Thomas Aquinas

[bolinstephen]

I have said on a previous tread that I have never been a big fan of Aquinas. As much as I love tangents, I suppose we should start a new tread.

For me, it goes deeper than “not being a fan.” I know Aquinas is a genius and a Doctor of the Church and all, but I have some theological issues with him.

Aside from his apparent anti-Semitism that we discussed in the previous tread, I think he preserved too much of his moral teaching from Aristotle and didn’t quite grasp the significance of the incarnation on moral theology. I also think, in accordance with his Aristotelian roots, he places too much of an emphasis on Natural Theology with his “five ways.”

I think truth and morality are grounded in the person of Jesus Christ and Aquinas did not quite grasp that. He grounded his theological knowledge in his five ways of knowing God’s existence and he grounded his moral teachings, not in the person of Christ, but in Aristotelian virtue theory. Am I wrong on this?

 

[bolinstephen]

That participating in the lighting of a menorah would be, at best, unwise. Especially for a Catholic Cardinal. I’m not sure why this is even slightly controversial on a Catholic forum.

It is controversial because in lighting the menorah we celebrate the faithfulness of God to the Jewish people. It is controversial because of what the Catechism says about our relationship to the Jewish people. It is controversial because of what St. Paul writes about the Jewish people in Romans 9, 10 & 11.

I support the council of Jerusalem whole-hertadly. We do not have to be Jews before we become Christians. But by becoming Christians we fulfill the promises to the Jewish nation. We can not as Christians forget where the Gospel came from. We can not forget that yes, we Christians were once slaves in Egypt and now we are free through the new Exodus, Baptism.

I know I am in the minority.

 

[JReducation]

It is controversial because in lighting the menorah we celebrate the faithfulness of God to the Jewish people. It is controversial because of what the Catechism says about our relationship to the Jewish people.

The Catechism says that the Jewish people are our older brothers and sisters in the faith. It says nothing negative about them.

It is controversial because of what St. Paul writes about the Jewish people in Romans 9, 10 & 11.

St. Paul’s statement in this verse has to be taken with correct exegesis. He is not referring to the Jewish people. He’s referring to the leadership involved in the scandal of the cross.

There is nothing wrong with lighting a Menorah if one remembers what it commemorates. It is the opening of the Feast of Light, an event that hopefully Catholics also believe happened. If we don’t believe it, then we’re in serious trouble with regards to the OT.

I think that we need to give up trying to impose our beliefs on our hierarchy. It’s getting out of hand. It’s almost as if we were creating a Magisterium of the Laity, actually two Magisterium of the Laity, a traditionalist and a liberal. Neither has the right to exist.

 

[Jade_Tiger]

I think that we need to give up trying to impose our beliefs on our hierarchy. It’s getting out of hand. It’s almost as if we were creating a Magisterium of the Laity, actually two Magisterium of the Laity, a traditionalist and a liberal. Neither has the right to exist.

AMEN.

 

[TimSpalding]

That participating in the lighting of a menorah would be, at best, unwise. Especially for a Catholic Cardinal. I’m not sure why this is even slightly controversial on a Catholic forum.

Maybe it’s because Pope Benedict has lit a menorah, not to mention any number of cardinals (eg., Dolan, O’Malley, etc.) You can Google pictures of them and others easily. Various “traditionalist” heretics tally every photo they can find of such things.

Oh, and Jesus was knocking about the temple during Hanukkah (John 10:22ff, a remarkable detail considering the relative unimportance of the holiday). It’s unlikely he was there to protest. One would think that, when our Lord did it, THAT wouldn’t be controversial in a Catholic forum.

 

[bolinstephen]

I completely support Cardinals and Popes celebrating various Jewish ceremonies. Other people were not. Other people quotes Aquinas saying that it was a mortal sin to participate in a Jewish ceremony.

St. Paul’s statement in this verse has to be taken with correct exegesis. He is not referring to the Jewish people. He’s referring to the leadership involved in the scandal of the cross…

I think that we need to give up trying to impose our beliefs on our hierarchy. It’s getting out of hand. It’s almost as if we were creating a Magisterium of the Laity, actually two Magisterium of the Laity, a traditionalist and a liberal. Neither has the right to exist.

I was not the one who said St. Paul’s statements, applied, the Catechism itself said so:

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.” The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God."The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,"for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

I think that in essentials we need to have unity and in non-essentials we need to have freedom. We, the “majestarium of the laity” as a couple of you wanted to call us, have the complete freedom to debate and discuss all of these ideas with no fear of being irreverent. With all due respect, brother, I think it is you who is being irreverent in trying to stifle this conversation by saying the laity is unqualified in discussing these matters. That goes against everything I think Catholic Answers stands for.

My questions remain:

1. 
   *]Do you agree/disagree with Aquinas saying that participation in Jewish ceremonies is a mortal sin, or a sin at all?
   *]Do you agree/disagree that Aquinas takes too much of his moral theology from Aristotle?
   *]Do you agree/disagree that Aquinas takes too much of his theology from natural theology?

 

[clem456]

1. 
   *]Do you agree/disagree with Aquinas saying that participation in Jewish ceremonies is a mortal sin, or a sin at all?
   *]Do you agree/disagree that Aquinas takes too much of his moral theology from Aristotle?
   *]Do you agree/disagree that Aquinas takes too much of his theology from natural theology?

1. 
   Is that what he actually says? If so, is it doctrine? If so, does it apply in this situation?