Thomas Aquinas and the Extermination of Protestants

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Aquinas isn’t official church doctrine. He was expressing the common view in the 13th century. I think it’s an evil view, and that the Catholic Church’s having held to it is a serious mark against the Catholic Church’s claims. But anyone who says that this is the permanent, current teaching of the Catholic Church is laughably ignorant.
times have changed. heresy was punished by the state and not the church. you have to understand thomas aquinas in context to the times. in catholic europe, heresy or beliefs were looked at as not only deadly to the soul, but also harmful to society- which it was.

look at the violence after the reformation and the enligtenment or the nazis and communist in the 20th century. all of these belifes had violent concequences. now today, in our pluralistic society, we let people believe what they want, but not always act on it, even if it is part of their faith. for example, no plural marriages.

so i don’t see any difference in how england killed catholics for “treason” or the state killing cathars for heresy. the reason is the same, for the good of society. today, with modern technology we don’t have to resort to these extremes.
 
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Sacramentalist:
Problem is, this is not the “opinion” of Aquinas, but was the teaching of the Church for well over a thousand years. Popes and Councils frequenly condemned the idea that heretics cannot be put to death for their heresies.

At the very least, this was a doctrine of the Ordinary Magisterium,as much as the Church’s prohibition of contraception and abortion.
Excuse me? A doctrine? This is not a doctrine, it is just a strategy used to combat heresy and punish heretics. It was obviously wrong, and condemned by the current magestrium. We are only to excommunicate heretics, pray for them, hope for them to recant, and their punishment is in the afterlife.
 
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ICXCNIKA:
The following was posted in another message board. Can anyone help with how to counter this. The argument is that Aquinas supports the extermination of Protestants and that this is official Church doctrine because of Aquinas’ position.

Any help is appreciated.

Summa Theologica of Thomas Aquinas, vol. iv., p. 90:

“Though heretics (Protestants) must not be tolerated because they deserve it, we must bear with them till, by the second admonition, they may be brought back to the faith of the church. But those who, after a second admonition, remain obstinate to their errors, must not only be excommunicated, but they must be delivered to the secular power to be EXTERMINATED.”
**It’s obsurd to say that St. Thomas Aquinas supported the extermination of protestants. Protestantism did not exist yet when Thomas Aquinas was around. He died in 1274. The types of heresies that were around back then, is not the same as what protestants believed. Protestants believe in many orthodox doctrines and they try to follow the Bible to the best of their understanding. Clearly this is a protestant translation of St. Thomas Aquinas’s work. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in Latin and the word “exterminated” maybe a translation of a more broader latin word for punishment. If he did mean “exterminate” as in kill, he was obviously mistaken in thinking that it was justified to use the death penalty on heretics. (Well, unless those heretics believed in cannibalism, abortion, suicide, and euthenasia).:eek: **
 
oat soda:
times have changed. heresy was punished by the state and not the church.
True, but the Church supported it, and the Church’s courts condemned heretics and handed them over to the state.
oat soda:
you have to understand thomas aquinas in context to the times. in catholic europe, heresy or beliefs were looked at as not only deadly to the soul, but also harmful to society- which it was.
So were they right or wrong in executing heretics? What do “the times” have to do with it? They thought heresy was harmful to society. You agree with them. So what exactly does the difference in era have to do with it? You haven’t pointed out how you differ from 13th-century Christians.

I think that the “difference of times” excuse doesn’t work precisely because I agree that heresy is dangerous to society. What we have learned, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, is that as Christians we must not on any account invoke the coercive force of the State to fight heresy. When we do this we become tools of Antichrist.
oat soda:
so i don’t see any difference in how england killed catholics for “treason” or the state killing cathars for heresy. the reason is the same, for the good of society. today, with modern technology we don’t have to resort to these extremes.
OK, I can see the logic of that argument, though I think it’s horribly insufficient. However, even if you don’t recognize a difference between heresy and treason, the difference remains as a historical fact. The charges were different, with different punishments. Protestant governments did occasionally execute people for heresy, but as far as I know they were always more radical Protestants. So these governments did recognize a difference between the kind of threat represented by Catholics and the kind represented by radical Protestants.

Edwin
 
For what it’s worth, with regard to the initial point: the 17th-century Scottish Presbyterian theologian Samuel Rutherford (highly regarded by many evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants for his resistance to episcopalianism as well as for his deeply spiritual letters) also used the term “exterminate”–about Catholics. (He said that Papists should be “exterminated” from the country.)

Edwin
 
But the fact is that the charge brought against the Catholic martyrs was treason, not heresy.
And they were considered treasonous due to their “heretical” views. What’s your point? That’s not different from how the secular powers viewed heretics in Aquinas’ day. In any state in which the faith has a place in political power, deviation from that faith is treason, and that’s precisely why the governments put heretics to death in the centuries before and after the Protestant uprising.

In Catholic countries the Church did not try forgers, and the state did not try heretics, but both crimes resulted in the same punishment by the state due to the nature of the crimes against the state. This is why it’s often stressed that the Church did not actually put anyone to death; it simply handed the “faith traitors” over to the state to be dealt with as the “secular traitors”.
 
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Ghosty:
And they were considered treasonous due to their “heretical” views.
No, they weren’t. Treason was treason, and heresy was heresy. Do you really think that 16th-century people didn’t have reasons for making the distinctions they did? Catholics were not asked whether they believed in the Real Presence. They were executed for allegedly being loyal to a foreign ruler. This is still religious persecution, and they are still martyrs, but it’s significantly different from executing someone for their views on the Real Presence or justification by faith or so on.
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Ghosty:
That’s not different from how the secular powers viewed heretics in Aquinas’ day. In any state in which the faith has a place in political power, deviation from that faith is treason, and that’s precisely why the governments put heretics to death in the centuries before and after the Protestant uprising.
No. Heresy was not identified with treason. The comparison Aquinas makes is with forgery, not treason, and it’s a comparison, not an identification. Furthermore, many governments, for reasons of compassion or practical politics, took a much gentler view, restricting the public worship of other Christian groups but not trying to wipe them out (this more moderate approach is the way Aquinas thought non-Christians should be treated).
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Ghosty:
In Catholic countries the Church did not try forgers, and the state did not try heretics, but both crimes resulted in the same punishment by the state due to the nature of the crimes against the state.
Granted that church and state were not separated as they are today, they were distinguished, and heresy was a crime primarily against the Church–which is why the Church tried heretics and handed them over to the state for punishment. Sure, heresy was seen as a threat to the state as well. But (precisely because of the vital importance of true religion for civic order) the state had the responsibility of punishing those who offended against the Church.
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Ghosty:
This is why it’s often stressed that the Church did not actually put anyone to death; it simply handed the “faith traitors” over to the state to be dealt with as the “secular traitors”.
The Church did not put anyone to death because the Church did not believe that it was allowed to wield the sword of temporal power on its own behalf. Exercising the death penalty was recognized to be incompatible with the nature of the Church. The practice of “relaxing” heretics was of course a flimsy bit of hypocrisy. But hypocrisy is often the last vestige of an uncomfortable principle–so here.

Edwin
 
I think I might be off on this, but wasn’t Aquinas against the Immaculate Conception, but later on this was declared a dogma, thus showing that not everything that Aquinas taught is considered doctrine?
 
This is still religious persecution, and they are still martyrs, but it’s significantly different from executing someone for their views on the Real Presence or justification by faith or so on.
Actually, it’s not. Submitting to the Pope is a religious requirement for Catholics, it’s a doctrine of the faith just as much as the Real Presence. They were not raising armies against the English monarchy, they were simply making the point that the Church is headed by the Pope, not the King of England. If submitting to the Pope was an act of treason, why wasn’t it considered treasonous prior to Henry VIII spliting with the Church over doctrine? Why did common, everyday assumptions suddenly become treason when the nation became Protestant?

The reason heretics were considered enemies of the state in Aquinas’ time was precisely because the state’s authority was said to come from God, not from man. To reject God was, de facto, to reject the state. In fact, it usually worked out to be much more than just mental rejection, but actual outright rebellion, as can be seen in the Albigensian Heresy. This is no different than what happened in England when Catholics refused to abandon the Pope as directed by the monarchy; they were staying loyal to their faith, and were persecuted for it. To reduce it to “mere politics” is to utterly ignore the fundamentals of the Catholic faith.
The comparison Aquinas makes is with forgery, not treason, and it’s a comparison, not an identification.
You don’t seem to understand the implications of forgery of money, then. Money, in those days as well as in the modern U.S., was minted under government authority, and was valued according to government fiat. To forge it was to commit treason against the monarchy by usurping its authority. When you forge money, you are essentially saying “I am the king, and I say this money is good”. That is treason; kings weren’t simply putting people to death for wanting to better their material lives.
But (precisely because of the vital importance of true religion for civic order) the state had the responsibility of punishing those who offended against the Church.
I’m afraid this completely ignores the European understanding of monarchy, which is often summed up under the term “Divine Right of Kings”. A king, in the European mind, was someone vested with temporal authority by God Himself. The Holy Roman Emperor (Eastern France and Germany) was even crowned by the Pope in person; an attack on the authority of Church was* by definition* an attack on the king, since the king was legitimized by Church recognition. Heresy and forgery of money (minting money was done only by the authority of the crown) were both then seen as undermining the rule of the monarchy, and punishable by death as treason. After all, you can’t very well be a loyal subject to a king crowned by the authority of the Pope if you reject the very authority of said Pope.
The Church did not put anyone to death because the Church did not believe that it was allowed to wield the sword of temporal power on its own behalf. Exercising the death penalty was recognized to be incompatible with the nature of the Church. The practice of “relaxing” heretics was of course a flimsy bit of hypocrisy. But hypocrisy is often the last vestige of an uncomfortable principle–so here.
And had it not been considered treason by the temporal powers, the heretics likely never would have been put to death at all, as can be seen in all countries in which the ruling power does not derive its authority from the Church. In those days, the state simply recognized the spiritual authority of the Church to determine heresy, and the Church simply recognized the temporal authority of the government to protect itself from threats. In those times, in Europe, heresy nicely overlapped into both realms of authority. In times when temporal authority was not so closely connected with the Church, heretics were simply outcast, as can be seen in the time of Paul’s writings to Corinth, and the period between the Apostles and the conversion of Rome.

Basically all Aquinas was arguing for was moral consistancy. If a person who forges money is considered a traitor to the crown, and a danger to society by virtue of usurping the crown’s authority, than how much more is a traitor to the faith, which gives the crown that authority, a threat?

In places and ages in which the authority of the government is not based on Church approval, or when treason is not considered punishable by death, Aquinas’ point is irrelevant. That’s why his point is conditional, and his argument is hedged in very conditional terms such as forgery being treason.
 
First off, note that Aquinas says that even forgers of money were executed back then.

Back then, when there weren’t a lot of good prisons, they executed practically every criminal.

Nowadays we generally think it should only be done for murder, and only then if there is no good way to stop them from harming more people…a situation very rare.

But heresy could kill the soul, so these people were very dangerous indeed.

But notice that the Church never killed them. They handed them over to secular powers.

The Church, the Spiritual Authority and Community, inflicted a spiritual punishment: it excommunicated them from the Church.

The secular powers, with their temporal authority, inflict the temporal punishment.

Back then the stability of many countries in Europe depended on a close alliance between Church and state, and a universal religion. So heresy was punished by death as a high crime against the public good.

Though to punish all these crimes by death, even when there were perhaps other ways to contain the people, was regrettable and extravagent.

But the system of a close alliance between Church and State was not wrong. It was simply one model, not essential to either Church or State, that worked for the time.

The Church was not against religious freedom per se, however. Jews and others who were not Christian were not forced to convert. ONCE they had converted however, if they were found to have only done it for some social benefit, or went back on their baptismal promises, then they were punished…even as heretics today are excommunicated.

The State could also punish this by death, but that is the State’s problem.
 
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ICXCNIKA:
The following was posted in another message board. Can anyone help with how to counter this. The argument is that Aquinas supports the extermination of Protestants and that this is official Church doctrine because of Aquinas’ position.

Any help is appreciated.

Summa Theologica of Thomas Aquinas, vol. iv., p. 90:

“Though heretics (Protestants) must not be tolerated because they deserve it, we must bear with them till, by the second admonition, they may be brought back to the faith of the church. But those who, after a second admonition, remain obstinate to their errors, must not only be excommunicated, but they must be delivered to the secular power to be EXTERMINATED.”

Why should it need to be countered (apart from the gloss identifying heretics with Protestants) ?​

Extermination of (obstinate) heretics used to be unremarkable - like some other practices.

Coercion in Christianity for the sake of religious unity is far too large a subject to be dealt with briefly - & IMHO, it needs to be “countered” as much or as little as his ideas about women, or the location of the earthly paradise, or other things which form no part of authentic Catholic teaching. ##
 
👍 I would just like to say that I love to see our separated episcopal bretheren conversing with us. I pray for the day we are all united in the one true church!
In my humble opinion the word heretic would only have applied to the first generation of protestants, that is those protestants who left the catholic church to pursue their heresy. This I think is apparent in the current definition of a heretic which is found in canon law 751 which defines a heretic as any baptised catholic who obstinately refuses to accept some part of catholic teaching. This could only be applied to the first generation of protestants; their children would not be considered heretics by this definition because they were taught it by their parents. The executions of heretics was based on the belief that these people were dragging souls to damnation. If you believe this then it is logical to want to remove this person or persons from your vicinity and the vicinity of those you care about. In my opinion anyone who poses an eminent threat to another’s salvation ought to be stopped; it would be immoral not to try to stop them. These days we don’t see protestantism as such a huge threat. This is due to the view that protestants can get to heaven. Heck its even possible for a heretic to get to heaven (though probably not easy) so we have a relaxed veiw of heresy now which has lead to less of a desire to want to eliminate the threat of heresy by execution, after all an executed heretic can’t recant. And, to reiterate other people’s too true point, Aquinas was not pope so this should not be seen as the Catholic Church advocating murder.
 
Verbum Caro:
ICXCNIKA,
  1. you know you are in trouble when someone quotes Aquinas with the citation “volume 4, page 90” 😉
😃
Verbum Caro:
  1. along with the admirable explanations from my fellow posters, this article Aquinas and the Heretics from First Things magazine is required reading firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9512/articles/novak.html
I enjoyed it anyway.
VC
I remember that article. Good stuff. you’re right–REQUIRED READING. But—hey, we don’t want to put any truth and historical accuracy into an argument about this—while Protestants are BEING PERSECUTED!!! :eek: Whoops! Phone just rang—I gotta go down the street and “take care of” a coupla pesky Presbyterians. Ahhh, the things I gotta do for The Church. 😉
 
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Sacramentalist:
Problem is, this is not the “opinion” of Aquinas, but was the teaching of the Church for well over a thousand years. Popes and Councils frequenly condemned the idea that heretics cannot be put to death for their heresies.

At the very least, this was a doctrine of the Ordinary Magisterium,as much as the Church’s prohibition of contraception and abortion.
Oh my! So you equate the alleged sanctioning of killing herectics with the prohibition of Contraception and Abortion? Thats quite a stretch isnt it?

I dont recall ever reading where it was official Church Doctrine to kill heretics but then again in over 2,000 years i suspect it is inevitable that some nasty things were done in the name of the Church. Hopefully, however, you are not suggesting that we can ignore the Churchs teachings now because some people did some bad thigs in their name in the past?
 
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Sacramentalist:
Problem is, this is not the “opinion” of Aquinas, but was the teaching of the Church for well over a thousand years. Popes and Councils frequenly condemned the idea that heretics cannot be put to death for their heresies.

At the very least, this was a doctrine of the Ordinary Magisterium,as much as the Church’s prohibition of contraception and abortion.

The Church did not begin to execute heretics until the 13th century. The earliest instance of death as the punishment for heresy was a lynching in 1022 - Priscillian in 385 was not executed for heresy, but for some political offence: the Bishop of Rome, like St. Martin of Tours, protested.​

There may well be a case for an Inquisition - IMO there needs to be one; that doesn’t mean there is a case for the death penalty for heresy.

Unfortunately, the Church has got herself into a tangle - if it is not against the Will of the Holy Spirit to burn heretics, then suspicions that the Church has not really changed her attitude to Protestants are justified. And Vatican II becomes a massive charade, all on purpose to lull the gullible into thinking Rome has ceased to be bloodthirsty and tyrannical; for that is just what many Protestants fear - that the whole thing, all the ecumenism, all the friendship, are a gigantic fraud, and that if they cease to be vigilant against the Roman “Great Satan”, they will be destroyed.

That, is why so much of what we say falls on deaf ears - people do not trust the Church not to lie and deceive and temporise and to bully the weak & flatter the strong until it is free to kill and murder Protestants. That’s why so many people believe Jack Chick: he is voicing the fears & suspicions of a lot of people. If there is even the tiniest germ of justification in these fears, then we will get nowhere - the Church has to be able to show that she is not practicing deceit; that she is not going to hurt even a single Protestant. Our good behaviour is not enough - we can always be dismissed as dupes who are being manipulated by Roman propaganda. ##
 
Sorry to throw a big damper on things, folks, but “exterminate” back then didn’t mean what “exterminate” means today.

The Latin “exterminare” in Medieval usage meant to drive out, banish, or exile. It did not mean what “exterminate” means today: “to get rid of completely, usually by killing off” (Webster’s).
 
Karl Keating:
Sorry to throw a big damper on things, folks, but “exterminate” back then didn’t mean what “exterminate” means today.

The Latin “exterminare” in Medieval usage meant to drive out, banish, or exile. It did not mean what “exterminate” means today: “to get rid of completely, usually by killing off” (Webster’s).
That explains exterminare, and thank you for that. My Latin isn’t what it used to be. OK, I admit it, my Latin never *was. *However, you failed to explain “death”, as in “put to death” in the following quote:

**“For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death.” **

…which somebody was kind enough to quote above, and which I am borrowing from. Please forgive me, if I am throwing a damper on things.
 
mhansen said:
**“For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death.” **

Looks like he is asserting that heretics are more dangerous to society than forgers of money. Nothing more.
 
Verbum Caro:
ICXCNIKA,
  1. you know you are in trouble when someone quotes Aquinas with the citation “volume 4, page 90” 😉
  2. along with the admirable explanations from my fellow posters, this article Aquinas and the Heretics from First Things magazine is required reading firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9512/articles/novak.html
I enjoyed it anyway.
VC
Just wanted to second this post. That is a great article and must reading if you really want to discuss this issue.

Of course, it might do away with the ability to cry “Persecuted!!!” by protestants who only wish to use whatever topic they can to slam The Church.

The author of the passage in the leading post gives himself away when referring to “Protestants” as if St. Thomas was out gunning for them 200 years before they were around. 😉
 
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