - and promise never to sin again - ! How can this possibly fit in - ?!” needs to take a chill pill.

Context. Benefit of the doubt. Faith. Our Holy Father is going to lead us well. But along the way, he is going to surprise us and make us think. God’s in charge. We’re going to be okay.

 

[graciew]

I have read the Spanish version,and Italian.

I do not mean to offend by posting in Spanish,but it says very clearly that “This is yours,and I make you become sin again. And he likes that,because it has been his mission,become sin for us,to free us”

“Pero ¿qué es la reconciliación? Tomar a uno de esta parte, tomar a otro y hacer que estén unidos: no, esta es una parte pero no es… La verdadera reconciliación es que Dios, en Cristo, ha tomado nuestros pecados y Él se ha hecho pecado por nosotros. Y cando vamos a confesarnos, por ejemplo, no es que decimos el pecado y Dios nos perdona. No, ¡no es esto! Nosotros encontramos a Jesucristo y le decimos: ‘Esto es tuyo y yo te hago pecado otra vez. Y a Él le gusta eso, porque ha sido su misión: hacerse pecado por nosotros, para liberarnos.
Es la belleza y el “escándalo” de la redención que Jesús llevó a cabo dijo Francisco:"

In the Italian version,the phrase in question is even between inverted commas.
Maybe "make you become sin " can even be translated as “make you sin again” being sin here not a verb but a noun. Hope it clarifies

If anyone can read any of these languages,you will notice the difference.
Peace.

news.va/es/news/el-cristiano-no-piensa-en-su-paz-anuncia-la-de-cri

 

[Prodigal_Son]

In English, “I will sin again” sounds like a statement of intention. It can’t be that, though, since obviously we’re not supposed to intend to sin, when we repent and offer our sins to Jesus. So can anyone who speaks Italian tell me about the meaning of “I will sin again” in the original Italian? Is it simply predictive? If so, it might be better translated, “though I know I’ll sin again.”

 

[graciew]

In English, “I will sin again” sounds like a statement of intention. It can’t be that, though, since obviously we’re not supposed to intend to sin, when we repent and offer our sins to Jesus. So can anyone who speaks Italian tell me about the meaning of “I will sin again” in the original Italian? Is it simply predictive? If so, it might be better translated, “though I know I’ll sin again.”

There is no such phrase as the title of the thread neither in Spanish translation nor Italian transcript of the homily.
There is no " I will sin again" nor " he became a sinner"
This is what I have tried to explain.

“Ma cosa è la riconciliazione? Prendere uno da questa parte, prenderne un altro e farli uniti: no, questa è parte ma non è… La vera riconciliazione è che Dio, in Cristo, ha preso i nostri peccati e Lui si è fatto peccato per noi. E quando noi andiamo a confessarci, per esempio, non è che diciamo il peccato e Dio ci perdona. No, non è quello! Noi troviamo Gesù Cristo e gli diciamo: ‘Questo è tuo e io ti faccio peccato un’altra volta’. E a Lui piace quello, perché è stata la sua missione: farsi peccato per noi, per liberare a noi”.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

There is no such phrase as the title of the thread neither in Spanish translation nor Italian transcript of the homily.
There is no " I will sin again" nor " he became a sinner"
This is what I have tried to explain.

“Ma cosa è la riconciliazione? Prendere uno da questa parte, prenderne un altro e farli uniti: no, questa è parte ma non è… La vera riconciliazione è che Dio, in Cristo, ha preso i nostri peccati e Lui si è fatto peccato per noi. E quando noi andiamo a confessarci, per esempio, non è che diciamo il peccato e Dio ci perdona. No, non è quello! Noi troviamo Gesù Cristo e gli diciamo: ‘Questo è tuo e io ti faccio peccato un’altra volta’. E a Lui piace quello, perché è stata la sua missione: farsi peccato per noi, per liberare a noi”.

But “I will make you become sin again” sounds like an intention, no? Surely we should not *intend *to cast our sin onto Jesus again, since we should intend not to sin again. Or am I missing something?

 

[Genesis315]

That’s kind of disconcerting that this translation was done this way–who working for the Vatican does not recongize the passage from Corinthians and would translate Christ becoming sin to Christ being a sinner?!?

I hope more important and authoritative papal acts are translated with more competence.

 

[Rachel126]

I agree with those who are saying that we must be very cautious in taking things said (by anyone) out of context.

 

[graciew]

But “I will make you become sin again” sounds like an intention, no? Surely we should not *intend *to cast our sin onto Jesus again, since we should intend not to sin again. Or am I missing something?

Prodigal son,as I understand it, He who is happy to be our Lawyer and Redeemer is our beloved Jesus.
I see no word in the passage that expresses we are happy to sin,but should be humble enough to praise our Jesus for what He has done,and recognize His grace every time we sin and His willingness to forgive us.
This is what I understand.
I do not doubt Pope Francis.I am an oxen .I can only listen and learn from our Pope.
By the way,I can speak some languages but I am not an expert translator.I did my best cause in this case translation was pretty simple to clear doubts. Spanish is my mother tongue.
God bless you and peace.

 

[graciew]

Here is a note that explains how the Holy See is addressing the issue of the homilies.
It was posted by AndyP 2010 in a thread about Pope Francis’ daily homilies,page 12 or 13.
Hope it helps.
God bless you and peace.

Home > Church > 2013-05-30 12:00:37

Lombardi: Note on daily Mass homilies

(Vatican Radio) On account of the great interest expressed in Pope Francis’ homilies at morning Mass, many people have asked about the possibility of receiving the full text of those homilies, and not just the summaries published by L’Osservatore Romano and Vatican Radio.

In a brief note, Father Lombardi, the Director of the Holy See Press Office, has explained the decision to publish partial syntheses of the Holy Father’s homily, rather than the full text.

Pope Francis, he said, wants to retain the familiar atmosphere that characterises the daily Mass, which is typically attended by a small number of the faithful. “For that reason,” Fr. Lombardi said, the Holy Father has specifically requested that the live video and audio not be broadcast.

The Pope’s daily homily, Fr. Lombardi said, is delivered spontaneously, and not from a written text, and in Italian – a language Pope Francis knows well, but which is not his mother tongue. An integral, or official, text, would necessarily have to be transcribed and slightly reworked, given the differences between a written work and the homilies’ original oral form. In short, he said, there would have to be a revision by the Holy Father himself – but this would clearly result in something that differs from what the Holy Father intends in his daily homily.

Father Lombardi went on to explain how the Holy See is addressing the issue:

“We must insist on the fact that, in all of the Pope’s activities, the difference between different situations and celebrations, as well as the different levels of authority of his words, must be understood and respected. So, for the Pope’s public celebrations or activities, broadcast live on television and radio, the sermons or speeches are transcribed and published in full. During smaller, more familiar celebrations and functions, we have to pay attention to the character of the situation, and the spontaneity and familiarity of the Pope’s remarks. The solution respects both the intention of the Pope and the nature of the morning Mass, on the one hand; and, on the other hand, the desire to give the wider public the opportunity to hear the message of the Holy Father even in such circumstances.

“And so, after careful consideration, it seems the best way to make the richness of the Pope’s homilies accessible to a wide audience, without altering the nature of his remarks, is to publish a detailed summary, rich in direct quotations that reflect the genuine flavour of the Pope’s expressions. L’Osservatore Romano undertakes this responsibility every day. Vatican Radio, on account of the nature of the medium, offers a shorter synthesis, including some of the original sound, while CTV offers a video clip corresponding to one of the audio inserts published by Vatican Radio.”

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Text from page en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/30/lombardi:_note_on_daily_mass_homilies/en1-696783
of the Vatican Radio website

 

[Aloysium]

“Ma cosa è la riconciliazione? Prendere uno da questa parte, prenderne un altro e farli uniti: no, questa è parte ma non è… La vera riconciliazione è che Dio, in Cristo, ha preso i nostri peccati e Lui si è fatto peccato per noi. E quando noi andiamo a confessarci, per esempio, non è che diciamo il peccato e Dio ci perdona. No, non è quello! Noi troviamo Gesù Cristo e gli diciamo: ‘Questo è tuo e io ti faccio peccato un’altra volta’. E a Lui piace quello, perché è stata la sua missione: farsi peccato per noi, per liberare a noi”.

I would liberally translate this as:

"So what is reconciliation? Uniting one side with the other; this is only part of it. True reconciliation is God, in Christ, taking onto Himself our sins, becoming the sin. And when we confess, for example, it is not that we tell our sins and God forgives us. It is not that. We find Jesus Christ and we say to Him, “This is yours, I give you my sin, You become sin again (as was done to you on the cross). And He wants that, because it was His mission; becoming sin for us, to free us.”

something like that

 

[graciew]

I would liberally translate this as:

"So what is reconciliation? Uniting one side with the other; this is only part of it. True reconciliation is God, in Christ, taking onto Himself our sins, becoming the sin. And when we confess, for example, it is not that we tell our sins and God forgives us. It is not that. We find Jesus Christ and we say to Him, “This is yours, I give you my sin, You become sin again (as was done to you on the cross). And He wants that, because it was His mission; becoming sin for us, to free us.”

something like that

Yes,agree.It goes something like that in the Spanish translation too.