This Passage in Daniel Seems to Predict Martin Luther (?)

[spauline]

The Protestant Rebellion was more likely the fifth trumpet of Revelation, like I’ve been saying for so long. The sixth Trumpet would be the enlightenment. The life that is tortured in the fifth and killed in the sixth is then seen as spiritual life.

Heretics lose five sacraments, five stages of spiritual torture. THe infidels of the Enlightenment killed a third of humanity supernaturally.

 

[distracted]

If someone thinks we’re calling their religious worship an abomination, and its proved from the bible, then they will simply whoop out the “Whore of Babylon” reference and leave in disgust.

i don’t feel i was calling it an abomination… If they take it that way, i am sorry… but depending on one’s unique perspective… (and everyone’s, of course, is different)… any number of “implications” can be “dredged up” out of any given statement… so wht can i say? If i were to wait until i could say everything perfectly and so as not to offend anyone, i would never say anything… Just what the devil wants… a useless focus on perfection (so called)… Chesterton said that anything worth doing is worth doing badly… (not that i feel i said anything badly but whatever…)…

 

[NotWorthy]

i don’t feel i was calling it an abomination… If they take it that way, i am sorry… but depending on one’s unique perspective… (and everyone’s, of course, is different)… any number of “implications” can be “dredged up” out of any given statement… so wht can i say? If i were to wait until i could say everything perfectly and so as not to offend anyone, i would never say anything… Just what the devil wants… a useless focus on perfection (so called)… Chesterton said that anything worth doing is worth doing badly… (not that i feel i said anything badly but whatever…)…

All right. So be it.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I was reading Daniel 11 last night… and it blew me away how the passage seemed to describe what happend to the Church when M. Luther began his attack on the Church… Have you read this? I don’t have it on me but can get it by tomorrow…

It speaks of the abolishing the “daily sacrifice”, etc…

Only because you know a bit about him People who say that passage refers to baddy Y, always interpret the passage acclording to their own knowledge: it seems never to occur to them that the passage (whichever it may be) may refer to someone yet to come. Or to someone long ago.​

In context, this verse doesn’t fit Luther at all; it can seem to, only if one rips it out of context, as though it were not part of a much longer passage; if we do that, we can make the Bible mean anything at all. Yet nobody would treat a newspaper like that, or a book - only the Biblical literature is treated as though any sentence from any chapter in any book can be usefully interpreted in isolation. That may work with crosswords or Scrabble, but not with books; not even with those in the Bible.

 

[distracted]

Gottle of Geer;3862796:

In context, this verse doesn’t fit Luther at all; it can seem to, only if one rips it out of context, .

It doesn’t really matter… the fact is the passage describes what happened not once in history but over and over… History repeats itself… mostly since there are so many hard-headed human beings… who never learn from it…

 

[NotWorthy]

  			Originally Posted by **Gottle of Geer** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3862796#post3862796) 				
  		*In context, this verse doesn't fit Luther at all; it can seem to, only if one rips it out of context, .*

It doesn’t really matter… the fact is the passage describes what happened not once in history but over and over… History repeats itself… mostly since there are so many hard-headed human beings… who never learn from it…

Exactly!

Which is why it may be biased to point this prophecy at Martin Luther.

 

[distracted]

NotWorthy:
Exactly!

Which is why it may be biased to point this prophecy at Martin Luther.

If the shoe of apostacy and blashphemy fits, i’m going to make him wear it…

 

[spauline]

If the shoe of apostacy and blashphemy fits, i’m going to make him wear it…

But seriously, Luther is not utterly antichrist.
Christ is still God for Luther. Luther seeks to follow Scripture, if only in scandalized anger.

Daniel is OT Prophecy, I don’t think we are to expect Daniel to deal with weightier matters of the NT Cov. Luther is heresy, not apostasy in the fullest sense.

The distinctions between rifts in the Body of Christ do not even exist in the OT, because Christ hasn’t come yet!

Let us not give into sensationalism.

On the other hand, the Book of Revelation could indeed treat of heresy. Note, then, that Father Kramer of 1934 wrote a book called, The Book of Destiny, and conjectures the fifth trumpet was the Protestant Rebellion. That is more on key.

I’m not saying, buy into all his conjectures, but that is much more sensible to see in the NT apoc than in the OT apoc, which doesn’t have the basis for a deeper analysis of eccleisiology that doesn’t even exist then yet.

 

[distracted]

But seriously, Luther is not utterly antichrist.
Christ is still God for Luther.

true… I’m glad you reminded me of that… for some reason, i w asn’t thinking about that when i posted… :whacky:

Still, i was not “giving in to sensationalism”… I opened the bible randomly and started reading… (well, actually i had been looking for something and just ended up at taht passage)… Anyway, i can’t help what crossed my mind as i read it… Why assume trying to sensationalize???

On the other hand, the Book of Revelation could indeed treat of heresy. Note, then, that Father Kramer of 1934 wrote a book called, The Book of Destiny, and conjectures the fifth trumpet was the Protestant Rebellion. That is more on key.

hmmm… sounds like something i ought to read…

 

[distracted]

i think some of the posters here are under-estimating / under-representing (whether intentionally or otherwise) the damage done by M. Luther to Christianity.

OK, so he was not totally apostate… He was apostate in a sense because he abandoned and attacked the ONLY Christian Church in existence at that time… Nowadays, it is understandable that people atttack the Church… They see all those different denominations and think that the RCC is just “another one”… they have something to compare it to… (or so they think)…

But what was M. Luther’s excuse???

 

[spauline]

i think some of the posters here are under-estimating / under-representing (whether intentionally or otherwise) the damage done by M. Luther to Christianity.

OK, so he was not totally apostate… He was apostate in a sense because he abandoned and attacked the ONLY Christian Church in existence at that time… Nowadays, it is understandable that people atttack the Church… They see all those different denominations and think that the RCC is just “another one”… they have something to compare it to… (or so they think)…

But what was M. Luther’s excuse???

hey, man, I am NOT underestimating the damage done, in fact, I think that Divine Revelation DOES deal with the Protestant Rebellion, and that in ANY Salvation history, a great heretical rebelllion would come.

What I’m contesting is WHERE Scripture deals with it. particularly, Daniel doesn’t have anything to do with it. Daniel’s prophecies of the Church age only extend to the defeat of pagan Rome, at least in general.

It is most like the NT Apoc, specifically, the fifth trumpet, that deal with Protestantism.

 

[distracted]

What I’m contesting is WHERE Scripture deals with it. particularly, Daniel doesn’t have anything to do with it. Daniel’s prophecies of the Church age only extend to the defeat of pagan Rome, at least in general.

.

i never said that Daniel had “anything to do with it”… all i meant to say was that when i read tht passage, it reminded me of M. Luther… and all that he did to the Church… and, as stated in another post, it doesn’t really matter whether or not it applies, specificually, to Luther… The passage applies in a GENERAL sense… meaning that these kinds of things happen throughout history… and again i say: If the shoe fits, i am going to make Lurther wear it…