This just really angered me

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Pray that all who love Jesus will respond to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and come to the unity of the Catholic Church, so there will be one flock under one shpeherd proclaiming one faith, one Lord, and one Baptism :signofcross:
 
Wow, I wish the folks of a website of a famous talkhost personality I frequent and which is teeming with Protestant and other "christian-"deemed churches could see this dialogue about the scandal of their christian disunity. Maybe some eyes will be opened.

If you want to see the untenable theory of Bible Alone, that website proofs it.

Kudos to the fantastic, courageous Catholics who defend the Faith. I sometimes reflect on how even Jesus in his time was not able to convince everyone of the truths He taught.
 
No need to get angry.

Misguided as that might be, for the most part, they are ALL sincere in their beliefs. They honestly feel that they are trying to live God’s word … they’re just totally oblivious to the fact that SS is not the way to ascertain God’s word and that all it will ever accomplish is to split them up even further.

I guess God either wants it this way, or is just allowing it to go on for some good reason.

… man, if I get to see God face to face (if I’m successful at working out my salvation with fear and trembling ), I’m gonna ask Him what His plan was for these protestants … that question and what was that which Jesus wrote on the ground.
 
Well I was going to attend church to see what this god was all about but every time I look at it, I see church people arguing about what church is the best or the most right.

If everyone says everyone else is wrong, whos to trust anyhow.??

And on top of that whos to say what god is right anyway. Theres so many gods to look at.

Just some thoughts from my non-Christian friends. Maybe instead of being angry that there is sooo many churches, maybe be happy there are people seeking God. They could be after Buddah who is quite popular.

🙂
 
Kitty_Chan said:
Just some thoughts from my non-Christian friends. Maybe instead of being angry that there is sooo many churches, maybe be happy there are people seeking God. They could be after Buddah who is quite popular.

🙂
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True. But the point is–to these non-Catholic Christians–they’re facing the right direction but they’re missing out on so MUCH.

We’ve got the Sacraments, the true Church that Jesus gave us as His body (do they think He was lying when he said “Peter, you are rock upon which I build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”?)

It’s like someone on Catholic radio said—“why eat raw eggs when the cake is already made?”
 
bakhita said:
It’s like someone on Catholic radio said—“why eat raw eggs when the cake is already made?”
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Yeah, but I’d rather have raw eggs and actually eat them, than to have a cake that I just left untouched while I sat hungry. Better to be a Protestant who practices than a Catholic who doesn’t.
 
twosweetgirls said:
And please pardon if this is in the wrong place! I’m new here and still finding my way around. This board ROCKS, btw. I could read it for literal hours. Oh wait, I already do. 😉

We attended a wedding yesterday at a Lutheran church. On one wall they had a bunch of pamphlets outlining what they believed in. (this particular Lutheran church was Missouri synod) I pulled out the ones regarding communion, confession and ordination of women. Was I dismayed–and angered, really–to read the pamphlet on communion which stated “We reject and condemn the Real Presence” along with other “we reject and condemn” statements. The pamphlet on ordaining women was the same thing, and the pamphlet on confession outlined why it was a good thing to confess to the pastor and God. Then I asked a woman what exactly the Lutheran divisions were, and she said that WELS was “ultra-conservative”, Missouri synod was “conservative”, and ELCA was (in her words) “too progressive”. In light of her explanations and what I read, I politely turned the conversation elsewhere.

So here’s the thing: certain Lutheran churches believe one thing; other Lutheran churches believe another. Then on our way home, I was inordinately aware of every church we passed–Grace Lutheran, Evangelical Lutheran, St. Stephen Lutheran. . . Free Baptist, First Baptist. . . Wesley Methodist, United Methodist, Allbright Methodist. . . Church of Christ, Evangelical Church of Christ, United Church of Christ. . . Assemblies of God, Foursquare Gospel. . . Covenant Evangelical, Christ the Lord Evangelical, Community Bible Evangelical. . . United Presbyterian, Trinity Presbyterian. . . I could go on and on and on.

And it just angered me–angers me still. It’s like, for goodness’ sake, can’t they get anything RIGHT?? I don’t know what was more upsetting to me, the fact that my Catholicism is so blatantly “rejected and condemned”, the fact that all these millions of divisions think their view of Jesus is the “correct” one, or the fact that I used to be one of these millions of divisions (Methodist, Baptist and Pentecostal in my protesting background).

I don’t know if I’m making any sense.

~~Jolie
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Two points:​

  1. Who is not getting what right ? After all, there are points of agreements between Catholics & Lutherans: if one bothers to emphasise them, that is. They could say exactly the same about us, with equal justice.
  2. Why be surpised that (some) Lutherans “reject and condemn” certain points of Catholic doctrine ? That is no more than the CC has done to Lutherans, so we can hardly complain if others do to us, as we have done to them. Catholics are often insulting about what Lutherans believe and respect - the only way to get out of this vicious circle, is to leave off belittling others, and to behave in a more gracious manner instead; but that’s not going to happen.
  3. We have our “view” too - it may be self-evidently true to us, but it is not self-evidently true to anyone who’s not Catholic. A little humility on all sides, and a readiness to learn from others, would surely not be out of place. But if Christians can’t be civil* to other Christians - * we might as well give up all our fine words :(, for talk is very cheap. ##
 
Holy Cross Catholic Church in nearby West Fargo is in the same building as the Lutheran Church of the Cross (ELCA, I believe). They each have their own sanctuaries but share a social hall, nursery, etc. It’s kind of a neat arrangement.

holycrosscatholicchurch.com/

One of the things that caused me to turn away from the ELCA was the fact that their employee insurance plan (offered to, among others, their pastors) covers abortion.

One thing the Wisconsin and Missouri Lutheran Synods share with the Catholic Church is the distrust against Freemasons. When I was a Rainbow Girl (way back when I was also Lutheran), we went to a Bible Camp to do a service project. There was a WSLC retreat being held there at the time, and the little old ladies attending gave us a wide berth. We were as nice and polite to them as possible, and we heard a few of them whispering later that they couldn’t believe that “people like us” could be so nice. :rolleyes:
 
Just because a “god” is popular…(by the way Buddha isn’t a god, he was a guy who taught philosophy)…does not mean “he/she” exists.

Here’s a good picture painted by a Catholic.com article.

God is on top of a mountain and humans are constantly trying to reach Him through religion and all these different religions are different roads. There’s one problem. There is one road which was not paved by man…Christianity. No other religion can honestly state that God paved their religion to them.

Also some religions defile God, such as satanism. Some people go to other religion churches and defile them. They worship devils and hate God.

What would God want? He wants you to follow the Full Truth. Would God just let His people wander without leading them in a somewhat concrete manner(how about physically teaching on earth…God the Son)? Why would God simply leave it up to His people to find Him? We need divine revelation and the only fullness of this comes through Christianity(I won’t go too much into Catholicism).
 
Eileen_T said:
What gets me is how you have a church that allows another denomination to use it’s building for services. They see nothing wrong with it, one church is as good as another etc…
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I understand your point here and I do agree with what you’re saying. However, at this point in time, I have to say, “Thank God for our Lutheran Church!”

Our entire parish, which had been established for more than 100 years, was completely destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. Our parish complex sat right on the scenic highway on the Gulf of Mexico in Long Beach, MS (next door to Gulfport). There was the church, rectory, parish life center, elementary school and gym. It was such a beautiful place (lots of old oaks, flowers and a little “river” that ran through the property) and full of much love for Christ and each other. We had just finished adding on our Parish Life Center (a 2 milllion dollar fundraising project!). It wasn’t quite 2 years old and was just a perfect place for all kinds of events, classes, Life Teen, etc. that we had so often - and - one day, it was just gone! Everything, gone!

We had our first Catholic Mass (which many of our non-catholic brothers and sisters attended) was maybe about 2 weeks after Katrina, on the school grounds of one of our elementary schools. It was very emotional and the first time alot of people got to see family and friends after the storm. It would be the first time they would know if someone had made it through the storm.

A couple of weeks later, the Lutheran church in town offered the use of their church to us for our Masses. It was only one or two Masses for Sat and Sun but it was a place to worship. I would much prefer a Lutheran church to school gym or other kind of building like alot of the churches are still using to this day. At least we were in a church - with an altar!

I have to admit, it did feel a bit strange. It was so much smaller than we were used to. We were crammed in there like sardines. Needless to say our parish is at least twice the size of the Lutheran community and we all wanted to worship together, so we all squished in!

About a month later, the SeeBees (Naval Construction Battalion) converted the old skating rink in town that the KC’s bought and sold to our parish for $1.00 into a church, 12 classrooms and parish offices for us to use. \We now have our own place, it’s not very condusive to prayer or “holiness” like other churches and it’s difficult to remember that you’re in a church sometimes (especially when we use the church part of the building for other stuff, too), but, it our’s and it where we worship together and that’s what matters.

So, thank you for the Lutherans! They gave us refuge!

Oh - and we are on the way to building our new facility - hopefully by 2008!

Sorry - this was off topic!
 
So here’s the thing: certain Lutheran churches believe one thing; other Lutheran churches believe another. Then on our way home, I was inordinately aware of every church we passed–Grace Lutheran, Evangelical Lutheran, St. Stephen Lutheran. . . Free Baptist, First Baptist. . . Wesley Methodist, United Methodist, Allbright Methodist. . . Church of Christ, Evangelical Church of Christ, United Church of Christ. . . Assemblies of God, Foursquare Gospel. . . Covenant Evangelical, Christ the Lord Evangelical, Community Bible Evangelical. . . United Presbyterian, Trinity Presbyterian. . . I could go on and on and on.
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And it just angered me–angers me still. It’s like, for goodness’ sake, can’t they get anything RIGHT?? I don’t know what was more upsetting to me, the fact that my Catholicism is so blatantly “rejected and condemned”, the fact that all these millions of divisions think their view of Jesus is the “correct” one, or the fact that I used to be one of these millions of divisions (Methodist, Baptist and Pentecostal in my protesting background).
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I don’t know if I’m making any sense.
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~~Jolie
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I’ve heard this before. It seems that there are a lot of Catholics that believe that somehow, since there are many denominations of Christian churches, that the Catholic Church is the only one that’s “got it together” because they believe that their church is solid, without division, and the one truth church. Here’s the truth.

The Catholic Church is divided ever bit as much if not more. Which Catholic denomination do you belong to?

Ultratraditionalist Catholics
Ultratraditionalist Catholics consider themselves nonrevisionist Catholics. They are extremely critical of the changes brought about by Vatican II and wish the church would return to its earlier course.

Traditionalist Catholics
The traditionalist Catholics in many ways make up the backbone of the church hierarchy. A Christianity Today editorial described the group this way: “This important segment of the church, specially powerful among the laity of the national churches, the older clergy, and the bishops and upper level of the hierarchy, adheres to the whole of creedal Roman Catholicism and obedience to the church as interpreted by the pope.”

Liberal Catholics
Liberal Catholics have substantially departed from traditional Catholicism, and one might say from traditional Christianity as a whole. While liberals differ among themselves in the degree to which they depart from classical Catholicism, like their Protestant counterparts they have conceded much to the rationalistic unbelief so prevalent in Western culture since the eighteenth-century Enlightenment period.

Charismatic/Evangelical Catholics
1992 marked the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Catholic charismatic renewal movement. Emerging from humble beginnings in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1967, the late 1960s and 1970s saw the Catholic charismatic renewal flourish in the church.

Cultural Catholics
The majority of Catholics in the world probably fit into the category of cultural Catholics. This group is unlike any other type we have considered above. Their identification as “Catholic” is simply more cultural and social than religious.

Popular Folk Catholics
Popular folk Catholics are found especially in Central and South America. These Catholics are very eclectic in their religious thinking and practice. They often combine elements of an animistic or nature-culture religion (the primitive religious beliefs that associate the forces of nature and culture with myriads of spirits) with a traditional medieval Catholicism. The result is a syncretistic nightmare.

Postmodern Catholics
Within the past decade, a rapidly growing number of burned-out, liberal and cultural Catholics have embraced the new and radical paradigm of Postmodernism…with a vengeance! In contrast to Modernism/Liberalism which views humans as “material machines”, postmodernism views humans primarily as social beings…“cogs” in a sociological machine.

This combined with the fact that you can actually attend one Catholic church and get a priest that runs his church one way, then walk six blocks down the street and get another church where the priest runs his church another way. In addition, the Carholic Church in the US is VERY different that the Church of Rome. They are nearly two different churches.

So the next time you get “angered”, realize that the “division” exists in your church too, it’s just presented in a different way.
 
You are very confused. Those who do not follow what the Magisterium teaches only call themselves Catholic. Those who go against the Magisterium are not Catholic.

EDIT:
There is only ONE Magisterium, only ONE true Catholic pope. There’s only ONE Truth.
 
A traditionalist or charismatic Catholic who accepts the Magisterium and nothing that contradicts it believes exactly the same as an orthodox Latin rite Catholic whose preferences are not traditionalistic or an eastern Catholic whose liturgy and practice are somewhat different. Some orthodox Catholics are Rosary-praying Catholics, others are Divine Mercy Chaplet-praying Catholics, others are both. Some have Sacred Heart devotions, others wear a scapular. Some practise each of these devotions, others practise other devotions. Some get closer to God in a traditional Mass, others in a charismatic prayer meeting, others through Scripture reading. They are all legitimately Catholic provided they accept the Catholic faith. There is only one orthodox Catholicity, but many practical forms thereof. Reading and knowing the Bible better than the average Protestant does not make a Catholic Protestant.

Ultratraditionalists who reject the Magisterium are schismatics and are just as Catholic as the Eastern Orthodox. Very, but not fully.

Liberal, cultural and postmodern Catholics are heretics like (with all due respect) the Protestants or may even be apostate like the agnostics. Folk Catholics, if they are indeed Catholics are heretics too.
 
junk said:
Ultratraditionalists who reject the Magisterium are schismatics and are just as Catholic as the Eastern Orthodox. Very, but not fully.
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I wouldn’t go so far as to say how much “Catholicity” a religion has. You are either Catholic or you aren’t. Those that do not have the Full Truth aren’t Catholic.
 
TheApologist said:
I wouldn’t go so far as to say how much “Catholicity” a religion has. You are either Catholic or you aren’t. Those that do not have the Full Truth aren’t Catholic.
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I see your point. They’re not Catholic, but they’re not far off belief-wise is what I meant. Liberal/Postmodern/Dissenting/Modernist/Cultural Catholics, on the other hand, are still Catholic insofar as they haven’t broken away and set up their own church like the schismatics. They have the Full Truth, but reject it, don’t know it or don’t care and are often very far off belief-wise.
 
I understood that you meant they weren’t too far off of Catholicism. Personally, those who reject Catholicism, but keep the name and stay in church and pretend to believe(this does not include the innocently ignorant)…I don’t call these people Catholic. Just because they want to be called Catholic, doesn’t mean they are. I think because these pseudo-Catholics are preaching their nonsense…many people will turn away from Catholicism because they don’t know that their local clergy aren’t correct.

I think there should be something like a three-warning system in the church, where when a priest or such starts preaching nonsense when he knows its against the church, he gets a warning. When he continues, another and so on. When he gets three warnings I think he should 1)be excommunicated(always a temporary thing) 2)be put under probation or 3) be taken out of the priesthood.

Sorry, this is probably off-topic.
 
TheApologist said:
I understood that you meant they weren’t too far off of Catholicism. Personally, those who reject Catholicism, but keep the name and stay in church and pretend to believe(this does not include the innocently ignorant)…I don’t call these people Catholic. Just because they want to be called Catholic, doesn’t mean they are. I think because these pseudo-Catholics are preaching their nonsense…many people will turn away from Catholicism because they don’t know that their local clergy aren’t correct.

I think there should be something like a three-warning system in the church, where when a priest or such starts preaching nonsense when he knows its against the church, he gets a warning. When he continues, another and so on. When he gets three warnings I think he should 1)be excommunicated(always a temporary thing) 2)be put under probation or 3) be taken out of the priesthood.

Sorry, this is probably off-topic.
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Bishops do discipline priests who are not following the Church. There already is a system in place. It is the Code of Canon Law.
 
lak611 said:
Bishops do discipline priests who are not following the Church. There already is a system in place. It is the Code of Canon Law.
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I do hope it’s strict enough. How is it that so many Catholic clergy and nuns can go to these types of conferences freely and still claim they are clergy and sisters?
 
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