This question is for Protestants only. What do you have against Mary?

[iloveangels]

…Pray for better understanding.

Or better running shoes.

All kidding aside, fastenatingguy, your post is a very good balanced one. The problem is that a lot of people don’t do the study to find out exactly how this is supposed to be viewed in the Christian Catholic faith. You’re right about that.

 

[fastenatingguy]

Or better running shoes.

All kidding aside, fastenatingguy, your post is a very good balanced one. The problem is that a lot of people don’t do the study to find out exactly how this is supposed to be viewed in the Christian Catholic faith. You’re right about that.

Or better running shoes.


I had a similar misunderstanding of my own mother, God rest her soul. She would always ask
“did you pray to Mary?” which I had not. My approach was always to God. If she had only used the phrase “to God,* through* Mary” or described the unique nature of mother and (Divine) Son" it would have gotten through my thick skull.

 

[GEddie]

I beg to differ. Some people do believe that.

The “passionately and fervently” part is the problem when it comes to running over everyone else in the room. It gets completely out of hand. If I go somewhere Catholic, and this obsession over Mary starts up, I leave.

And anonymously accosting Protestants over it? That’s just out of bounds. What did they do to you?

Because there are some Protestants, in particular the “nondenominational” sector and fringe names like Jack Chick, who have a propensity to go nonconcentric over it.

I am Catholic and have been a Protestant, so can speak both.

ICXC NIKA

 

[iloveangels]

Because there are some Protestants, in particular the “nondenominational” sector and fringe names like Jack Chick, who have a propensity to go nonconcentric over it.

I am Catholic and have been a Protestant, so can speak both.

ICXC NIKA

Yes, well, there’s always two extremes to any question. There are off-kilter views on both sides, Protestant and Catholic. This ultra-mega-Marian thing is one of our off-kilter areas. Thankfully most people in both traditions are not the Jack Chick or the ultra-mega-Mary types.

I’ve been both Protestant and Catholic too.

 

[Lochias]

BECAUSE too many people have been steam-rolled by the Blue Army or one of its modern day affiliates, that’s why.

Can you describe this “steamrolling”, please?

I used to be a fundamentalist protestant. They are appreciative of Mary, but you do not see the wild excesses over Mary there that you sometimes see in the Catholic church.

Protestants are not as wary of paganism as they used to be, but some Catholics are not wary of it at all.

Some Catholics haven’t been taught very well, yes, but those of us with a healthy devotion to Mary would never even put “pagan” into the picture. Statements like this are offensive.

She’s not God at all. She’s not a co-redemptor. She’s not a divine being. She’s not the 4th person of the Trinity.

There are a lot of people in the Catholic Church that need basic lessons in what Christianity consists of.

Don’t think I’ve ever heard any practicing Catholic with a healthy devotion to Mary as referring to her as any of those things…I’d say that’s your Protestant roots talking.

 

[GEddie]

Yes, well, there’s always two extremes to any question. There are off-kilter views on both sides, Protestant and Catholic. This ultra-mega-Marian thing is one of our off-kilter areas. Thankfully most people in both traditions are not the Jack Chick or the ultra-mega-Mary types.

I’ve been both Protestant and Catholic too.

Concur. There are many, many nonconcentric Catholic Marians; a lot of them in my geographic area. This pattern fuelled my college faith crisis.

And maybe 300 miles from here, you have the anti-Marian counter pattern.

Why doesn’t it just balance out???

ICXC NIKA

 

[iloveangels]

Concur. There are many, many nonconcentric Catholic Marians; a lot of them in my geographic area. This pattern fuelled my college faith crisis.

And maybe 300 miles from here, you have the anti-Marian counter pattern.

Why doesn’t it just balance out???

ICXC NIKA

Well, it would if you could put them through a blender, but you can’t do that.
That’s not how it works. All kidding aside, people do have the right to their opinions and practices. The problem comes in when they try to make other people have the same devotions as they do. Because everyone must be exactly like them, dontcha know.

 

[iloveangels]

…I’d say that’s your Protestant roots talking.

I’d say that was prejudice against converts.

You’d better do a saint check and figure out how many of your great figures are converts. We’re not all saints–most of us aren’t–but we aren’t inferior either. And we usually actually do know some scripture.

 

[WeakSinner]

I’d say that was prejudice against converts.

You’d better do a saint check and figure out how many of your great figures are converts. We’re not all saints–most of us aren’t–but we aren’t inferior either. And we usually actually do know some scripture.

I am a revert (baptized Catholic - non denom - Baptist - Catholic… I was confused in my younger years haha).

**It was not a prejudicial statement against converts. It was a valid point, which you did not address. Instead, you took his words out of context and got off on a tangent. Please respond to the points he brought up and back up your statements.
**

Protestants do very much promote the idea that Catholics worship Mary as divine. I run into this all the time.

2 main things protestants fall back on:

1. Catholics worship marry (false)
2. There is no mediator between them and God (true). They do not take the time to understand the purpose of the Sacrament of Confession or apostolic succession.
   If they did, they would be arguing against that instead of making blanket statements like “there is no mediator between me and God.”

 

[JonNC]

This is a very serious question, and not meant to be an attack in any way. Catholics can engage in this forum if they wish, but they won’t be able to help me with my question, because I want to hear from Protestants.

First of all, the asking of this question comes from my constant fellowship with my Protestant brothers and sisters. I am a Catholic, but I consider both Catholics and Protestants to be Christian. My question, though, stems from the somewhat hostile feelings Protestants have regarding the Virgin Mary. Many of my Protestant brothers and sisters will come to me for spiritual advice and bible reflection, and often I will post bible verses or pictures of Jesus on facebook. I have many pictures of Jesus in my arsenal of inspirational pictures, but I also have a few pictures of Mary that I enjoy looking at and will sometimes post. In response to posts/pictures of Jesus, they respond with things like “Hallelujah!” and “Amen!” but when a picture of Mary is shown, it is met with only scorns and cries of idolatry.

I’ll be honest, this greatly saddens and confuses me. When I see a picture of Mary, I say to myself “Behold, the beloved Mother of Christ Himself. How happy am I to see a picture of my dear Savior’s mother.” When seeing these pictures of Mary, my Protestant friends seemed to be filled with feelings that are almost exactly opposite. They often respond with words such as “Idolatry!” and “You worship Mary!” and other hostile remarks about Catholics or the Virgin herself. I’m sorry, but I don’t see the reasoning behind this. Keep in mind, my Protestant brethren who are kindly taking the time to read this, that I know not all Protestants are like this. But when my friends and followers who are Protestant see pictures of Mary, instead of filling them with love for Our Lord, it seemingly fills them with hatred of Catholics and resentment.

It saddens me; I don’t understand why this hatred comes out like this. I know what idolatry is, and I try to explain to them that I’m not in any way in my own mind raising Mary above God by looking joyfully at a few pictures of her. I explain to them that when I see a picture of Mary, I say to myself what I already stated as above. I do not say to myself “Behold, the Virgin Mary who is Divine and Greater than Our Lord Jesus Christ and ought to be worshipped as God!”

Yet still, even after I explain this, some of my Protestant brethren (not all of them, however) will claim that loving Mary is not loving Jesus, and that honoring her is against scripture. How saddening and confusing this is! Jesus Himself said that we are to “Love one another”, but somehow, according to them, this excludes the Virgin Mary, who was God’s most faithful and blessed servant. If someone loves Mary, do they not also love Jesus? If someone loves Jesus, should they not also love Mary? Anyone who loves Jesus obeys His commandments (John 14:21). Let’s apply this to Blessed Mary. If somebody loves Mary, they will obey her commandments also, correct? What are Mary’s commandments? “Do whatever he tells you” (John 2:5). So whoever loves Mary must also love Jesus.

So my question is, if there are Protestants here who feel this way that Mary ought to not be shown any love or honor whatsoever, and that seeing pictures of her only ignites resentment of Catholics, why do you feel this way? Keep in mind, my Protestant brethren, that I know full well that this does not apply to all of you. My best friend, and perhaps the most righteous and holy person I have ever known, was my grandfather, who was Lutheran. Unfortunately we never got to talk about Mary before his death, but I’m sure that the mention of Mary the beloved servant did not induce any hatred or resentment in him. This is not in any way an attack on all Protestants, only a question out of confusion for the ones who are seemingly, at least in my experiences, hostile towards the Virgin Mary. Oh, and by the way, I fully understand the desire by Protestants, or even instead of desire, the fear, to not raise Mary to a level above God, what I don’t understand is the apparent hatred that she instills in some, and the almost defiant refusal to show her any love or honor whatsoever, which in my opinion is very offensive to God.

Thank you, and God Bless

I won’t go into each point. Instead I will say this. The Blessed Virgin is the Holy Theotokos, the God Bearer, the Mother of God, of whom the angel said was, "full of grace/highly favored, That the Lord was with her.

I give thanks to God for her, the role she played in God’s plan of salvation, and the example she sets for all Christians.

Jon

 

[Marc_Anthony]

She’s not God at all. She’s not a co-redemptor. She’s not a divine being. She’s not the 4th person of the Trinity.

There are a lot of people in the Catholic Church that need basic lessons in what Christianity consists of.

I have never, once, met anybody, Catholic or otherwise, who EVER equated Mary with God, or made her out to be a divine being.

Co-Redemptrix is a term, I’m uncomfortable with, but from my understanding it is not actually heretical, and it does not put Mary on the level of God regarding the redemption of mankind.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

I’d say that was prejudice against converts.

I think it’s pretty fair-having been part of a faith that did not place emphasis on devotion to Mary, it would make sense that you were uncomfortable with it.

You’d better do a saint check and figure out how many of your great figures are converts. We’re not all saints–most of us aren’t–but we aren’t inferior either. And we usually actually do know some scripture.

You’re defending against things nobody accused you of.

 

[iloveangels]

I think it’s pretty fair-having been part of a faith that did not place emphasis on devotion to Mary, it would make sense that you were uncomfortable with it.

You’re defending against things nobody accused you of.

Whatever. Had enough of this. It’s knee deep in here. Bye.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Whatever. Had enough of this. It’s knee deep in here. Bye.

Okay. Good bye. Sorry if I said something offensive.

 

[stevekehl]

Protestants don’t have any animosity toward Mary. I’m sure she was a remarkable woman, I can’t wait to meet her some day. What Protestants object to is statements like this,

…If she had only used the phrase “to God,* through* Mary” …

since there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ.(1 Timothy 2:5)
And we are to pray to God in the name of Jesus (John14:14, 15:16)
And then statements like this.

Co-Redemptrix is a term, I’m uncomfortable with, but from my understanding it is not actually heretical, and it does not put Mary on the level of God regarding the redemption of mankind.

Co- means along with, like co-pilot or co-defendant. The term does put Mary on the level with Jesus, who died for our redemption. On top of that is the previously mentioned over-the-top veneration of Mary. So I would say that few Protestants have anything against Mary, but feel the CC elevates her inappropriately.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

If Mary isn’t sinless then that means that every human other than Jesus fell to sin.

Does it make sense that all of humanity–which God in His creation said was good–that they ALL fell to sin and the devil?

Did God only make junk? Was His creation that weak? Or was the devil that strong?

Sinless Mary shows what God can do.

Non sinless Mary shows what the devil can do.

Which one do you most believe in?

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Co- means along with, like co-pilot or co-defendant. The term does put Mary on the level with Jesus, who died for our redemption. On top of that is the previously mentioned over-the-top veneration of Mary. So I would say that few Protestants have anything against Mary, but feel the CC elevates her inappropriately.

I understand what you’re saying, but when Catholics use the term Co-Redemptrix, that isn’t what they mean, so please don’t say that. I dislike the term because in modern usage you’re right-that is what “co” means. But when Catholics use Co-Redemptrix we don’t make Mary equal to Jesus in redemption.

 

[bzkoss236]

Protestants don’t have any animosity toward Mary. I’m sure she was a remarkable woman, I can’t wait to meet her some day. What Protestants object to is statements like this,
…
since there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ.(1 Timothy 2:5)
And we are to pray to God in the name of Jesus (John14:14, 15:16)

You are correct, anything that goes through Mary must then go through Jesus, who IS God. So the saying isn’t incorrect. If you pray directly to God, you are also praying to and through Jesus. If I ask you to pray for me, that in turn is its own prayer, a prayer through you to God.

And then statements like this.
…
Co- means along with, like co-pilot or co-defendant. The term does put Mary on the level with Jesus, who died for our redemption. On top of that is the previously mentioned over-the-top veneration of Mary. So I would say that few Protestants have anything against Mary, but feel the CC elevates her inappropriately.

Co-pilot isn’t on equal level as a pilot in regards to flying the plane. A pilot has all the responsibility, and co-pilot shares in some of the responsibility when necessary, but not all. The co-pilot’s job is to assist the pilot with whatever the pilot requires of him. The “co-” does mean along with, but along with doesn’t mean equal. The same goes for a co-defendant.

 

[Kal2012]

Keep in mind that I explicitly state that many Protestants I know, this does not apply to. But to the fundamentalists, there is no exaggeration in the post of how they react

Yes - I know the type of which you speak. I know it’s hard for others to understand because it’s such a weird concept that people can be so passionately Anti-Marian.

I find that the people who believe this way are older, tend to have very traditional views of family and really buy into the mythology given against the Catholic church. They love “that old-time” religion and there’s really nothing you can say or do to change their minds. (Yes, I’ve encountered a lot of people like this)

A lot of this kind of stuff has been marginalized. I really don’t know anyone in the under 45 crowd that would ever say anything like that.

I’ve always just had a problem with ignorant people. So, I’ve never had the desire to ask “Why?” I really just don’t want to know the source of someone’s complete and total ignorance.

A lot of people are very uneducated - or under-educated - about Mary.

Protestants simply don’t believe that Saints can intercede for people on Earth. People on Earth can intercede, but the idea that Saints in the heavens can do that is just bizarre at best. That’s why when Catholics talk about praying to Mary - it’s weird. It sounds to Protestant ears like you are praying to Mary in the same way you’d pray to Jesus or the Father. The idea that she can intercede is just insane to Protestants.

As I said, I can only speak to my experiences. I’m currently going through RCIA because I believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church. A lot of that has to do with the fact that the Church doesn’t dumb down the role of Mary and the role women in the church. (Contrary to what a lot of people think).

However, I’ve had to overcome a lot of my own biases based in that “old-time religion” world to get to the point where I can accept the concept of praying to Mary (which is actually a real comfort as a mom) and the idea that the other Saints can intervene for us here on Earth.

I’m still working through some of my objections simply because it’s hard to discard years and years of false belief. Still, now that I understand the concept better, it’s not so hard to understand to make the leap that the Saints can intercede for you - even if it is hard to shed the “this is why we are different than Catholics” attitude.

I understand why you wonder why people are so ignorant, but in my experience, it isn’t really worth it to know how they reach their conclusions.

 

[Brony4life]

^^This, exactly.

I was raised Protestant, and never had anything at all “against” Mother Mary or Catholics or Catholicism in general. Still don’t.

Any woman who gives birth in a barn with no painkillers is my hero! And although that statement is rather “light-hearted,” I do mean it seriously. I think almost every Christian respects Mother Mary as the Mother of our Lord, but thinking of her as a actual person with real-life hardships makes her more “real” to me.

Jala

I’m not sure where your other comment went. But in a summary, yes- he/she did give me a nice response that was easy to understand, and I thank him/her for that. I have tried to be as respectful as possible, and I certainly had no intention of coming down with a “Marian hammer” on that person, rest assured.