This was no insult to Islam

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fergal
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Fergal

Guest
The Pope’s widely condemned remarks on Islam are actually enlightened, says Andrew Brown thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=1&subID=751

Here we go again: angry Muslims are demanding that a Western intellectual apologise for daring to suggest that Islam spreads itself by force.

This time, though, the intellectual is the Pope. In a talk to the faculty of the University of Regensburg – the sort of audience he finds most congenial – Pope Benedict XVI quoted a Byzantine Emperor as condemning Mohammed “with startling brusqueness”. Though, the Pope said, the Emperor Michael Paleologos II must have known the Koranic injunction that there should be no compulsion in matters of religion, the Emperor also told a Muslim general, “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

Taken in context, or at any other time, these remarks would be universally hailed as enlightened. The Pope is claiming that forcible conversion is contrary to God’s nature. He goes on to quote more of the Emperor’s dialogue: “Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”

Calling this “an insult to Islam” or to the Prophet is simply an exercise in bullying and stupidity. The most surreal sight of all is that of Turkish Muslim officials demanding that Pope Benedict apologise for suggesting that Islam is spread by the sword. For why are Turkey’s highest religious officials Muslims? Because, roughly 50 years after the Emperor, besieged in Constantinople, set down his account of these theological discussions, Constantinople fell and became Istanbul.
 
I don’t think the Pope should apologize. What he said is true. Islam brought nothing but violence since its beginning. Mohammed himself took part in it.

Religion of Peace. Oh please. Islam is not the religion of peace, as it claim.
 
I doubt highly that the Pope will apologize, but he will likely try to continue to get the full message out of what he was trying to emphasize by using this quotation.

The Muslims need to stop whining and start reading for themselves what was said in context instead of being fed from the breast of their Imams and political parties.
 
The Pope said nothing to apologize for.

The fact that Holy Father is cast as being insulting is the only insult.

I want them to apologize for the accusation. I won’t hold my breath.
 
There is a saying that I heard once that goes:

“If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs the one that yelps is the one that got hit.”

Plus, it is not as if the quoted Emperor was wrong.
 
Pope is an intellectual man. I’m sure he had assessed all avenues regarding Islamic religion before quoting the emperor’s remark.

Those who expect an apology will be disappointed.

The remark of the emperor happened in the 14th century. It’s been 7 centuries since. Can anyone claim that the world’s perception of Islamic religion has changed in this day and age…peace or violence?

If the Muslims are not happy with the Pope’s qoute, they should put their energy to use by changing the bad perception of their religion instead of whining and getting violent.

They did have all the time in the world to make it so.
 
I have always noticed that in general when Christians feel threatened and under attack they respond with forgivness and quiet.
When Muslims feel threatened and under attack they get angry and threaten violence and trouble.

Now that for me really underpins the difference in the two religions.
 
Fergal said:
I have always noticed that in general when Christians feel threatened and under attack they respond with forgivness and quiet.
When Muslims feel threatened and under attack they get angry and threaten violence and trouble.

Now that for me really underpins the difference in the two religions.
Click to expand...
Islam encourages the human inclination to react to perceived insult with anger and violence. Christ taught us something very difficult to do, which is turn the other cheek. These is not something that is instinctual in a human being and is one of the clear examples of how Christ’s teachings are God’s ways and how Muhammed’s came from some darker source.
 
Fergal said:
. . . When Muslims feel threatened and under attack they get angry and threaten violence and trouble.
Code: 
    . . .
Click to expand...
Especially when they are accused of advocating and fostering violence.
 
I agree that the Pope should not apologize. I am glad that he is speaking clearly on these issues. It seems to me that everyone else is too afraid.

I was actually surprised that one of my coworkers (someone who is extremely liberal and doesn’t agree with what most of the Church, or Christianity in general, teaches) defended the Pope’s comments this morning. Made me smile. 🙂
 
SeattleCatholic said:
I agree that the Pope should not apologize. I am glad that he is speaking clearly on these issues. It seems to me that everyone else is too afraid.

I was actually surprised that one of my coworkers (someone who is extremely liberal and doesn’t agree with what most of the Church, or Christianity in general, teaches) defended the Pope’s comments this morning. Made me smile. 🙂
Click to expand...
Thats awesome!! especially for Seattle:thumbsup:
 
Fergal said:
I have always noticed that in general when Christians feel threatened and under attack they respond with forgivness and quiet.
When Muslims feel threatened and under attack they get angry and threaten violence and trouble.

Now that for me really underpins the difference in the two religions.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I thought of today when I heard the story on NPR. I just can’t understand this whole “religion of peace” thing when any discussion of Islam is greeted with anger and violence.
 
aurora77 said:
This is exactly what I thought of today when I heard the story on NPR. I just can’t understand this whole “religion of peace” thing when any discussion of Islam is greeted with anger and violence.
Click to expand...
I wonder how a religion can truly be peaceful when it has terms like* jihad*, fatwah and infidel in its theology.
 
When Pakistan repeals it’s so called blasphemy laws that have been used to persecute and murder Christians. When Turkey finally gives the Catholic Church legal status and rights and priests stop being stabbed. When Egypt gives Copts full and equal rights. Need I go on? Then maybe the Pope should apologize. Otherwise he should tell them to read what he said and reflect on it. Apologizing only feeds the beast. They should be apologizing to us. But they never do no matter what atrocity is perpetrated. Listen to their leaders and the name-calling. The Pope is right. They need to incorporate right reason into their faith and foreswear violence. I want to hear the Muslims say they are sorry for once. It’s their turn.
 
Don’t you know that it is wrong to say “The Emperor (Muslims) wears no clothes!”

Glad to see you back, Father!
 
The irony of the thing is that the Muslim response in this case clearly proves the quotation that is being denounced!
 
My mother was saying to me, “You know, John Paul would not have made that quote” (of course, she was watching Brian Williams take on it which did not use the complete context). She’s nearly 80 now, and she is afraid of a world which has grown so scary in her lifetime. She’s always been a peacemaker, she’s always accepted things, backed down, made nice. She’s brought me up that way too, but I was telling her, “You know, mom, the trouble is that after these last few decades where nobody has DARED to speak as though there was an absolute truth, lest they offend the feelings of others, people have gotten conditioned to feel that the only way to get peace is to just let the loudest voices and the biggest guns have their way. And that’s why the loud voices and big guns think they can get away, quite literally, with murder. The only way this is going to stop is that while we continue to emulate Jesus by turning the other cheek to violence ourselves, we have to start doing something we should have been doing along WITH that. . .we have to tell the truth, without fear.” Otherwise, all we are doing is hiding our heads in the sand and letting our lives and our faith be manipulated so that in the end, by attempting to please and placate EVERYBODY, we will have pleased NOBODY, ESPECIALLY ALMIGHTY GOD.
 
Shame on the Muslim at-large, for not finding out the truth of what the Pope actually said. Instead they seem happy to nurse at the breast of Imams and Islamo-fascist politicians who intentionally inflame their flock and citizens.
 
There is an article by a Thompson on www.telegraph.co.uk that I think hits the nail on the head. Look under the main story.

Speaking of emperors.Maybe we should ask the current Emperor of Byzantium what he thinks? No, wait. Wasn’t the last Byzantine Emperor killed when the Muslims seized and pillaged Constantinople? Couldn’t be since jihad doesn’t mean violence, right? Even one of the books I read at a local mosque admitted that the primary meaning of jihad was indeed holy war. It also had some nasty things to say about Christianity and Christians. How did I respond? With violence? Nope, I shook my head and walked away.

The real problem here is that the Pope finally named the elephant in the living room. This terrifies the liberals who want to ignore it and enrages the Islamicists who are counting on us ignoring it. We may finally have a chance of a real dialogue. If the Muslims will finally take off the blinders and join in rationally.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top