Thomas Merton

[Luigi_Daniele]

There is one user, bmonk, who is Benedictine. That is the only contemplative I know who comes here. Brother David (O. Carm) of blessed memory used to come here but the good theif came and took him home to the Lord.

-Tim-

Oh, no! I did not know this. I am deeply, deeply saddened. Eternal rest grant unto Brother David, o Lord. May the Perpetual Light shine upon him. May he rest in peace.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

TimothyH;

Not all contemplatives are monks and nuns, many are lay people and several use to come into this forum, but no longer do. I still correspond with them.

Jim

Sounds like my kind of people but I can see how the internet can be a great distraction even on a Catholic forum.

 

[Pitcharan]

I am anot even sure there is much of a risk as long as we are well grounded in our own tradition. Then we can appreciate what truth there might be in other traditions. Christ brings all things together in Himself.

‘Elect’ and ‘well grounded’ mean the same thing. Jesus would not have forewarned if there was NO risk.

“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” (Matt 24:24)

 

[JimR-OCDS]

‘Elect’ and ‘well grounded’ mean the same thing. Jesus would not have forewarned if there was NO risk.

“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” (Matt 24:24)

So, in the context of this thread, you’re calling Thomas Merton a false prophet of some sort ?

Then the Church should pull all the imprimaturs from his works and condemn them, for all the people who read them and came to Christ through them, were deceived by the devil.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

‘Elect’ and ‘well grounded’ mean the same thing. Jesus would not have forewarned if there was NO risk.

“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” (Matt 24:24)

23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24

I am not hearing anyone talking “Messiah”.

 

[Deus_tecum]

suko

It’s why most contemplatives rarely come here.

I should follow their lead.

Jim

Merton would probably say you should still come here and look past the dissent, and love all these people not only for their benefit but for your own spiritual exercise and benefit.

 

[christofirst]

Merton would probably say you should still come here and look past the dissent, and love all these people not only for their benefit but for your own spiritual exercise and benefit.

I agree. For someone who felt called to a hermit’s life, Merton was certainly engaged with the world! Based on his great correspondence and numerous visitors, it is interesting to speculate on how he might have interacted with the wider world of cyberspace. I doubt he would have shunned it. Sensible limits, I suppose.

 

[Pitcharan]

So, in the context of this thread, you’re calling Thomas Merton a false prophet of some sort ?

Then the Church should pull all the imprimaturs from his works and condemn them, for all the people who read them and came to Christ through them, were deceived by the devil.

Jim

No, sorry; it was out of context. I was merely clarifying to Michael Mayo, that being well grounded in our faith, does not rule out risks. It is in that context I referred to deception of the elect.

 

[christofirst]

I do not doubt that those who offer warnings about Merton and others do so out of a real and loving concern. Sometimes, however, their message comes across in a very negative way, and sometimes I sense a feeling of paranoia, like the devil is lurking in every non-Catholic religion or practice. This latter fear I simply do not see in any recent official Church teaching, but rather the question we should ask is, “is this leading me closer to, or away from, the truth?”. The Church offers both encouragement and warnings when it comes to interreligious dialogue, and so I see no reason to ignore either one or the other. When I read Bede Griffiths, for example, I often think he pushes the envelope too far with some of his proposals, though I never doubt his sincerity. Yet to my knowledge, even he remained a Catholic in good standing, although some might not recognize this as so. The Church is large enough for so many, and no one who is not so inclined need concern themselves with interreligious dialogue all that much anyway.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Merton would probably say you should still come here and look past the dissent, and love all these people not only for their benefit but for your own spiritual exercise and benefit.

Yes, when we come here with open hearts and minds, but even Jesus got away from the crowds I’m sure the attacks by the Jewish Conservatives wore him down from time to time.

Also, when the same topics continue to be attacked, Thomas Merton being one of them, if silence is a stronger message than words, one should remain silent.

This thread began as a memorial to Thomas Merton’s passing.

Time to back to silence.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I do not doubt that those who offer warnings about Merton and others do so out of a real and loving concern. Sometimes, however, their message comes across in a very negative way, and sometimes I sense a feeling of paranoia, like the devil is lurking in every non-Catholic religion or practice. This latter fear I simply do not see in any recent official Church teaching, but rather the question we should ask is, “is this leading me closer to, or away from, the truth?”. The Church offers both encouragement and warnings when it comes to interreligious dialogue, and so I see no reason to ignore either one or the other. When I read Bede Griffiths, for example, I often think he pushes the envelope too far with some of his proposals, though I never doubt his sincerity. Yet to my knowledge, even he remained a Catholic in good standing, although some might not recognize this as so. The Church is large enough for so many, and no one who is not so inclined need concern themselves with interreligious dialogue all that much anyway.

I think intrelligious dialogue has as much to do with culture as it has “religion”. What we mean by certain terms, how we understand what its all about… The Roman Catholic Church has its roots in Europe. That involves a Western worldview and thinking. But if we hope for Christ to be known all over the world we will have to express our faith from other perspectives. It will help to look for analogies and common themes that make sense in other non European cultures.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Thoughts in Solitude p. 44 Ch IX
What does it mean to know and experience my own “nothingness”?

To really know our “nothingness” we must also love it. And we cannot love it unless we see that it is good. And we cannot see that it is good unless we accept it.

A supernatural experience of our contingency is a humility which loves and prizes above all else our state of moral and metaphysical helplessness before God.

And I find it liberating.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thoughts in Solitude p. 44 Ch IX
What does it mean to know and experience my own “nothingness”?

To really know our “nothingness” we must also love it. And we cannot love it unless we see that it is good. And we cannot see that it is good unless we accept it.

A supernatural experience of our contingency is a humility which loves and prizes above all else our state of moral and metaphysical helplessness before God.

And I find it liberating.

Thoughts in Solitude is one of my favorite Merton books.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Thoughts in Solitude is one of my favorite Merton books.

Jim

And from the thread on Contemplative prayer:

All interior prayer, no matter how simple it may be, requires the conversion of our whole self to God, and until this has been achieved - either actively by our own efforts or passively by the action of the Holy Spirit- we do not enter into “contemplation” and we cannot safely relax our efforts to establish contact with God.

If we try to contemplate God without having turned the face of our inner self entirely in His direction, we will end up inevitable by contemplating ourselves, and we will perhaps plunge into the abyss of warm darkness which is our own sensible nature. That is not a darkness in which one can safely remain passive.

On the other hand, if we depend too much on our imagination and emotions, we will not turn ourselves to God but will plunge into a riot of images and fabricate for ourselves our own home-made religious experience, and this too is perilous.

The “turning” of our whole self to God can be achieved only by deep and sincere and simple faith, enlivened by a hope which knows that contact with God is possible, and love which desires above all things to do His will. p. 49-50

Merton is just very good at talking about these very deep and spiritual things in a contemporary language not difficult to understand.

 

[christofirst]

Today would have been Thomas Merton’s 99th birthday. I wonder if there will be any special commemorations next year? I read *Thoughts In Solitude *in the Fall of 2009.

 

[clem456]

Thoughts in Solitude p. 44 Ch IX
What does it mean to know and experience my own “nothingness”?

To really know our “nothingness” we must also love it. And we cannot love it unless we see that it is good. And we cannot see that it is good unless we accept it.

A supernatural experience of our contingency is a humility which loves and prizes above all else our state of moral and metaphysical helplessness before God.

And I find it liberating.

It is liberating to know we are not God. There can’t be two after all, and God tells us he is The One. If we can’t accept the fact that he created us with limitations, life just ain’t gonna work very well. Because we try to do things we can’t do, say things we shouldn’t say, and be who we are not. Pride is really the root cause of all human misery, in my opinion. Our God given limitations should lead us to want God to complete us, not complete ourselves.

Many of the saints express this fundamental idea of knowing who we truly are, knowing who God is, and appreciating the difference. It always seemed to be to be very dour, to hear saints asking God for humiliations, and thanking him for them.
In this light though, it makes sense, as it opens up a place for God to move in,

 

[Michael_Mayo]

As we brace ourselves for another ice storm:

If we know how great is the love of Jesus for us
we will never be afraid to go to Him in all our poverty,
all our weakness, all our spiritual wretchedness and infirmity.

Indeed, when we understand the true nature of His love for us,
we will prefer to come to Him poor and helpless.

We will never be ashamed of our distress.
Distress is to our advantage when we have nothing to seek but mercy.

We can be glad of our helplessness
when we really believe that His power is made perfect in our infirmity. p 37

I am still working on that knowledge, understanding and belief and have a way to go

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Your life is shaped by the end you live for. You are made in the image of what you desire.p. 55

I am thinking that often we can be confused and our lives are shaped by what we think we desire. But our only true desire, the only thing that can finally gratify us for good, is the One who made us.

 

[clem456]

As we brace ourselves for another ice storm:

If we know how great is the love of Jesus for us
we will never be afraid to go to Him in all our poverty,
all our weakness, all our spiritual wretchedness and infirmity.

This knowing is hard for me to get hold of. It is not book knowledge. It is the more biblical concept of knowing. To become intimate with a person, Jesus Christ. This is the most elusive thing. I find that this knowing of Christ comes through other people, by listening to them, being generous with them, honoring them as if Christ were present. And I think the religious orders express this well through obedience.

I think the religious life that Merton lived has much to offer us in our time, timeless spiritual things that have been lost.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

This knowing is hard for me to get hold of. It is not book knowledge. It is the more biblical concept of knowing. To become intimate with a person, Jesus Christ. This is the most elusive thing. I find that this knowing of Christ comes through other people, by listening to them, being generous with them, honoring them as if Christ were present. And I think the religious orders express this well through obedience.

I think the religious life that Merton lived has much to offer us in our time, timeless spiritual things that have been lost.

Yes, he also says,

The time has come when we must go out of ourselves and above ourselves and find him no longer within us but outside us and above us. This we do first by arid faith, by a hope that burns like hot coals under the ashes of our poverty. We seek him also by humble charity, in service to our brothers [others]. Then, when God wills, He raises us up to himself in simplicity. p, 54

Can we think of our family, our parish, our work and our city as our monastery?