This seems to be a dichotomy...please help

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Asker20

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Hi everybody–

This is a concept of Jesus I have been struggling with–when we read the Gospels we see that Jesus was forgiving and he loved the sinners and he condemned the Pharisees for casting out the sinners. But we are supposed to believe that when we get to the judgment day that Jesus will condemn us for our sins and not forgive us. What is up with that?? He taught forgiveness, so why won’t He forgive us when we are judged? I’m not talking about the atheists who rejected Him–but why wouldn’t He forgive somebody who masturbated, got drunk, had pre-marital sex, etc? Wouldn’t He be as bad as the Pharisees if he basically stoned us instead of forgiving us?? He forgave us while He was on Earth so why wouldn’t He forgive us on judgment day??

Your opinions are appreciated…

Thanks
 
You make many choices in your life on Earth- some of these choices have an element of “good vs. evil” to them. And the sum of all those choices, a “meta-choice” if you will, determines whether or not you have embraced God or not. Jesus was clear that we have the right to reject Him- when the rich man walked away, did Jesus have his disciples kidnap him? “Forcing” you to be with God when you have meta-chosen to reject him would be a violation of that right.
 
Asker20 said:
Hi everybody–

This is a concept of Jesus I have been struggling with–when we read the Gospels we see that Jesus was forgiving and he loved the sinners and he condemned the Pharisees for casting out the sinners. But we are supposed to believe that when we get to the judgment day that Jesus will condemn us for our sins and not forgive us. What is up with that?? He taught forgiveness, so why won’t He forgive us when we are judged? I’m not talking about the atheists who rejected Him–but why wouldn’t He forgive somebody who masturbated, got drunk, had pre-marital sex, etc? Wouldn’t He be as bad as the Pharisees if he basically stoned us instead of forgiving us?? He forgave us while He was on Earth so why wouldn’t He forgive us on judgment day??

Your opinions are appreciated…

Thanks
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The pharisees sinned, Jesus didn’t. Jesus already died for us and gave us all we need to find him. He will forgive ASAP but we need to be open to that forgiveness. He wants to forgive everyone but if we reject him we reject his forgiveness. When we sin we reject him, we can then repent, but we have to actually repent and be sorry for what we did. Jesus knows were are human and fall, he is waiting for us to ask him to help out.
 
If I masturbate, it is because I am weak and have teenage hormones, not because I do not love Jesus. But I am led to believe if I masturbate and die tonight, I will go to hell because I committed “mortal” sin. But I love Jesus, so why can’t I be with Him when I die? Just because I am a weak teenager? Jesus was against the Pharisees condemning people, so why would he condemn me? In the Bible, he seemed to be the forgiving type, not the condemning type.
 
You aren’t forgiven by God without repentance… at the end of your life, you’ve made your decisions… if you haven’t repented, then Justice kicks in finally and completely.

God commands us to forgive people before they’ve repented – He reserves the forgiveness only -after- repentance for Himself. The reason it works this way is that He is God and we are sinners. 🙂

Imagine a giant set of scales. . . Every sin against God weighs them down, and has to be compensated for. It is either compensated for by Christ’s sacrifice, or if we reject Him, it is compensated for by us paying the price of Just punishment… eternally, as we are eternally sinners at that point.

Instead of being attracted by lust, you should view it as a cliff leading down to torture and agony eternally. You will become less attracted to it swiftly if you think of it and feel about it properly. 🙂 Replacing vices with virtuous habits is also quite necessary, so find something spiritual to make it up to God for that you also enjoy.
 
You’re painting me into a corner, Shin. I’ll say it again, Jesus forgave people who were sorry. If I die after masturbating, why would God send me to hell? I try to be a good guy and I love Jesus–I go to Mass every week. I’d like to think He is a forgiving guy and not a Pharisee like those He condemned.
 
Asker20 said:
If I masturbate, it is because I am weak and have teenage hormones, not because I do not love Jesus. But I am led to believe if I masturbate and die tonight, I will go to hell because I committed “mortal” sin. But I love Jesus, so why can’t I be with Him when I die? Just because I am a weak teenager? Jesus was against the Pharisees condemning people, so why would he condemn me? In the Bible, he seemed to be the forgiving type, not the condemning type.
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God is just. But God also is love. God gave us himself as man because in his justice man had to pay the ultimate price for sin, death. So Jesus dies. Now because of that death we human have a chance to get to heaven. God gave us our crosses but he also gave us support along the way. If you sin and are truely sorry but die before confession is possible God will recognize this. But you must be fully intent on making a good confession. you can’t go around sinning either think “oh I’ll just confess this later.” We are supposed to try and grow in faith. Pray for self control and look for support in your parish priest or family or trusted friend. It is important you utilize the ppl God has given us, b/c he knows how hard it is and gave you everything you need to surpass your troubles. Many great saints started off in great sin but they were able to trust in God’s help and get out of it. It is selfish to think you have to rely on ur own free will to surpass temptation. You need God’s help and he just waiting for you to ask
 
Asker20 said:
Hi everybody–

This is a concept of Jesus I have been struggling with–when we read the Gospels we see that Jesus was forgiving and he loved the sinners and he condemned the Pharisees for casting out the sinners. But we are supposed to believe that when we get to the judgment day that Jesus will condemn us for our sins and not forgive us. What is up with that?? He taught forgiveness, so why won’t He forgive us when we are judged? I’m not talking about the atheists who rejected Him–but why wouldn’t He forgive somebody who masturbated, got drunk, had pre-marital sex, etc? Wouldn’t He be as bad as the Pharisees if he basically stoned us instead of forgiving us?? He forgave us while He was on Earth so why wouldn’t He forgive us on judgment day??

Your opinions are appreciated…

Thanks
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Jesus didn’t just forgive every sinner he came upon. Take for example, the rich man who asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life (see Mark 10:17-22). Jesus didn’t just say “Don’t worry, I got you covered.” Jesus set a condition for he rich man, and that was to give everything he had to the poor.

Jesus forgave those who were truly repentant. He knew who was and who wasn’t.
 
Are you saying I’m not repentant? I love Jesus and feel that I’m not worthy of His love. But I would like to think that Jesus forgives me for being human and having human weaknesses. I cannot stress enough that I love Jesus and try to be a good Christian. Don’t say that I am un-repentant and I’m asking for a free ride…
 
Asker20 said:
You’re painting me into a corner, Shin. I’ll say it again, Jesus forgave people who were sorry. If I die after masturbating, why would God send me to hell? I try to be a good guy and I love Jesus–I go to Mass every week. I’d like to think He is a forgiving guy and not a Pharisee like those He condemned.
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He Himself said fornicators do not go to Heaven. Period.

Old chap, I sympathize with you. I really do. I know how tough addictions are. You have to want to beat it, and you have to be more than just sorry, you have be scared and you have to hate the sin. You can trust God, He loves you, He wants you out of it. But if you love it more than you love Him, you’re in deep trouble. It’s a mortal sin.

I am not going to say you can get to Heaven doing it, because He did’nt say you could.

Sometimes addiction may make mortal sins venial. But it’s still mortal matter, and you’ve got to stop. Now.

If Hell doesn’t help you, then think about how you are crucifying Him every time you commit these sins. He is bearing the penalty for these sins to save your soul. And as you can see… it’s a very very painful penalty.

Because God is good, innocent, pure and beautiful and He doesn’t deserve this. And neither do you, you weren’t meant for it at all. But something far better and more beautiful. 🙂
 
Asker20 said:
Are you saying I’m not repentant? I love Jesus and feel that I’m not worthy of His love. But I would like to think that Jesus forgives me for being human and having human weaknesses. I cannot stress enough that I love Jesus and try to be a good Christian. Don’t say that I am un-repentant and I’m asking for a free ride…
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I dont think they were saying ur unrepentant. We don’t know you. But as advice I suggest that whenever you do fall into sin go to confession. Be sure that you are not receiving communion before confession b/c that just adds up the mortal sins. If you go to confession God will give you the graces needed to overcome your short fallings. He doesn’t want you to fail.
 
Shin, you are a Pharisee who is condemning me. Keep your damn opinions to yourself. You are a sinner too just as I am. You have no right to say I am not going to heaven. I’m shocked you would post such a thing.
 
My dear fellow, you don’t want to face it, so I don’t think I can say much more to you.

But I will leave you with some food for thought. You have you admit you’re a sinner. Then you can come to God and abandon yourself to Him to gain repentence and the graces to maintain it. If you truly love God, then you must hate sin. 🙂 And then you will feel the gentle love of His forgiveness. Even now He awaits. But you must not make Him wait until it is too late.

Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

“Food for the stomach and the stomach for food,” but God will do away with both the one and the other. The body, however, is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body;

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

For you have been purchased at a price. Therefore, glorify God in your body.

1 Corinthians 6

‘The Virgin Mother, all pure and all white, will make her servants pure and white.’

‘If you would keep yourself pure, shun dangerous occasions. Do not trust your own strength. In this matter we can not take too much precaution.’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

‘That we may understand how horrible and detestable is this sin, which the demons make us commit, but which they do not commit themselves, we must consider what a Christian is. . . A Christian, created in the image of God, redeemed by the Blood of a God! . . . We are created to reign one day in heaven, and if we have the misfortune to commit this sin, we become the den of the devils. Our Lord said nothing impure should enter into His kingdom. Indeed, how could a soul that has rolled itself in this filth go to appear before so pure and so holy a God? We are all like little mirrors, in which God contemplates Himself. How can you expect that God should recognise His likeness in an impure soul?’

‘As I have often told you, there is nothing so vile as the impure soul. There was once a saint who had asked the good God to show him one; and he saw the poor soul like a dead beast that has been dragged through the streets in the hot sun for a week.’

'Purity comes from Heaven; we must ask for it from God. If we ask for it, we shall obtain it. We must take great care not to lose it. We must shut our heart against pride, against sensuality, and all the other passions, as one shuts the doors and windows that nobody may be able to get in. What joy is it to the guardian angel to conduct a pure soul! My children, when a soul is pure, all Heaven looks upon it with love! Pure souls will form the circle round Our Lord. The more pure we have been on earth, the nearer we shall be to Him in Heaven. When the heart is pure, it cannot help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God. “Happy,” says Our Lord, "are the pure in heart, because they shall see God!

My children, we cannot comprehend the power that a pure soul has over the good God. It is not he who does the will of God, it is God who does his will.’

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars
 
Asker20 said:
Shin, you are a Pharisee who is condemning me. Keep your damn opinions to yourself. You are a sinner too just as I am. You have no right to say I am not going to heaven. I’m shocked you would post such a thing.
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Shin never said u weren’t, he said he wasn’t going to tell you that you are. He can’t read your soul and isn’t claiming to. He just said what Jesus/the church teaches. He did not judge you, it would be best not to judge him. Only Jesus can judge what is on one’s soul.

I understand its a painful situation but I also believe that others want to help, Jesus did not overlook short comings in others, he told them how to surpass them. We are to be Christ-like and sometimes the truth might seem to hurt, but in the end, if accepted, it saves.

Look critically at yourself. Ur not perfect. I’m not perfect. Shins not perfect. We know. We all have our own struggles, addiction, sins to overcome and we should try to deal respectfully with those who try to help, as hard as it might be.

I’d pray to PAdre Pio. Jesus gave him the gift of reading souls. Jesus gave Padre Pio as a gift to his community. Ask Jesus to show you the bare state of your heart and pray that you might see this and know that through Jesus it will be repaired.

God Bless
 
1catholic said:
Shin never said u weren’t, he said he wasn’t going to tell you that you are. He can’t read your soul and isn’t claiming to. He just said what Jesus/the church teaches. He did not judge you, it would be best not to judge him. Only Jesus can judge what is on one’s soul.

I understand its a painful situation but I also believe that others want to help, Jesus did not overlook short comings in others, he told them how to surpass them. We are to be Christ-like and sometimes the truth might seem to hurt, but in the end, if accepted, it saves.

Look critically at yourself. Ur not perfect. I’m not perfect. Shins not perfect. We know. We all have our own struggles, addiction, sins to overcome and we should try to deal respectfully with those who try to help, as hard as it might be.

I’d pray to PAdre Pio. Jesus gave him the gift of reading souls. Jesus gave Padre Pio as a gift to his community. Ask Jesus to show you the bare state of your heart and pray that you might see this and know that through Jesus it will be repaired.

God Bless
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I am rather poor at times at empathizing with people’s feelings, quite true, I apologize for that. So I’ll sign off on this one at that!
 
Shin said:
I am rather poor at times at empathizing with people’s feelings, quite true, I apologize for that. So I’ll sign off on this one at that!
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?? Maybe I am, I was supporting you. I thought that the way u said it made more sense than what I was righting…If there was a thumbs up option u’d have gotten it 😉 don’t apologize, you did nothing wrong
 
Eh, I could’ve put it all more gently in retrospect.

You nicely clarified things though thank you. 🙂
 
Asker20 said:
Hi everybody–

This is a concept of Jesus I have been struggling with–when we read the Gospels we see that Jesus was forgiving and he loved the sinners and he condemned the Pharisees for casting out the sinners. But we are supposed to believe that when we get to the judgment day that Jesus will condemn us for our sins and not forgive us. What is up with that?? He taught forgiveness, so why won’t He forgive us when we are judged? I’m not talking about the atheists who rejected Him–but why wouldn’t He forgive somebody who masturbated, got drunk, had pre-marital sex, etc? Wouldn’t He be as bad as the Pharisees if he basically stoned us instead of forgiving us?? He forgave us while He was on Earth so why wouldn’t He forgive us on judgment day??

Your opinions are appreciated…

Thanks
Click to expand...
Hey Asker:
i feel ya man and i’ll try to help ya out here. i think you’re mixed up because you’ve been trying to get your answer from men and its really in the bible. Remember in Jn. 3:16 Jesus says those who believe are not condemned (judged). Why not? Because our sin has already been judged at the cross! Most people fail to understand this. No court can judge a thing twice. You only get one shot at it. Once you repent, sin is over and done with. Some will of course tell you that only counts for your past sins and not the future ones. But guess what? At the cross, ALL your sins were future! The one who the Son sets free is free indeed! You are trully free, man! Tell that to the devil!
 
Kalos said:
Hey Asker:
i feel ya man and i’ll try to help ya out here. i think you’re mixed up because you’ve been trying to get your answer from men and its really in the bible. Remember in Jn. 3:16 Jesus says those who believe are not condemned (judged). Why not? Because our sin has already been judged at the cross! Most people fail to understand this. No court can judge a thing twice. You only get one shot at it. Once you repent, sin is over and done with. Some will of course tell you that only counts for your past sins and not the future ones. But guess what? At the cross, ALL your sins were future! The one who the Son sets free is free indeed! You are trully free, man! Tell that to the devil!
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‘Whatsoever you do to the least of these, my brethren, that you do to me’. People are punished for what they do and didn’t do. Jesus didn’t say ‘except if you do it or fail to do it to them AFTER I’m dead, because then all bets are off and I’ve bought you all a one-way ticket to heaven no matter what you do.’ :rolleyes:

And tell me, where is there room in your ‘theology’ for the fear and trembling that Paul speaks of in regard to his own salvation? The attitude of ‘I pummel my body and subdue it, lest I MYSELF BE DISQUALIFIED’. Surely if anyone’s salvation was assured it was Paul’s, so why does he speak of fear, trembling, and disqualification for himself?

More importantly, where is there room in your ‘theology’ for Hell to even be a reality for mankind? I mean if Jesus did away with all sin at the Cross?
 
Asker20 said:
Hi everybody–

This is a concept of Jesus I have been struggling with–when we read the Gospels we see that Jesus was forgiving and he loved the sinners and he condemned the Pharisees for casting out the sinners. But we are supposed to believe that when we get to the judgment day that Jesus will condemn us for our sins and not forgive us. What is up with that?? He taught forgiveness, so why won’t He forgive us when we are judged? I’m not talking about the atheists who rejected Him–but why wouldn’t He forgive somebody who masturbated, got drunk, had pre-marital sex, etc? Wouldn’t He be as bad as the Pharisees if he basically stoned us instead of forgiving us?? He forgave us while He was on Earth so why wouldn’t He forgive us on judgment day??

Your opinions are appreciated…

Thanks
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No one besides God knows who will or won’t go to heaven, purgatory (postponed heaven), or hell. Only He knows what’s in your heart, and only He knows His full intentions. Church doctrine provides “safe harbors” for you if you’re able to follow it, but God can forgive you even if you aren’t able to follow it, if that is His wish.

When I was a teen, I tried and tried to stop masturbating for good. I kept a record to see how long I could remain “pure.” I didn’t succeed, however, and felt miserable and depressed.

Now I’m middle-aged and married, and avoiding masturbation is easy. It’s hard for me even to remember what it was like to have a teenage sex drive. So I guess my take-away is that you should try to maintain perspective, and don’t let the difficulties posed by some of the Church’s teachings drive you away from your faith.

.
 
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